Commander Staples from new Innistrad "Block"?

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RowanKeltizar
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

I'm kind of curious to see what everyone feels to be the new staples from the most recent Innistrad sets. I know we are all looking forward to the next set, but I don't want to sleep on Innistrad either.

I also am curious about Double Feature. This feels like a really awkward release. Last year's Halloween is ancient history and I think their timing for this set couldn't be worse. However, I think the foils from this set might be worth something if they are actually a different treatment process and I am curious to see how it will impact card prices from the previous 2 sets, especially for the pricery cards.

I always try to get a couple copies of all the new staple cards from each set when they hit their lowest point. That way I can have some on hand for building decks or for trading. I'm just wondering when the prices for these will hit their lowest point.


So the main cards i'm looking at are:

Hullbreaker Horror - crazy control engine. Flash and cannot be countered are fairly relevent. I see this as a win-con in the right deck.

Unnatural Growth - I foresee this being a staple for a long time. Super powerful card.

The Meathook Massacre - what? How is this balanced in any way. Major power creep here and I think the price confirms that.

Welcoming Vampire - decent white card draw. If nothing else it should be a Phyrexian Arena but gets better in certain decks.

New dual land cycle. Example: Rockfall Vale - I still think these are undervalued as a dual land. Sure, we have plenty of options now, but i think these are great for certain decks.

Full art lands. I know some people hate them, but I thick they look really unique. I have a full set of foils.

Cultivator Colossus this one feels a bit gimmicky to me. Not quite a format staple, but I could be wrong.

Necroduality - auto-include for a zombie deck right?

Toxrill, the Corrosive - I see this being a favorite commander for a long time.

Cemetery Prowler

Augur of Autumn

Vanquish the Horde - This seems to be a decent wipe for white. A two mana wrath of god? It's certainly no Toxic Deluge but I do see people running it.

Moonveil Regent I think this is better than people think. Play a card, draw a card has always been a good effect, but in red I think that's fairly unique. It's also good for decks that want to be discarding or hellbent.

Adeline, Resplendent Cathar I'm honestly amazed at how cheap this is. One of the best token producers around. I already got a copy for my boros deck, but I will probably pick up a few more.

Tovolar, Dire Overlord // Tovolar, the Midnight Scourge the werewolf commander. Not much else to say. I probably would have built a deck if he was Jund colors.

Rite of Harmony - seems very powerful with flashback

Liesa, Forgotten Archangel absolutely phenomenal in the right deck or as a commander.

Visions of Ruin

Gisa, Glorious Resurrector

Angelfire Ignition

Moonsilver Key not bad for a common.
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TheAmericanSpirit
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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 2 years ago

30 days after Double Feature drops would be my best guess. Drastic price corrections don't usually occur in the first two weeks because the market isn't sufficiently saturated, but 30 days tends to bring the mighty to their lowest. My other theory is that MNH and CSV copies will end up cheaper than DF copies, given the DF's shorter print run and slightly curated contents.
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Post by Sinis » 2 years ago

RowanKeltizar wrote:
2 years ago
I'm kind of curious to see what everyone feels to be the new staples from the most recent Innistrad sets. I know we are all looking forward to the next set, but I don't want to sleep on Innistrad either.
There are a lot of niche cards. I currently have a Sigarda, Champion of Light deck I play at lower power levels, and some like Katilda, Dawnhart Prime and Leinore, Autumn Sovereign/Kyler, Sigardan Emissary are all very good, but only in particular decks. Even Unnatural Growth has a demanding mana cost, and isn't for every deck.

Staples (maybe) I've bought:
Augur of Autumn: This card seems like fire; Coven is not hard to achieve, and it's pretty close to Courser the rest of the time (who is no slouch).
Morbid Opportunist: Currently in Jadar, this card is good. The only (roughly) duplicate functionality is Dark Prophecy, where you get to draw for non-tokens. The usual suspects (like Grim Haruspex and Midnight Reaper only deal in non-tokens).
Adeline, Resplendent Cathar: I don't expect the tokens to survive much, but this isn't nothing. I think they're appropriately costed, and even 'good'.
Malevolent Hermit // Benevolent Geist: I think this card is fire. I bought a playset. Two very good functionalities in one card.
Hullbreaker Horror: Seems good, hard to disagree with this.
Cathar Commando: instant speed Caustic Caterpillar. Seems legit, though may not be a staple considering the potency of other answers.
Welcoming Vampire: Got one, seems good, very much a staple in my future white decks. I play Mentor a lot.
Wash Away: I haven't bought them yet, but I will. They're too good to pass up, and will probably be a cEDH staple.
Mask of Griselbrand: Maybe not a staple, but this card has a lot going on. Comparable to Loxodon Warhammer with a big draw if you lose the creature.
Cultivator Colossus: I don't think this is a staple, because it's best in decks that draw a lot of cards and have a glut of lands, and that isn't every deck. It's not bad, but it's not for every deck, IMO.
Mirrorhall Mimic // Ghastly Mimicry: Clone with upside is okay, but you need to ask yourself if Vizier of Many Faces sees a lot of play. This is roughly equal, IMO.
Overcharged Amalgam: About 1 mana too costly, I bought one. It's not Disallow, but it's not nothing in the right deck.
By Invitation Only: A nice wipe that often breaches indestructible, but kind of niche: It really wants to be in go-wide decks. Totally better than most wipes we've seen recently.
Glorious Sunrise: Green's colour pie. Not in any of my decks at current, but could fit into any of them.
Thirst for Discovery: A replacement for Compulsive Research for sure, but I don't play that card often. Compulsive Research combos with Notion Thief (which this doesn't), so it's not 'strictly better'.
Ardent Elementalist: Archaeomancer for red. Totally worthwhile.
Prowling Geistcatcher: This card is bonkers, and I'm terrified for people to break it. It seems really good in any sacrifice-themed pile.
Spectral Adversary: I really like effects that let you 'save' your own guys. This can also remove potential blockers, or stall a combo. There's lots to like about this card.
Wedding Announcement // Wedding Festivity: A near-Military Intelligence for white, this card seems okay.

I think the thing I like the most about these sets is that there aren't a ton of staples. Lots of cards for niche or tribal decks, but not many auto-includes. I'd rather see helpers for particular decks than generically good cards (in any colour but white).

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Post by BeneTleilax » 2 years ago

By Invitation Only should not be slept on. Wx has so many ways to spam tokens or recur dorks, it is not hard to turn this into a plague wind, if not better (WBx with sac payoffs).

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Post by Serenade » 2 years ago

Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

EDIT: Looks like Double Feature definitely dropped the price of most cards. Hullbreaker Horror is sitting at just 5 bucks. The Meathook Massacre is 35. I expect them to drop more, yay!

Thanks for the contributions! I think we need to add in Wedding Ring and some of the commander set cards.

Umbris, Fear Manifest
Predators' Hour
Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver
Lynde, Cheerful Tormentor

I know there are others, but I just haven't looked through them all yet.

In the right deck Wedding Ring can do a lot of work. I've been using it in my artifacts only Atraxa build. Basically what happens is you "marry" the player drawing the most cards. Say the Korvold, Fae-Cursed King player. It acts as a bit a stax piece in that they will need to think twice before setting off their draw engines, but in some cases the draw trigger ISN'T a may ability so they have no choice. In this scenario, you draw very few cards on your OWN turn, limiting the benefit they get from their copy. When you have draw effects that are "may"s or that you can turn off this is ideal.

I really see this getting slotted into a lot of niche type of decks or in decks where your commander isn't a draw engine. I wouldn't hesitate to put it in most mono white or boros decks.
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Post by Hawk » 2 years ago

I haven't had a chance yet to pick up a ton but a few stand-outs I mean to are...

9/10 Staples that should be in most decks of the color identity:
- Infernal Grasp: Arguably the best black removal spell in the format. Close to autoinclude in any monoblack or two-colored black deck, and likely still in heavy contention even in a three color deck.
- Fateful Absence: This is only like the 4th or 5th best white removal spell of all time, but it is still very good and merits heavy consideration in most mono-white, Boros, Selsnya, and Azorius decks.
- Vanquish the Horde: One of the stronger boardwipes in recent memory. Personally I think this is worse than Wrath of God and Hour of Revelation but not massively so, and it is stronger than basically all other white boardwipes.
- Wash Away: Probably just misses the top five list of best counters in the format, but if I'm running any counters I tend to like to run 7+ to make sure people respect my islands and this is very good especially if your budget doesn't allow for Force of Will, Mana Drain, and Fierce Guardianship.

7/10 Cards - Archetype Staples and Glue Cards:
- Storm of Souls: A neat white "reanimator" card, sort of unprecedented. Incredible in spirits, and interesting in blink decks. This covers enough of what W/x decks are often doing in EDH to merit some heavy attention.
- Reckless Impulse: This is probably usually better than Cathartic Reunion or Tormenting Voice if you just wanted to see more cards and didn't necessarily care about the discard. It's one of the more stable "impulsive draw" spells ever printed and I suspect over time folks are going to regard it a lot like Sign in Blood and Night's Whisper - not the kind of card you slam in every deck, but a very nice glue card that often makes it into the 99 of especially mono decks to help smooth out opening hands. Added synergy with Prosper, Tome-Bound and other "exile matters" stuff puts it over the top.
- Welcoming Vampire: This is at least even with Mentor of the Meek and possibly better; lots of white decks run a significant weenie quotient and this is an auto-include in those decks.
- Consider: Just outside the top 5 of "one MV Cantrips" in blue, but enough decks want cantrips to merit some, well, consideration.
- Morbid Opportunist: This is mostly worse than Midnight Reaper and Grim Haruspex although not strictly so (since it triggers off opposing deaths and tokens). It's still quite good in any arisocrat-y black deck (which is a lot of them).
- The Meathook Massacre: It's a possible (bad) boardwipe attached to a harder-to-remove Bastion of Remembrance/Blood Artist type effect. It's great if you can afford it.
- The Slowlands (Deathcap Glade, Deserted Beach etc): These are very solid duals in EDH - I'd put them outside the top 5 imo for the average player, but they are still rock solid and budget-wise they will come in cheaper than the Battlebond lands, ABU Duals, Shocks, Fetches, and some Checklands. They aren't necessarily "budget friendly", but they are good.
- Hullbreaker Horror: Once upon a time Tidespout Tyrant was the de facto good stuff top end for U/x decks. Those days are long gone, but this card is a dramatic improvement over Tidespout - biggier, flashier, uncounterable, better typeline, and able to fizzle spells as well as unsummon threats for one less mana. It's not stricly better, but it's practically better enough to be a great card. The added value of this as a reanimator target, Sea Monsters top-end, and great tool in flash/control decks gets it this rating.
- Fell Stinger - fail rate is a Painful Lesson but this is often so much better, with a relevant typeline.
- Cathar Commando - it's a flashy Caustic Caterpillar in two of Whites favorite types. Solid roleplayer.


These sets are stacked with tons of other great cards, but those are the staples I'd be confident will find play in tons of decks compared to the more niche tribal-centric or "great in one specific Commander" stuff.

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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

Wow, I'm actually pretty surprised with the number of usuable cards from these two sets. I should pick up copies of Infernal Grasp and Fateful Absence. Solid spot removal and I think I could find homes for both in my Elenda, the Dusk Rose deck that doesn't really like exile effects.

I find myself dissapointed we didn't get any reprints from OG Innistrad sets with Double Feature. I think that product really missed the mark but could have been great with just a few tweaks. How cool would it have been to get reprints of things like Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Avacyn, Angel of Hope Snapcaster Mage Exquisite Blood with a new frame?

I'm not a huge fan of the pure greyscale. I think if they had done something like this instead, people would have gone nuts:
SPOILER
Show
Hide
Image
I wouldn't expect the entire set to be that way, but some of the mythics and rares and of course the non-existant reprints. Basically a "showcase" variant specifically for that set with unique greyscale art, unique card frame and text, with a slash of solid color in the art.


If I had to pick ten cards to purchase by the end of Feb, it would be:

Hullbreaker Horror
The Meathook Massacre
Wedding Ring
Augur of Autumn
Welcoming Vampire
Consider
Unnatural Growth
Toxrill, the Corrosive
Necroduality
By Invitation Only

Now, I'm largely going by price here. There are many more that are less than $5 that are still worth picking up, but these seem the most likely to spike later on, due to demand and availability.

Short list of cards I personally really like that aren't above:

Adeline, Resplendent Cathar
Dire-Strain Rampage
Cemetery Prowler
Moonveil Regent
Vanquish the Horde
Tovolar, Dire Overlord // Tovolar, the Midnight Scourge
Liesa, Forgotten Archangel
Visions of Ruin
Gisa, Glorious Resurrector
Morbid Opportunist

I honestly don't like Wash Away that much. Most of the time I think I'd rather just have a Counterspell. I can see it being good in cEDH though.
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