My decklist got a few minor changes because of some cards I acquired over the weekend. I guess my main question for people would be what is the optimal ratio/number of 1cc creatures, lands, tutors, wheels, and other cards?
75chan wrote: ↑4 years ago
I've never played with a Damia or an Elfball deck, but I've played against both, but never as a combination. I'd like to play against a deck like this sometime, as I've found both Damia and Elfball fun to play against. I'm just worried about the lack of interaction as well as the game-winning turn taking >30min. Isn't the deck kind of deterministic when you're storming off?
By deterministic, you mean it will combo off with 100% certainty? Yes-ish? Once each creature adds +1 mana and +2 cards, I am almost certain to successfully draw and cast my deck. However, it isn't a 100% until I've got 3-4 extra mana floating and 3-4 extra creatures in hand (I don't think it is 100% certain until I've the ability to dig past a 4-5 land clump). It still takes a reasonable amount of time to get to that point. The point where the deck rolls from a 99% to a 100% kill is extremely vague for even me, so my opponents will certainly have no idea. Hence, they'll have to sit around and watch me durdle for quite a while. The closer the deck comes to being deterministic the slower the deck physically becomes since each creature cast will cause upward of 5-6 independent triggers, I need to start explicitly recording mana floating and such.
75chan wrote: ↑4 years ago
Since I've never played elfball (and you've probably heard of all cards I'd consider), I don't have any fun recommendations so I'll only mention that
Scavenger Folk seems like a weird inclusion. I'd consider
Caustic Caterpillar instead, but at that point
Reclamation Sage might just be better.
Scavenger Folk is a 1cc card that is capable of an amount of interacting with my opponents. He's also supposed to be a
Elvish Scrapper. I just keep forgetting to pick one up.
Echo wasn't in here purely because it was like $30 on release and I was waiting for the price to drop. It appears that the price has dropped, I should look into picking one up.
I'm curious to know how many wheels do you think is the correct amount? I just added
windfall too.
This deck was originally build to combo with exactly
Citanul Hierophants +
Nettle Sentinel +
Card Draw. It has evolved into a significantly more resilient monster since then 2012.
Mookie wrote: ↑4 years ago
This deck looks hilarious. I'd probably enjoy seeing it in action exactly once.... then request for it to be locked away in a dark corner until the end of time. I actually find the fact that you've managed to have zero infinite combos in the deck to be even more impressive than the ability to go off on turn 3 - I imagine that takes some careful pruning.
Indeed it does take careful pruning to avoid infinite combos. However, this deck was built specifically because I traded for a promo
Tendrils of Agony that I wanted to kill people with, and actually having to work for the storm not just going "
Palinchron, oooops you die." I wanted to put some artistry into it.
Cadaverous Bloom,
Aluren,
Intruder Alarm,
Phyrexian Altar,
Birchlore Rangers, and
Bolas's Citadel can all generate mana without haste.
Cryptolith Rite,
Citanul Hierophants, and
Priest of Titania all generate a lot of mana once I've got
Lightning Greaves down. Technically a fully leveled
Joraga Treespeaker can too buuuuut we don't plan on that. That all being said, immediate mana generation is extremely limiting.
Gaea's Cradle... see below
Gaea's Cradle is straight the best card in the deck. I specifically avoid playing my land-drop as long as possible while comboing off so that I can play it when I draw it. It generates a ton of mana and a multitude of card slots are in the deck primarily to just abuse it. I'm basically running three between itself
Sylvan Scrying, and
Crop Rotation. In fact, I doubt
Demonic Tutor would be a noticeable upgrade over
Sylvan Scrying because of how likely I'd be to just tutor for
Gaea's Cradle.
Time Spiral,
Cloud of Faeries, and
Frantic Search, and
Magus of the Candelabra are all in here almost specifically because they untap it.
Skyshroud Ranger,
Sakura-Tribe Scout and
Krosan Wayfarer can all put it into play if I draw into it mid-combo.
I'd much rather have
Sylvan Scrying than all the tutors you mentioned for that reason (except for Demonic obviously). However, I'm unsure of how many tutors I should be running. Every tutor is a net loss of mana, and I'm scared of increasing my chance of fizzling if I draw one instead of the 1cc creature I really needed to keep digging through my deck. However, the upside of tutoring might be worth it. Do you have any advice in this area?
I agree with that.
Mookie wrote: ↑4 years ago
Filterlands (
Flooded Grove and
Twilight Mire) also seem like they might be useful, given how important green mana looks to be. I see several creatures capable of filtering mana, so I imagine you may find value in getting that from your land slot.
My mana base is pretty poor. Part of the difficulty is balancing color-fixing and having spare basics around for
Earthcraft. I should really pick up some fetch-lands, I just hate spending money on lands.
Mookie wrote: ↑4 years ago
Is there any consideration for
Phyrexian Altar as another sacrifice outlet / mana producer?
The one I ordered just came in this weekend and just added it. >.>
Mookie wrote: ↑4 years ago
I really like the inclusion of
Cadaverous Bloom, which is a card I want to play with, but can never quite find a deck for.
Do you have a deck with
Ad Nauseam? Put it in there. :D
So when I originally built the deck I was worried about how I'd kill someone if they gained a couple trillion life. My answer was
Damia, Sage of Stone +
Nurturer Initiate +
Lightning Greaves + 17 green spells = lethal
Add in
Rogue's Passage to dodge blockers. However, I really doubt this will ever come up so
Rogue's Passage should be a land that taps for something other than colorless.
Also, the following is how I value 1cc creatures so you'll see why
Nurturer Initiate also makes the cut.
1) Mana production (
Birds of Paradise)
2) Has a relevant ability (
Viscera Seer)
3) Is an elf (For
Wirewood Hivemaster,
Priest of Titania,
Birchlore Rangers,
Wirewood Symbiote and such).
4) Cards that don't make the cut
Elvish Skysweeper is in here more because it is a 1cc elf than any other particular reason. It is also extremely loose interaction. However, your pickings for 1cc green creatures that are interactive is preeeetty narrow. It'll probably become
Elvish Reclaimer when I find one.
Mookie wrote: ↑4 years ago
Not sure how I feel about the (almost) total lack of interaction. I imagine that the plan is to win before people get the chance to play hate, but I wouldn't feel entirely comfortable immediately folding to
Humility /
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite /
Rule of Law /
Damping Sphere / etc. Might be worth running a 1-of
Assassin's Trophy as a tutor target, if you decide to run more tutors.
Overall: deck looks really unique! Definitely looks like it would be very fun to play with (although less so to play against).
Actually,
Humility is very very beatable. I'll let my opponents have
Humility if I can resolve
Ad Nauseam any day.
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is even more rough but I could fight through it. I'd just need to find
Fecundity.
Rule of Law /
Damping Sphere aren't beatable unless I find
Scavenger Folk and
Elvish Lyrist. I've only ever seen
Arcane Laboratory a handful of times in my entire life though so it isn't overly concerning.
The deck is extreme volatile though. Its best defense is ignorance. Unless people have played a bunch of legacy elves they'll probably have an very difficult time having proper threat analysis. I'm more concerned about people running combo-decks that are comparatively fast, since I can't do anything to stop them.