Random Deck of the Week Thread

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3drinks
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Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

This seems to not be gaining as much traction, hmm. Let's try to pick things up with a newer deck that has a lot of room for discussion and isn't nearly as solved.

[mention]3drinks[/mention]' Greven, Predator Captain Garbage In, Treasure Out. Also featured, since it's his thread and for discussion's sake anyway, [mention]darrenhabib[/mention]'s Version of Greven. Lots of discussion exists in the thread already and there's still - in my estimation - not an open & shut way to build this commander, at least not yet anyway. I've got my theories and philosophies, let's see what the community thinks!

Discussion will last through October 16th, 2019!

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Post by Cyberium » 4 years ago

3drinks wrote:
4 years ago
This seems to not be gaining as much traction, hmm. Let's try to pick things up with a newer deck that has a lot of room for discussion and isn't nearly as solved.

3drinks' Greven, Predator Captain Garbage In, Treasure Out. Also featured, since it's his thread and for discussion's sake anyway, darrenhabib's Version of Greven. Lots of discussion exists in the thread already and there's still - in my estimation - not an open & shut way to build this commander, at least not yet anyway. I've got my theories and philosophies, let's see what the community thinks!

Discussion will last through October 16th, 2019!
Are people discussing the deck here... or at the deck thread? ^_^ It seems like people went directly for the thread. :D

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Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

Cyberium wrote:
4 years ago
3drinks wrote:
4 years ago
This seems to not be gaining as much traction, hmm. Let's try to pick things up with a newer deck that has a lot of room for discussion and isn't nearly as solved.

3drinks' Greven, Predator Captain Garbage In, Treasure Out. Also featured, since it's his thread and for discussion's sake anyway, darrenhabib's Version of Greven. Lots of discussion exists in the thread already and there's still - in my estimation - not an open & shut way to build this commander, at least not yet anyway. I've got my theories and philosophies, let's see what the community thinks!

Discussion will last through October 16th, 2019!
Are people discussing the deck here... or at the deck thread? ^_^ It seems like people went directly for the thread. :D
I was just trying something to revive this thread. Seems it's waned from people's interests for a number if reasons I h.g event pinned down yet. Shame.

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Post by Cyberium » 4 years ago

3drinks wrote:
4 years ago
Cyberium wrote:
4 years ago
3drinks wrote:
4 years ago
This seems to not be gaining as much traction, hmm. Let's try to pick things up with a newer deck that has a lot of room for discussion and isn't nearly as solved.

3drinks' Greven, Predator Captain Garbage In, Treasure Out. Also featured, since it's his thread and for discussion's sake anyway, darrenhabib's Version of Greven. Lots of discussion exists in the thread already and there's still - in my estimation - not an open & shut way to build this commander, at least not yet anyway. I've got my theories and philosophies, let's see what the community thinks!

Discussion will last through October 16th, 2019!
Are people discussing the deck here... or at the deck thread? ^_^ It seems like people went directly for the thread. :D
I was just trying something to revive this thread. Seems it's waned from people's interests for a number if reasons I h.g event pinned down yet. Shame.
It's possible that if the deck intrigues people they just head their for a longer, more through discussion. (Since decks here have a limited amount of time)

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Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

I spy with my eye...a new deck!

Ever wanted your equipment to do more than just hang off a body? What about so much equipment it'd put Mr. T's number of gold chains to shame? "Oh, but that's bad 3drinks!" you're probably saying, "equipment are not threats on their own!" And to this I disagree, because now you can use your equipment to power other equipment which plays other cards from your hand. What?! you're probably asking me now...

[mention]OCPunisher[/mention] presents: The Real Urzatron! Work with your 1/4 legend to power out other equipments which then power out more equipments! Sound confusing? Ask OC how it works!

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Post by OCPunisher » 4 years ago

A few quick notes about my Urza deck:
- It's trying very hard to balance the inherent and absurd power level of Urza with a fun and fair approach: tap the equipment themselves to offset their equip costs.
- Full disclosure: I originally saw the concept for this deck on one of MTG Muddstah's YouTube channel (which everyone should watch), but made my own list after not being able to see all of the other person's list.
- Pet cards that needed to be included for theme and flavor include all the Swords of X and Y, all the Kaldra pieces, and all the Tron lands.
- A few cards that might just be generically awesome but not on theme are *gulp* Fact or Fiction, Leyline of Anticipation, Archmage's Charm, and Mystic Confluence.

As always, I love talking about this format, so please hit me up here as I don't have a thread for it yet! Thanks to [mention]3drinks[/mention] for showing it off.
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Post by Mookie » 4 years ago

Cyberium wrote:
4 years ago
3drinks wrote:
4 years ago
I was just trying something to revive this thread. Seems it's waned from people's interests for a number if reasons I h.g event pinned down yet. Shame.
It's possible that if the deck intrigues people they just head their for a longer, more through discussion. (Since decks here have a limited amount of time)
From my own perspective, I want to comment on decks, but there a couple of things that hold me back:
-it requires a solid amount of time investment to fully evaluate a deck, which means there is a higher barrier to entry than there is for the Random Card of the Day discussion.
-discussion encourages discussion - if I see people saying things, I'm more likely to contribute than I am if people are quiet.
-if I'm not familiar with the style of deck, I may not have a lot to say / suggestions to make.
It's definitely a good idea for deck owners to pop in and kickstart discussions, IMO.


Anyway, on to this week's deck...

I like the direction you've gone with the deck. I've only run into one Urza deck so far, and it went the stax direction, with Winter Orb and friends, which resulted in it drawing a lot of hate. What's your experience like playing this deck? Does it draw hate due to Urza's power level, or are people more amused?

Synergy between Urza and equipment is pretty nice - turns all of them into mana rocks (since they weren't being tapped otherwise). In contrast, I don't see any actual mana rocks other than Sol Ring.

That is... a lot of swords. @_@

What's your primary win condition? Urza isn't exactly the greatest voltron commander (1 power, no evasion) - do you usually just have enough equipment to make him into a threat?

Obligatory Kaldra callout. Also Urzatron lands. Have you ever assembled tron-tron? (kaldratron + urzatron + urza-tron)

No Treasure Mage to fill out that suite, but you're also a bit light on expensive artifacts. Also means that One With the Machine isn't as good either. Any interest in any artifact beaters? Wurmcoil Engine, Steel Hellkite, etc.

I'd suggest Strata Scythe, but it doesn't look as good with your basic split for Field of the Dead.

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Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

Honestly [mention]Mookie[/mention], I'm thinking the best kind of win con here is just to go with March of the Machines. Similarly, I suppose Tezzeret the Seeker accomplishes this too.

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Post by OCPunisher » 4 years ago

Thanks for the great comments, [mention]mookie[/mention]!
- No amount of Winter Orb-like things will ever be coming near my decks.
- I usually don't skimp on the mana rocks, but in this one case they felt a little redundant. Sol Ring is still good enough to earn a spot.
- ALL TEH SORDZ! Honestly didn't think about an actual win-con besides just suiting him up with a bunch of swords, or going wide with a bunch of Thopters.
- Strata Scythe might be okay, but I hate exiling my own stuff (no Semblance Anvil, either, it's like you're asking to get blown out). Furthermore, there are just too many solid lands out there, and each new one further decreases the ceiling of Strata Scythe and increases the floor of Field of the Dead.
- Haven't lived the double-dream of Tron-Tron yet, but it's now firmly on my bucket list, next to pumping out a free Eldrazi titan via Rakdos damage.
- I did think about Treasure Mage, but as you said I'm pretty light on the bigger stuff, and I've found out recently that cheaper works for me. Theme and flavor suggest that I should probably include an Argentum Armor, which would be a solid Treasure target.
- Not really interested in generic beaters...the mass of equips can turn a measly Thopter into a much better threat.
- You might be right about finding another win-condition.

Again, appreciate the feedback!
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Post by Dragonlover » 4 years ago

Have you considered Arcum Dagsson to turn Myr/Thopters/Servos into swords?

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Post by OCPunisher » 4 years ago

Dragonlover wrote:
4 years ago
Have you considered Arcum Dagsson to turn Myr/Thopters/Servos into swords?

Dragonlover
Another great question. I did consider it, but I don't think the deck makes enough Thopters right now, and it already has more tutors than even my black decks.

Getting back to Treasure Mage, I think this might finally be a decent home for another favorite (pet) card of mine: The Immortal Sun. Non-bo's with two Tezzerets and half of Ugin aside, this card lines up pretty well with the other 97 cards in the deck.
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Post by Mookie » 4 years ago

Other cards I'll throw out as suggestions:
All Is Dust - an asymmetric board wipe
Deadeye Quartermaster - a little more expensive than the T-Mages, but you have a very large suite of fetchables.
Helm of the Host - to fetch with Quartermaster so you can fetch the equipment you actually wanted, obviously. :P
Mask of Memory - fairly efficient card draw equipment
Swan Song - not necessarily on-theme, but it counters most mass artifact removal spells.
Glint-Nest Crane - lets you dig for an artifact, and carries equipment well.
Masterwork of Ingenuity - a very cheap equipment clone

Given that your commander is a mana sink, I would expect the lands that sacrifice to draw cards to go down in value (Blighted Cataract, Cryptic Caves, etc - I'll accept Memorial to Genius on flavor reasons though).
Similarly, I don't see any land tutoring, so assembling all of Urza's lands seems unlikely (again, I'm fine with it being run for flavor reasons).
If you wanted to replace those with other lands, I would suggest:
Shrine of the Forsaken Gods - taps for two mana lategame and enters untapped.
Inventors' Fair - a bit of incidental lifegain, and a tutor if you need one.
Tolaria West - another tutor in the land slot.
Rogue's Passage - gives your commander evasion (or lets you get in with a Sword of X & Y hit)

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Post by OCPunisher » 4 years ago

Oh boy, more good ideas to talk about!
- Rogue's Passage probably belongs in place of Blighted Cataract.
- Not sure what Tolaria West would dig up that's so important. Maybe Academy Ruins? Doesn't exactly seem worth it.
- I don't currently own a copy of Inventors' Fair or Masterwork of Ingenuity.
- There are a few too many colored spells to justify the Shrine right now.
- On that note, I don't think another non-artifact card like Glint-Nest Crane fits when there are a plethora of better options available. Skyscanner, for example, would accomplish mostly the same thing.
- Mask of Memory is reasonable drawing, but I'm pretty light on graveyard interaction.
- Helm of the Host is on my radar, but I'm not entirely sure what I would copy with it. Copying Urza wouldn't do much, outside of an extra Construct token.

One more card that has been just outside the list is Tamiyo's Journal, because you can use the clues for mana as well, and you can use the Journal itself for mana until you have enough clues to tutor. As always, cuts are becoming harder and harder.
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Post by materpillar » 4 years ago

I've a Chromium deck that is extremely similar to this. It's chock full of my favorite magic cards ever printed instead of being tuned for competitiveness. Here's that list. It might give you some inspiration.

Cards that jump out to me as recommendations...
Master Transmuter is my favorite magic card in existence and it does really really dumb things in decks like this. It's the perfect flavor of durdle. It's floor is protecting the vast majority of your decks from Shatter effects (you can blink and replay the same artifact). It's ceiling is absolutely fantastic with Mirrorworks.

Midnight Clock is a card that I just added. Being a mana rock that can also re-fill your hand and is tutorable with trophy mage makes it cover a lot of situations.

Darksteel Forge is pretty strong board defense. It looks like you generate enough mana for it to be cast-able and is a great treasure mage target.

Umezawa's Jitte is very strong against creature decks.

Sculpting steel is great in this deck, becoming a creature/ramp/equipment as needed.

One with the Machine is exceptional card draw.

I also run Darksteel Colossus + Worldslayer as a game ending combo. That's more because those are personal pet cards, so your mileage may vary. You're already running the Shield of Kaldra though, so it might be worth considering.

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Post by OCPunisher » 4 years ago

That's a lot of cards to add...all good choices, but something has to go to make room for some of these cards. What would you cut to add some of these in?
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Post by materpillar » 4 years ago

OCPunisher wrote:
4 years ago
That's a lot of cards to add...all good choices, but something has to go to make room for some of these cards. What would you cut to add some of these in?
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Vedalken Orrery and Leyline of Anticipation. They seem good only if you have unwinding clock and Urza out. But if that's the case, you can just dump the mana into urza instead of whatever is in your hand. I assume you're tapping out a ton to pay equip costs.

I have a personal hatred of Sensei's Divining Top as it usually does basically nothing except slow the game down. You've got a couple synergies and it goes slightly infinite with Mystic Forge but I'd axe it out of personal annoyance. Skullclamp seems really underwhelming with your 3 1/1 thopter makers. Cutting those makes Trinket Mage way worse then as it only finds lands or sol ring. He's still probably good enough, maybe find room the jam in a Relic of Progenitus. Actually you should almost certainly add that card, graveyard hate is almost mandatory now a days.

Crucible of worlds seems fine? It has got to be exceptionally slow, and you're not really doing a lot with it. You could tweak your mana base to have less ETB lands then.

Blackblade Reforged seems like the weakest equipment.

I'm unsure if Vedalken Shakles has enough islands to be worth it.

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Post by OCPunisher » 4 years ago

This is some great advice, [mention]materpillar[/mention]! I always prefer to talk about cuts because it's so much harder to do.

Even if I remove the knowledge, wisdom, and power from the deck, Link-et Mage is still going to be good enough. He can still find two lands, and the peahat is high on the list of potential new additions. Unfortunately, I don't yet own a master sword, but I'm searching all the nearby woods. I managed to avoid falling into any holes so far, and I don't think I need to find the dungeon map, boss key, or collect a bottle right now. A hook shot might come in handy. Please feel free to suggest any additional references I might have missed.

I ended up making the following changes:
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+2 Island, -Reliquary Tower and Tomb of the Spirit Dragon: started noticing too many hands with less than two Islands that couldn't cast Urza on time.
+Karn, Scion of Urza, -Leyline of Anticipation: couldn't quite give up on my favorite keyword of all time, and Leyline is also not an artifact.
+Skyscanner, -Skullclamp: the point about not having many small bodies was accurate, and I'm starting to recognize the value of cheap artifacts that can bridge the gap in early turns to get to Urza.
+Ichor Wellspring, -Howling Mine: noticed that the Mine was awkward without Urza, and the Wellspring is another cheap bridge card that smooths things out early and is still a mana rock later.
+Master Transmuter, -Blackblade Reforged: yet another observation: keywords are as important as p/t boosts, if not more so. Not sure how good or flavorful the Transmuter is in an equipment-themed deck, but it's worth a shot, and there are plenty of other things to put in if it isn't right.
+Meteor Golem, -Memnarch: Memnarch is one of the "optimal" choices I'm trying to avoid so as not to get pushed up to the cEDH tables. Meteor Golem checks all the right boxes: removal, carries a Sword, fetchable with Treasure Mage.
+Argentum Armor, -Vedalken Shackles: Another concession to theme and flavor, and the likelihood that I don't have quite enough Islands to make it "optimal", which is fine anyways.
In testing, I'm definitely keeping my eye on Mirrorworks and Unwinding Clock in terms of being overpowered.
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