Random Deck of the Week Thread

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Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

75chan wrote:
4 years ago
I have no feedback due to theme (there aren't that many white-bordered sets not counting foreign reprints so I'm assuming you looked through all) and lack of experience with and against Alesha (I have in fact never either played with or against the card) and mardu in general, as I've never played the color combination and have only played a handful games vs it.

That being said, a full white-bordered deck is cool. It's a nice way of lowering powerlevel without intentionally doing so.

Does your opponents, particularly ones not fond of white ever get salty over the white borders? Is Helm of Chatzuk putting in work or is it only there for fun?
I have extensively researched, for about a month, before settling on a list I was comfortable with, yes.

YES! Helm of Chatzuk is quite strong, especially with my Serf tokens.

I've made a few people rage over the old Icy Manipulator + Royal Assassin combo. I also held off two decks (GAAIV, and the Marrow-Gnawer) with Icy + Sacred Mesa.

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Post by 75chan » 4 years ago

3drinks wrote:
4 years ago
75chan wrote:
4 years ago
I have no feedback due to theme (there aren't that many white-bordered sets not counting foreign reprints so I'm assuming you looked through all) and lack of experience with and against Alesha (I have in fact never either played with or against the card) and mardu in general, as I've never played the color combination and have only played a handful games vs it.

That being said, a full white-bordered deck is cool. It's a nice way of lowering powerlevel without intentionally doing so.

Does your opponents, particularly ones not fond of white ever get salty over the white borders? Is Helm of Chatzuk putting in work or is it only there for fun?
I have extensively researched, for about a month, before settling on a list I was comfortable with, yes.

YES! Helm of Chatzuk is quite strong, especially with my Serf tokens.

I've made a few people rage over the old Icy Manipulator + Royal Assassin combo. I also held off two decks (GAAIV, and the Marrow-Gnawer) with Icy + Sacred Mesa.
Nice, I'm glad the Helm has a home. I'm assuming you're quite used to explaining banding by now, haha.

Sweet. It shouldn't be too oppressive in multiplayer & it's a cool combo. I'm glad it's doing work.
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Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

75chan wrote:
4 years ago
Nice, I'm glad the Helm has a home. I'm assuming you're quite used to explaining banding by now, haha.

Sweet. It shouldn't be too oppressive in multiplayer & it's a cool combo. I'm glad it's doing work.
I just explain to people "it lets me blatantly cheat in combat". Now when they see me leave a mana up, they look elsewhere for attacks. Didn't take more than one combat of getting blown out by banding to learn that lesson, to their credit.

Yeah, it's a very fair deck that does need to play to the long game, and it doesn't really have a combo built in. Just overwhelm with value and grind out.

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Post by Toshi » 4 years ago

3drinks wrote:
4 years ago
Next deck up for discussion is...

White Border Alesha - 3drinks
Back, when i had my own Alesha, Who Smiles At Death list, i planned on looking at your white-border list - but never did. Reason enough to change that now!

I really like your list, there's very few things i would change. I went through the struggle of sifting through all ~1.000 possible cards and here are the few ones i'd like to hear your opinion about.

Fellwar Stone - I love this rock in anything outside of and i'm sure it would do great here with the limited fixing of white border lands. Star Compass would do okay as well.
Imperial Recruiter - I know it's still a ~75€ card, but it's propably the best creature for the deck and could speed up your grind significantly.
Necrologia - I have to be honest, it's a pet card of mine. Without the discard clause of Necropotence you could fast charge your graveyard for your next turn(s).
Oppression - This one's a little tricky, especially with your low creature count, but early in the game it's a great discard option that's more or less asymetrical.
Wheel of Fortune - Yup, another ~50€ card, but another great graveyard enabler.

Either way, great to see a theme driven deck, that could carry its own weight in most pods. :-)

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Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

NoNeedToBragoBoutIt wrote:
4 years ago
Back, when i had my own Alesha, Who Smiles At Death list, i planned on looking at your white-border list - but never did. Reason enough to change that now!

I really like your list, there's very few things i would change. I went through the struggle of sifting through all ~1.000 possible cards and here are the few ones i'd like to hear your opinion about.

Fellwar Stone - I love this rock in anything outside of and i'm sure it would do great here with the limited fixing of white border lands. Star Compass would do okay as well.
Imperial Recruiter - I know it's still a ~75€ card, but it's propably the best creature for the deck and could speed up your grind significantly.
Necrologia - I have to be honest, it's a pet card of mine. Without the discard clause of Necropotence you could fast charge your graveyard for your next turn(s).
Oppression - This one's a little tricky, especially with your low creature count, but early in the game it's a great discard option that's more or less asymetrical.
Wheel of Fortune - Yup, another ~50€ card, but another great graveyard enabler.

Either way, great to see a theme driven deck, that could carry its own weight in most pods. :-)
So, a few thoughts about the rocks and such, and why I don't play that many. I've managed to keep my cmc under control pretty well, in fact there is only two (three, iirc) that cost five (or more, looking at you Triskelion) mana. I don't have much need for ramp here, even sol ring is somewhat dubious as Alesha's ability is {W/B}{W/B}.

I do own an Imp Recruiter. But it's the judge foil and thus, not legal for play in the WB deck. In the deck's statement, I've clearly set the guidelines so as to exclude cards not normally in WB (the mana crypt), or that are hard to access (P3K). The idea is to provide a simple baseline to jump into (he says, still listing grim tutour in the deck lol). if you want this effect, I'd suggest getting the 7ED goblin matron as there is a decent little goblin package in your card set (including a goblin king, goblin recruiter, and a ghetto goblin ringleader). Yeah, I dug pretty deep into this project, haha.

Necrologia is probably a good fit, even if I dislike the timing restriction. I find typically I'm pretty well served by ancient craving and dregs of sorrow for the big draw though (and there's still room to jam ambition's cost too). Jalum Tome, even. I'll add wheel of fortune here as well since it's doing a similar thing. I don't like wheel. Full stop. I believe it's a combo card, and I'm not in the camp of adding this effect to the deck. In fact, I find unless I'm the combo deck, casting this just enables another player to win in short order. I don't need it.

Oppression is certainly interesting, and worth testing I think. I'm not sure I can power it well enough, and it works against my small token sub-strat. Since this deck often wins by going wide into the red zone, I believe it to be working a little too hard against me to make the cut. That's my hypothesis, anyway. For the discard lock, I think we're better suited to sac and recur mindslicer instead.

Whoops, I was thinking of Tainted AEther when I spoke on Oppression. "Whenever a player casts a spell, that player discards a card". Hmm. I think that just made the deck, honestly. Maybe, it's symmetrical which sets up others' graveyards and we don't have access to a lot of 'Yard hate (just a single crypt, since the rats' feast is in the rare Hachette set).

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Post by Mookie » 4 years ago

Alesha, Who Smiles at Death is a pretty sweet commander - often plays the fair game by reanimating small creatures and grinding out value, but can also do unfair things due to the reanimation being based off power (and not CMC), opening up the ability to reanimate things like Custodi Soulbinders or Triskelion. On the other hand, creatures have generally become more powerful over time, so limiting your card selection to white-bordered cards is a pretty hefty restriction.

As I am not particularly familiar with which cards are available in the cardpool, I am going to refrain from making suggestions for cuts or adds - there are definitely some cards that seem like they could be upgraded (ex: TerrorDoom Blade), but that's mostly a result of power creep since white borders were phased out.

Other thoughts:
- commitment to the theme is super respectable. On one hand, it's a little sad to not get to look forwards to new cards to improve the deck.... but on the other hand, it's very cool to have a deck that is 100% perfect forever and never needs to be updated (barring some explicit exceptions).
- including both Ashes to Ashes and Dust to Dust makes me smile.
- Pestilence seems like an odd inclusion, given the average size of your creatures.
- Death Pit Offering is super spicy.

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Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

[Mention]mookie[/mention];Pestilence is one of the strongest board control cards I have access to, I think I have to play it. Although, with the death pits (of rath) in the deck now, it may be more correct to go back to rolling thunder.

I kinda want to add some classic fat - Serra angel, shivan, & thunder dragon. But I'm afraid of adding these with my current curve. They don't really add to the deck and can only be brought back with hell's caretaker.

You should see the 1v1 version with hyppie & abyssal spectres, duress/hymn/twist/cursed rack, then sinkhole to complement my pillage and with an ivory tower to back me up. I'd add in static orb here too.

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Post by materpillar » 4 years ago

Nether Shadow might be worth it with all of your sacrifice outlets? You are pretty creature light though.

I'm constantly tempted to jam Ankh of Mishra to punish mono-ramp decks. Very metagame dependent. Might be worth considering.

I'm very familiar with a ton of magic cards, but I don't really know what was at one time white bordered or not. I'm a huge fan of the only white-bordered deck idea though. Decks with extremely specific themes like this are the best.

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Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

Some day I'm gonna get a handle on deadlines, haha. Anyway, our next deck for discussion is;

This week's deck of discussion is "Elfstorm" - helmed by Damia, Sage of Stone and designed by [mention]materpillar[/mention]!

Discussion will last through September 9th, 2019 @midnight. Whew, good thing that deadline didn't stretch out a couple more days.

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Post by 75chan » 4 years ago

I've never played with a Damia or an Elfball deck, but I've played against both, but never as a combination. I'd like to play against a deck like this sometime, as I've found both Damia and Elfball fun to play against. I'm just worried about the lack of interaction as well as the game-winning turn taking >30min. Isn't the deck kind of deterministic when you're storming off?

Since I've never played elfball (and you've probably heard of all cards I'd consider), I don't have any fun recommendations so I'll only mention that Scavenger Folk seems like a weird inclusion. I'd consider Caustic Caterpillar instead, but at that point Reclamation Sage might just be better.

Echo of Eons is an upgrade to Time Reversal (I don't think the 5 --> 6 mana is that Chord of Calling seems like as solid fit as instant speed + convoke more than makes up for the extra GG over GSZ in my opinion.

Citanul Hierophants is a cool card. Had no idea it existed.
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Post by Mookie » 4 years ago

This deck looks hilarious. I'd probably enjoy seeing it in action exactly once.... then request for it to be locked away in a dark corner until the end of time. I actually find the fact that you've managed to have zero infinite combos in the deck to be even more impressive than the ability to go off on turn 3 - I imagine that takes some careful pruning.

Deck looks to be relatively consistent in its creature base - a huge number of cheap creatures to ramp with. I imagine that the primary limiting factor is access to immediate mana generation - it looks like you have ~4 sources of it? Earthcraft, Tangleroot, Concordant Crossroads, and Lightning Greaves. Plus Birchlore Rangers, Heritage Druid, and Gaea's Cradle if we're willing to stretch the definition a bit.

More tutors would be my default suggestion - Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, Worldly Tutor, and Mystical Tutor all seem like reasonable inclusions, depending on what you want to fetch up - all seem preferable to Sylvan Scrying.

Glimpse of Nature also seems like a glaring omission.

Filterlands (Flooded Grove and Twilight Mire) also seem like they might be useful, given how important green mana looks to be. I see several creatures capable of filtering mana, so I imagine you may find value in getting that from your land slot.

Is there any consideration for Phyrexian Altar as another sacrifice outlet / mana producer?

I really like the inclusion of Cadaverous Bloom, which is a card I want to play with, but can never quite find a deck for.

I'm a bit curious what the purpose of Nurturer Initiate is. Damia beatdowns alongside Rogue's Passage (which is another odd-looking inclusion)? Elvish Skysweeper also seems like it wouldn't be activated very often.

Not sure how I feel about the (almost) total lack of interaction. I imagine that the plan is to win before people get the chance to play hate, but I wouldn't feel entirely comfortable immediately folding to Humility / Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite / Rule of Law / Damping Sphere / etc. Might be worth running a 1-of Assassin's Trophy as a tutor target, if you decide to run more tutors.

Overall: deck looks really unique! Definitely looks like it would be very fun to play with (although less so to play against).

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Post by materpillar » 4 years ago

My decklist got a few minor changes because of some cards I acquired over the weekend. I guess my main question for people would be what is the optimal ratio/number of 1cc creatures, lands, tutors, wheels, and other cards?
75chan wrote:
4 years ago
I've never played with a Damia or an Elfball deck, but I've played against both, but never as a combination. I'd like to play against a deck like this sometime, as I've found both Damia and Elfball fun to play against. I'm just worried about the lack of interaction as well as the game-winning turn taking >30min. Isn't the deck kind of deterministic when you're storming off?
By deterministic, you mean it will combo off with 100% certainty? Yes-ish? Once each creature adds +1 mana and +2 cards, I am almost certain to successfully draw and cast my deck. However, it isn't a 100% until I've got 3-4 extra mana floating and 3-4 extra creatures in hand (I don't think it is 100% certain until I've the ability to dig past a 4-5 land clump). It still takes a reasonable amount of time to get to that point. The point where the deck rolls from a 99% to a 100% kill is extremely vague for even me, so my opponents will certainly have no idea. Hence, they'll have to sit around and watch me durdle for quite a while. The closer the deck comes to being deterministic the slower the deck physically becomes since each creature cast will cause upward of 5-6 independent triggers, I need to start explicitly recording mana floating and such.
75chan wrote:
4 years ago
Since I've never played elfball (and you've probably heard of all cards I'd consider), I don't have any fun recommendations so I'll only mention that Scavenger Folk seems like a weird inclusion. I'd consider Caustic Caterpillar instead, but at that point Reclamation Sage might just be better.
Scavenger Folk is a 1cc card that is capable of an amount of interacting with my opponents. He's also supposed to be a Elvish Scrapper. I just keep forgetting to pick one up.
75chan wrote:
4 years ago
Echo of Eons is an upgrade to Time Reversal (I don't think the 5 --> 6 mana is that Chord of Calling seems like as solid fit as instant speed + convoke more than makes up for the extra GG over GSZ in my opinion.
Echo wasn't in here purely because it was like $30 on release and I was waiting for the price to drop. It appears that the price has dropped, I should look into picking one up.

I'm curious to know how many wheels do you think is the correct amount? I just added windfall too.
75chan wrote:
4 years ago
Citanul Hierophants is a cool card. Had no idea it existed.
This deck was originally build to combo with exactly Citanul Hierophants + Nettle Sentinel + Card Draw. It has evolved into a significantly more resilient monster since then 2012.




Mookie wrote:
4 years ago
This deck looks hilarious. I'd probably enjoy seeing it in action exactly once.... then request for it to be locked away in a dark corner until the end of time. I actually find the fact that you've managed to have zero infinite combos in the deck to be even more impressive than the ability to go off on turn 3 - I imagine that takes some careful pruning.
Indeed it does take careful pruning to avoid infinite combos. However, this deck was built specifically because I traded for a promo Tendrils of Agony that I wanted to kill people with, and actually having to work for the storm not just going "Palinchron, oooops you die." I wanted to put some artistry into it.

Mookie wrote:
4 years ago
Deck looks to be relatively consistent in its creature base - a huge number of cheap creatures to ramp with. I imagine that the primary limiting factor is access to immediate mana generation - it looks like you have ~4 sources of it? Earthcraft, Tangleroot, Concordant Crossroads, and Lightning Greaves. Plus Birchlore Rangers, Heritage Druid, and Gaea's Cradle if we're willing to stretch the definition a bit.
Cadaverous Bloom, Aluren, Intruder Alarm, Phyrexian Altar, Birchlore Rangers, and Bolas's Citadel can all generate mana without haste. Cryptolith Rite, Citanul Hierophants, and Priest of Titania all generate a lot of mana once I've got Lightning Greaves down. Technically a fully leveled Joraga Treespeaker can too buuuuut we don't plan on that. That all being said, immediate mana generation is extremely limiting.

Gaea's Cradle... see below
Mookie wrote:
4 years ago
More tutors would be my default suggestion - Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, Worldly Tutor, and Mystical Tutor all seem like reasonable inclusions, depending on what you want to fetch up - all seem preferable to Sylvan Scrying.
Gaea's Cradle is straight the best card in the deck. I specifically avoid playing my land-drop as long as possible while comboing off so that I can play it when I draw it. It generates a ton of mana and a multitude of card slots are in the deck primarily to just abuse it. I'm basically running three between itself Sylvan Scrying, and Crop Rotation. In fact, I doubt Demonic Tutor would be a noticeable upgrade over Sylvan Scrying because of how likely I'd be to just tutor for Gaea's Cradle. Time Spiral, Cloud of Faeries, and Frantic Search, and Magus of the Candelabra are all in here almost specifically because they untap it. Skyshroud Ranger, Sakura-Tribe Scout and Krosan Wayfarer can all put it into play if I draw into it mid-combo.

I'd much rather have Sylvan Scrying than all the tutors you mentioned for that reason (except for Demonic obviously). However, I'm unsure of how many tutors I should be running. Every tutor is a net loss of mana, and I'm scared of increasing my chance of fizzling if I draw one instead of the 1cc creature I really needed to keep digging through my deck. However, the upside of tutoring might be worth it. Do you have any advice in this area?
Mookie wrote:
4 years ago
Glimpse of Nature also seems like a glaring omission.
I agree with that.
Mookie wrote:
4 years ago
Filterlands (Flooded Grove and Twilight Mire) also seem like they might be useful, given how important green mana looks to be. I see several creatures capable of filtering mana, so I imagine you may find value in getting that from your land slot.
My mana base is pretty poor. Part of the difficulty is balancing color-fixing and having spare basics around for Earthcraft. I should really pick up some fetch-lands, I just hate spending money on lands.
Mookie wrote:
4 years ago
Is there any consideration for Phyrexian Altar as another sacrifice outlet / mana producer?
The one I ordered just came in this weekend and just added it. >.>
Mookie wrote:
4 years ago
I really like the inclusion of Cadaverous Bloom, which is a card I want to play with, but can never quite find a deck for.
Do you have a deck with Ad Nauseam? Put it in there. :D
Mookie wrote:
4 years ago
I'm a bit curious what the purpose of Nurturer Initiate is. Damia beatdowns alongside Rogue's Passage (which is another odd-looking inclusion)? Elvish Skysweeper also seems like it wouldn't be activated very often.
So when I originally built the deck I was worried about how I'd kill someone if they gained a couple trillion life. My answer was
Damia, Sage of Stone + Nurturer Initiate + Lightning Greaves + 17 green spells = lethal
Add in Rogue's Passage to dodge blockers. However, I really doubt this will ever come up so Rogue's Passage should be a land that taps for something other than colorless.

Also, the following is how I value 1cc creatures so you'll see why Nurturer Initiate also makes the cut.
1) Mana production (Birds of Paradise)
2) Has a relevant ability (Viscera Seer)
3) Is an elf (For Wirewood Hivemaster, Priest of Titania, Birchlore Rangers, Wirewood Symbiote and such).
4) Cards that don't make the cut


Elvish Skysweeper is in here more because it is a 1cc elf than any other particular reason. It is also extremely loose interaction. However, your pickings for 1cc green creatures that are interactive is preeeetty narrow. It'll probably become Elvish Reclaimer when I find one.
Mookie wrote:
4 years ago
Not sure how I feel about the (almost) total lack of interaction. I imagine that the plan is to win before people get the chance to play hate, but I wouldn't feel entirely comfortable immediately folding to Humility / Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite / Rule of Law / Damping Sphere / etc. Might be worth running a 1-of Assassin's Trophy as a tutor target, if you decide to run more tutors.

Overall: deck looks really unique! Definitely looks like it would be very fun to play with (although less so to play against).
Actually, Humility is very very beatable. I'll let my opponents have Humility if I can resolve Ad Nauseam any day. Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is even more rough but I could fight through it. I'd just need to find Fecundity.

Rule of Law / Damping Sphere aren't beatable unless I find Scavenger Folk and Elvish Lyrist. I've only ever seen Arcane Laboratory a handful of times in my entire life though so it isn't overly concerning.

The deck is extreme volatile though. Its best defense is ignorance. Unless people have played a bunch of legacy elves they'll probably have an very difficult time having proper threat analysis. I'm more concerned about people running combo-decks that are comparatively fast, since I can't do anything to stop them.

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Post by Mookie » 4 years ago

materpillar wrote:
4 years ago
Indeed it does take careful pruning to avoid infinite combos. However, this deck was built specifically because I traded for a promo Tendrils of Agony that I wanted to kill people with, and actually having to work for the storm not just going "Palinchron, oooops you die." I wanted to put some artistry into it.
It's not about winning, it's about winning with style!
materpillar wrote:
4 years ago
I'd much rather have Sylvan Scrying than all the tutors you mentioned for that reason (except for Demonic obviously). However, I'm unsure of how many tutors I should be running. Every tutor is a net loss of mana, and I'm scared of increasing my chance of fizzling if I draw one instead of the 1cc creature I really needed to keep digging through my deck. However, the upside of tutoring might be worth it. Do you have any advice in this area?
If Gaea's cradle is that important, then it definitely makes sense to make sure every tutor can fetch it. If it's that important, then Expedition Map, Elvish Reclaimer, and Tolaria West may be worth consideration. My main reason for suggesting Mystical Tutor would be to fetch Glimpse of Nature, if you were to run it.

Without having actually played the deck (or anything even remotely similar), it's hard for me to say how many tutors are correct. For my own decks, I'm generally pretty tutor-light as a result of budget considerations. If you usually have a ton of cards and not enough mana, I think they're worth consideration - a top-of-deck tutor allows you to fetch up Cloud of Faeries or some other untap effect, allowing you to turn excess cards into mana.
materpillar wrote:
4 years ago
My mana base is pretty poor. Part of the difficulty is balancing color-fixing and having spare basics around for Earthcraft. I should really pick up some fetch-lands, I just hate spending money on lands.
Ha, fair. Not going to lie: when I see Gaea's Cradle in a deck, I usually assume the person has no budget restrictions. Balancing number of basics vs total fixing is hard.
materpillar wrote:
4 years ago
Also, the following is how I value 1cc creatures so you'll see why Nurturer Initiate also makes the cut.
Makes sense. I imagine you've done more research in this area than I have, so I'm not going to dig into this too deeply - looks like you already have almost every 1-mana dork I can think of. I would suggest Shrieking Drake, but it goes infinite with Earthcraft, so it's out.

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Post by 75chan » 4 years ago

materpillar wrote:
4 years ago
My decklist got a few minor changes because of some cards I acquired over the weekend. I guess my main question for people would be what is the optimal ratio/number of 1cc creatures, lands, tutors, wheels, and other cards?
No idea. I'd run like, 29 lands I think, since you only really need 2-3 to go off. (2 and then hold for cradle). If they blow out your dorks, you're set back enough even if you hit another land. I might be wrong though. Edit: You're actually running 29 lands haha. I typed this without looking at the number. I don't think tutors should be based on number but based on quality. I'd run the ones that are good enough (Demonic, Sylvan Scrying and Vampiric probably, not sure I'd run another if they're all Cradle, but for mana). 1cc creatures is hard to say without playing the deck or doing the math, but as many as possible. Anything in green that's an elf that taps for itself+ should be good enough unless we're talking astronomical CMC's.
By deterministic, you mean it will combo off with 100% certainty? Yes-ish? Once each creature adds +1 mana and +2 cards, I am almost certain to successfully draw and cast my deck. However, it isn't a 100% until I've got 3-4 extra mana floating and 3-4 extra creatures in hand (I don't think it is 100% certain until I've the ability to dig past a 4-5 land clump). It still takes a reasonable amount of time to get to that point. The point where the deck rolls from a 99% to a 100% kill is extremely vague for even me, so my opponents will certainly have no idea. Hence, they'll have to sit around and watch me durdle for quite a while. The closer the deck comes to being deterministic the slower the deck physically becomes since each creature cast will cause upward of 5-6 independent triggers, I need to start explicitly recording mana floating and such.
Yeah, but in theory, I'd probably scoop at 99%. Abundance might help in that regard, but not sure if that's what you want.
Scavenger Folk is a 1cc card that is capable of an amount of interacting with my opponents. He's also supposed to be a Elvish Scrapper. I just keep forgetting to pick one up.
Ah, it being Elvish Scrapper makes a lot of sense, then that is a better inclusion than the one I mentioned.
Echo wasn't in here purely because it was like $30 on release and I was waiting for the price to drop. It appears that the price has dropped, I should look into picking one up.

I'm curious to know how many wheels do you think is the correct amount? I just added windfall too.
Maybe four? Just be wary of adding another non-exiling reshuffle one as it'd go infinite with Echo. Commit // Memory has been better for me in practice than it seems on paper. It might be interesting to try. If you wanna go all-in on this, you can also throw in a Notion Thief which might help incase you ever are behind as well, but it's a bit too off-theme for you I'd presume.

Mind's Desire might be good in-case you wanna go further on the storm plan. You can probably win without it, but it makes it less likely that you fizzle. Any spell bounce (Remand / Unsubstantiate / Narset's Reversal) are also good inclusions, as they lower the needed storm count for Tendrils (I'd suggest swapping this for Aetherflux Reservoir incase you want to optimize, but I get it. Tendril's just so sweet, haha. I cut it from my own storm deck recently, and it did hurt a bit) and they're rather good at interacting as well.
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Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

Discussion on the next deck will last through September 17th, 7am PST.

Rakdos, the Showstopper is the name of the game, and [mention]JqlGirl[/mention] is the artist on deck!

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Post by materpillar » 4 years ago

Akoum Refuge and Bloodfell Caves seem poor. There's enough fixing already I think a basic land would be better just to avoid the ETB tapped. Obviously, an off-color fetch would be ideal, but I'm unsure of what the budget is here.

Mark of the Oni is sick. I've never seen that card before.
Blood Speaker is also awesome.

At a glance, this deck is SUPER mana hungry. There's 18 demons with CC of 5 or greater! There's like no way you don't get those stuck in your hand.
Belbe's Portal might be worth considering? Maybe blasphemous act instead of one of the X-spells? As lame as it is, I'd strongly recommend shaving off some of those super cool Timmy demons for some lower costed spells. Maybe Abyssal Persecutor or Spawn of Mayhem instead of some 7-8 drops?

You probably want some effects like Phyrexian Arena to make sure you keep drawing lands to hit you land drops every turn.

Ob Nixilis, the Hate-Twisted is on theme but seems seriously underwhelming.

The funniest thing about this deck to me is that you're running Trinisphere because your curve is so jacked up it doesn't affect you at all.

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Post by Outcryqq » 4 years ago

It might not be good enough, but there's a solid demon from the Commander 2019 product, Archfiend of Spite. The ability is really powerful, but I'm not sure the deck can make the best use of it, and I don't see a lot of ways to take advantage of the madness cost.

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Post by 75chan » 4 years ago

Never played with or against demon tribal. I'm not a tribal player in general so it's hard to give any feedback.

Wildfire Devil seems like an awkward inclusion since it's not a demon. I'm happy to see Sin Prodder seeing play, but I don't expect it to be any good? I like the combination of the X spells and your abundance of flying creatures. Your mana base screams Blood Moon, so it's a tad disappointing not to see it, but I can understand not choosing to run it for several reasons.

Thran Dynamo seems like a good inclusion & even Sisay's Ring considering how expensive your cards are and you want, as well with more 2-3 mana rocks. With your X spells and expensive demons etc, it's not like you'll ever have too much mana, haha.
I swap decks a lot
wr Avacyn with defensive blinking
ur OG Jhoira spellslinger without MLD or eldrazi
and some other stuff that are more or less messy


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Post by Mookie » 4 years ago

Demon (and Devil) tribal? Seems entertaining. I don't think I've ever actually played against a Rakdos, the Showstopper deck, but having half a Plague Wind in the command zone sounds pretty sweet. Pity you didn't fit any Imps in the deck, but given that there only appear to be two or so ones worth playing (ignoring Changelings), that's understandable.

One thing that stands out to me is the mana curve, which is on the higher side (most demons are pretty expensive). You have a decent ramp suite for them, but I'll throw out Rakdos Signet as an obvious omission, but there are other options, such as Arcane Signet, Worn Powerstone, and Coalition Relic. May also be worth lowering the curve a bit. On the other hand, a high curve gives more value from Demonlord Belzenlok, so meh.

Another option would be to lean into reanimation - I see Patriarch's Bidding, but not a lot of other recursion - just Cauldron Dance, Whip of Erebos, and Oversold Cemetery. Animate Dead or Beacon of Unrest may be worth consideration. Faithless Looting and Buried Alive are options for filling the graveyard, if you want to go that route.

I see a decent amount of card draw - with a high curve, and many demons naturally generating card advantage, you probably don't need too much. I will throw out Promise of Power and Kothophed, Soul Hoarder as two on-theme options.

It also looks like the only lifegain you have is Whip of Erebos, but there are a lot of cards that put pressure on your life total. May be worth considering Exsanguinate as a way to gain back a bunch of life. Alternatively, equipment such as Loxodon Warhammer, Batterskull, or Basilisk Collar. (Lightning Greaves is also pretty good)

Mark of the Oni is a super spicy inclusion, and I love the inclusion of stuff like Fire Covenant and Hellfire - all the life loss adds up, but it makes the deck very flavorful. Pity there aren't more demon tribal synergies. Earthquake effects alongside all your fliers is also pretty fun.

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Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

It's been a week, disappointed to see the authour of the last deck not come over here, but RL comes first I guess. Anyway, the show must go on;

[mention]OCPunisher[/mention] says "Smile for the birdie...and die, asshole!" Actually, they didn't, I did though in the original chat for this deck. Really, I didn't though, it was commentary stolen from the helicopter cops on GTA III. Always stuck out in my mind. ANYway;

Kykar, Wind's Fury!

Aaannnndddd gggoooooo!!

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Post by materpillar » 4 years ago

Elixir of Immortality seems bad. If you're using that to not get decked, how haven't you killed the table yet? If you're seriously worried about decking yourself Laboratory Maniac is the card to play.

You should probably be playing twincast or something similar since you already have expansion//explosion and Ral Zerak.

overburden is adorable by the way.

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Post by OCPunisher » 4 years ago

Okay, first a little aside on the backstory:

The phrase "look at the bird!" comes from a thing between my wife and I. A few years ago, she told me about some sort of couples compatibility thing where one person would start talking about something that they liked, and the test was if the spouse would stop what they were doing and take interest in what the first person was saying. The example was if one person liked bird-watching and said "Honey, look at the bird!", then if the other one paid attention, it led to a longer relationship. I stopped her when I heard the phrase itself, thought it was hilarious, and now I point out random birds just to get an excuse to say it...drives her nuts the way married people do. I even got my three-year-old to tell her mommy to "look at the bird". Fast forward a bit: I was thinking about ideas for a new deck featuring Elsha of the Infinite, slowly realized that Kykar was just better at what I wanted to do, made the switch, and realized I could tie in a great joke.

About the deck: Unfortunately my kids are still pretty small, so I'm limited to playing cards about once a month. I've only played Kykar once or twice against live opponents to date, and not every card has come up yet.

Overburden is incredible when you never actually cast a creature spell, or your curve is so low that you can afford to bounce a land every so often. My friends play a lot of Forest-based decks and this card really sets 'em back. Elixir seemed like a nice non-chalant way to shuffle a few cantrips back, gain some life, reset a Top, etc. Now that you mention it, probably could just run some sort of Fork instead.

I look forward to reading more comments!
A deck for every color: Rakdos | Lord | Heliod | Yeva | Tetsuko | Scarab | Kykar | Kozz | Athreos | Haldan/Pako

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Post by Mookie » 4 years ago

Looks like an interesting deck to pilot. Kykar, Wind's Fury and a couple of other spell-based token producers, plus a ton of noncreature spells. I assume the primary win condition is a mix of beating down with evasive tokens and burning people out with Purphoros, God of the Forge - while Isochron Scepter is in here, I don't see its usual combo accomplice, which is actually sort of refreshing. No obvious combos I can see, but I also think that the core strategy is strong enough to win without needing any.

Sunforger package is always interesting to see. How has that been performing for you? I only see Enlightened Tutor as a way to fetch it up. On the flip side, I would throw out Boros Charm and Teferi's Protection as potential tutor targets to include.

Soulfire Grand Master seems like it may be too slow here. Elixir of Immortality may also be superfluous, but I don't hate it as a way to restock cards for Sunforger more efficiently than relying on Mistveil Plains.

Riptide Laboratory may be worth consideration as a way to protect your general, but it also looks like it would be difficult to fit another colorless utility land in.

I really like your choice of wraths - Time Wipe, Slaughter the Strong and Tragic Arrogance all seem like great fits for Kykar. I would suggest Divine Reckoning, but it is largely outclassed by these three.

Overall, deck looks very tuned - I can't think of many obvious cuts or includes.

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Post by OCPunisher » 4 years ago

Mookie wrote:
4 years ago
Overall, deck looks very tuned - I can't think of many obvious cuts or includes.
Why thank you! You're correct in that there are no insta-win combos, just a lot of really strong/CHEAP synergies that work very well together.
- Finally managed to take this deck out for a spin last weekend. Game one was actually piloted by a friend, and he managed to assemble a nice, steady air force that took out two of the three opponents before finally succumbing to a single large Gisela-fueled combat step. Game two, I over-extended horribly and ended up getting blown out by a well-timed Oblivion Stone that left me with three lands and no cards in hand.
- Teferi's Protection is the number one card on my wishlist for the entire format, and this deck is the front-runner to use it. Unfortunately, it's way too expensive and needs to be reprinted many, many times. Considering how many blowouts happened at the hands of O-Stone and Pernicious Deed this weekend, Boros Charm probably needs to come in. At one point during the second game, I considered adding a Stifle effect.
- The Sunforger package worked out pretty well. I consider it incidental in that nearly all of its targets are good enough to run with or without it, so it's just one card that happens to add extra value. This also basically describes the role of Isochron Scepter.
- Soulfire Grand Master and Elixir of Immortality are probably the two cuts to make.
A deck for every color: Rakdos | Lord | Heliod | Yeva | Tetsuko | Scarab | Kykar | Kozz | Athreos | Haldan/Pako

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Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

OCPunisher wrote:
4 years ago
Mookie wrote:
4 years ago
Overall, deck looks very tuned - I can't think of many obvious cuts or includes.
Why thank you! You're correct in that there are no insta-win combos, just a lot of really strong/CHEAP synergies that work very well together.
- Finally managed to take this deck out for a spin last weekend. Game one was actually piloted by a friend, and he managed to assemble a nice, steady air force that took out two of the three opponents before finally succumbing to a single large Gisela-fueled combat step. Game two, I over-extended horribly and ended up getting blown out by a well-timed Oblivion Stone that left me with three lands and no cards in hand.
- Teferi's Protection is the number one card on my wishlist for the entire format, and this deck is the front-runner to use it. Unfortunately, it's way too expensive and needs to be reprinted many, many times. Considering how many blowouts happened at the hands of O-Stone and Pernicious Deed this weekend, Boros Charm probably needs to come in. At one point during the second game, I considered adding a Stifle effect.
- The Sunforger package worked out pretty well. I consider it incidental in that nearly all of its targets are good enough to run with or without it, so it's just one card that happens to add extra value. This also basically describes the role of Isochron Scepter.
- Soulfire Grand Master and Elixir of Immortality are probably the two cuts to make.
I'm a big fan of stifle effects. They are by far the most clinically under played cards in not just this format, but others too. Just ask my modern deck, mr stifle 👀👀 (yes, I play main deck trickbind).

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WRKellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
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