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duducrash
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Post by duducrash » 2 weeks ago



Recent Command Zone podcast adressing current status of the game. Really interesting

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Treamayne
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Post by Treamayne » 2 weeks ago

Is there a text version?
V/R

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duducrash
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Post by duducrash » 2 weeks ago

Treamayne wrote:
2 weeks ago
Is there a text version?
Couldnt find. But there is a audio only version

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Post by PrimevalCommander » 2 weeks ago

Good video, I agree with many of their points, which doesn't happen all that often. Wizards needs to pump the brakes with all the pushed overpowered cards and get to reprinting some of these chase cards that they trickle into the market in limited numbers.

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Post by Mookie » 2 weeks ago

tl;dw:
  • The format is speeding up - games are ending on earlier turns
  • The rate at which the format is speeding up has increased recently due to power creep
  • The faster / more efficient the format becomes, the fewer cards are viable... which is sort of against the spirit of the EDH
  • The 2 mana (or less) ramp slot is saturated - we don't need any new ones printed
  • Treasures are also speeding up the format, by allowing big spells to be played earlier
  • Stop printing cards like Urza, Lord High Artificer and Jeska's Will that provide both mana and card draw
  • Tutors also speed up the format / make it more homogeneous
  • No more free spells (like Fierce Guardianship / Force of Negation)
  • Be careful with cheap (MV1-3) commanders
  • Green doesn't need more card draw (see prior point re: not mixing ramp + card draw, just applied to an entire color)
  • No more 'fake' 5-color commanders (like Kenrith, the Returned King) - if it's 5C, it should cost WUBRG.
  • Add more ways to punish the above effects (ex: hating on cheap ramp / free spells / etc)
  • More diverse win conditions / mechanics to reward players that don't require victory (ex: completing a dungeon)
  • Ignore the above critiques for mono-white, which still needs help - not in the crazy bomb category, but in the bread-and-butter 'this makes any deck run smoother' area. Think Cultivate.
  • When making white cards, consider making them cost WW to make them less splashable - otherwise they just benefit the 3/4/5C decks.
  • More ways to reward playing expensive commanders
  • Pull back on making multiplayer-relevant commanders by having them trigger on each players' turn (ex: Toxrill, the Corrosive, Koma, Cosmos Serpent)
  • More monarch
  • Reprint more Commander-deck-only cards (ex: Dockside Extortionist) - they tend to end up being extremely expensive due to limited availability
I'll agree with pretty much all of the points they've raised. I might disagree a bit with the point re: treasures, but that's probably just because my meta looks different from theirs, so I haven't seen as many treasures.

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Post by DirkGently » 2 weeks ago

Their propensity for hyperbole is irritating to me. "We can't even play 6 drops anymore!" vs "All these treasures are letting people ramp out early eldrazi!" Well which one is it?

And maybe it's just my collection of ABU duals but whenever someone says "I know, we can fix the power level of 5 color by making the commanders cost wubrg! and make cards cost 2 colored pips instead of 1 so it's impossible to splash them!" I can't stop rolling my eyes.

Maybe it's selfish of me, but I don't like reprinting powerhouse cards either. A lot of what keeps those cards from being more ubiquitous is their cost. We're not playing a competitive format where access to cards is necessary to play. The reality on the ground is that, as busted as mana crypt is, it actually impacts very few games because so few people have it. Reprint a problematic card into the dirt and the problem gets much worse. I don't think people appreciate how many cards would probably need to be banned if they were widely available. Rarity keeps the banlist from being a thousand cards long. Is that a fair system? Not really, but as I said, it's not a competitive format.
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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 2 weeks ago

I feel like the CZ is pretty hypocritical in this statement. Their show was one of the first major EDH-centric things on youtube, and through their podcast, they've spent years encouraging greater deck construction efficiency and advertising many cards as Must Play Staples. Heck, even their gameplay videos (aside from the precon episodes) are showing a fairly high level of casual commander.

Basically, they spent years accelerating the format and NOW it's too far? This is what happens when people have no incentive for self-control and every advantage to be gained by pushing envelopes. These
[redacted]
introduced cats into the Hawai'ian ecosystem and now all those beautiful, rare birds of paradise are extinct! They helped piss the bed we're all sleeping in and now they want to complain about wet sheets! Screw 'em.

EDH is getting a lot of doomsayers lately. We may be in the twilight of our great format as we knew it. I can't say I enjoy the modern pace as much as the meandering rate of yesteryear.
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Post by Krensh » 2 weeks ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 weeks ago
Maybe it's selfish of me, but I don't like reprinting powerhouse cards either. A lot of what keeps those cards from being more ubiquitous is their cost. We're not playing a competitive format where access to cards is necessary to play. The reality on the ground is that, as busted as mana crypt is, it actually impacts very few games because so few people have it. Reprint a problematic card into the dirt and the problem gets much worse. I don't think people appreciate how many cards would probably need to be banned if they were widely available. Rarity keeps the banlist from being a thousand cards long. Is that a fair system? Not really, but as I said, it's not a competitive format.
Caveat: I have not listened to the thing, I just read the bullet point summary earlier in the thread

I don't think people are saying "reprint Mana Crypt and Gaea's Cradle" (although, personal hot take: the reserve list is stupid), I think people are saying "Reprint Dockside Extortionist and Jeska's Will" so they don't cost $30 each. *Because* it's a non-competitive format, I don't see the harm in printing cards often enough no Commander-specific card costs more than $15.

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Post by toctheyounger » 2 weeks ago

Krensh wrote:
2 weeks ago
DirkGently wrote:
2 weeks ago
Maybe it's selfish of me, but I don't like reprinting powerhouse cards either. A lot of what keeps those cards from being more ubiquitous is their cost. We're not playing a competitive format where access to cards is necessary to play. The reality on the ground is that, as busted as mana crypt is, it actually impacts very few games because so few people have it. Reprint a problematic card into the dirt and the problem gets much worse. I don't think people appreciate how many cards would probably need to be banned if they were widely available. Rarity keeps the banlist from being a thousand cards long. Is that a fair system? Not really, but as I said, it's not a competitive format.
Caveat: I have not listened to the thing, I just read the bullet point summary earlier in the thread

I don't think people are saying "reprint Mana Crypt and Gaea's Cradle" (although, personal hot take: the reserve list is stupid), I think people are saying "Reprint Dockside Extortionist and Jeska's Will" so they don't cost $30 each. *Because* it's a non-competitive format, I don't see the harm in printing cards often enough no Commander-specific card costs more than $15.
I'm pretty alright with this myself. Theres a whole lot of stuff out there that is out of my range and I'd like access to. But I definitely don't need ABUR's or Cradles or the ilk. Its actually more galling when modern printed cards are unattainable, to me. And even more galling when they're overly used to sell packs.

I mostly agree with the points brought up. I think they were a little pedantic about 2 cmc rocks, I just don't think its a hill to die on, and I wasn't really a fan of a lot of the language they used around cedh. Its not a bogeyman, and most of that community deserves to not be referred to derogatively. It might not have been intentional but it certainly came off that way to me. I've no skin in that game, I don't pkay the format. But I know enough people who do and they're decent folk who aren't trying to ruin anyone's day.

Two points I'm very glad they brought up:

Treasures, because dockside is just %$#% to me. I hate what it costs to buy, to cast and how ubiquitous it is. Theres literally no reason (other than your wallet) not to run it, and as soon as it hit play its a race to clone it or bounce it. I don't think it will ever be banned but I wouldn't be sad to see it go. That said things have been banned in the past for this exact scenario - prophet and prime time specifically.

Secondly, %$#%$#% do people ever need to stop seeing control/hatebears etc as the villain. People are quick to complain about egregious misbalance of resources (see paragraph above for a hypocrite in action) when the tools to curb that behavior already exist in the format. The choices are put your big boy pants on and use them, get used to them and learn that not everything is hard stax, or ask people not to play. If you're not going to police people getting countless treasures or going off early that's exactly what they're going to do. Come prepared. I just don't get why people are so timid to use these things.
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Post by Venedrex » 2 weeks ago

One point I appreciated was what they mentioned about rewarding high mana value commanders. I think having more cards that scale based on commander mana value would be quite good for the format. Also agree with not making more free spells that reward you for low mv commanders, or just free spells in general.

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Post by DirkGently » 2 weeks ago

I forgot about the 2 cmc rock thing. Ship has sailed on that one imo. Printing another 2cmc rock isn't going to make much of a difference unless it has extra utility. So, fine, don't push utlity+ 2cmc rocks, but another Fractured Powerstone isn't going to matter a bit.
Krensh wrote:
2 weeks ago
Caveat: I have not listened to the thing, I just read the bullet point summary earlier in the thread

I don't think people are saying "reprint Mana Crypt and Gaea's Cradle" (although, personal hot take: the reserve list is stupid), I think people are saying "Reprint Dockside Extortionist and Jeska's Will" so they don't cost $30 each. *Because* it's a non-competitive format, I don't see the harm in printing cards often enough no Commander-specific card costs more than $15.
I don't see how anyone can say "these cards are problematically powerful" and then also say "more people should have access to them". Either pov in isolation I understand, but both together I do not.
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Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
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Post by Treamayne » 2 weeks ago

duducrash wrote:
2 weeks ago
Couldnt find. But there is a audio only version
Thank you for looking.

Seems a bit lazy to me though.

If they can pull the audio from the video for a separate option, why not play the video into speech-to-text and have a text transcript?
Mookie wrote:
2 weeks ago
tl;dw:
Spoiler
Show
  • The format is speeding up - games are ending on earlier turns
  • The rate at which the format is speeding up has increased recently due to power creep
  • The faster / more efficient the format becomes, the fewer cards are viable... which is sort of against the spirit of the EDH
  • The 2 mana (or less) ramp slot is saturated - we don't need any new ones printed
  • Treasures are also speeding up the format, by allowing big spells to be played earlier
  • Stop printing cards like Urza, Lord High Artificer and Jeska's Will that provide both mana and card draw
  • Tutors also speed up the format / make it more homogeneous
  • No more free spells (like Fierce Guardianship / Force of Negation)
  • Be careful with cheap (MV1-3) commanders
  • Green doesn't need more card draw (see prior point re: not mixing ramp + card draw, just applied to an entire color)
  • No more 'fake' 5-color commanders (like Kenrith, the Returned King) - if it's 5C, it should cost WUBRG.
  • Add more ways to punish the above effects (ex: hating on cheap ramp / free spells / etc)
  • More diverse win conditions / mechanics to reward players that don't require victory (ex: completing a dungeon)
  • Ignore the above critiques for mono-white, which still needs help - not in the crazy bomb category, but in the bread-and-butter 'this makes any deck run smoother' area. Think Cultivate.
  • When making white cards, consider making them cost WW to make them less splashable - otherwise they just benefit the 3/4/5C decks.
  • More ways to reward playing expensive commanders
  • Pull back on making multiplayer-relevant commanders by having them trigger on each players' turn (ex: Toxrill, the Corrosive, Koma, Cosmos Serpent)
  • More monarch
  • Reprint more Commander-deck-only cards (ex: Dockside Extortionist) - they tend to end up being extremely expensive due to limited availability
I'll agree with pretty much all of the points they've raised. I might disagree a bit with the point re: treasures, but that's probably just because my meta looks different from theirs, so I haven't seen as many treasures.
Thank you for the summary.

The point I primarily disagree with is on "fake 5-color." Though I would like to see some 2 or 3 color generals with off-color activation costs to make them 4 or 5 color, just being a WUBRG based on the text box isn't automatically bad. Kenrith is egregious because of the abilities combined with the CMC and access to all 5 colors. Morophon isn't bad because his colors come from the text box, and I don't recall any major grief over General Tazri or Codie, Vociferous Codex.
toctheyounger wrote:
2 weeks ago
Secondly, %$#%$#% do people ever need to stop seeing control/hatebears etc as the villain. People are quick to complain about egregious misbalance of resources (see paragraph above for a hypocrite in action) when the tools to curb that behavior already exist in the format. The choices are put your big boy pants on and use them, get used to them and learn that not everything is hard stax, or ask people not to play. If you're not going to police people getting countless treasures or going off early that's exactly what they're going to do. Come prepared. I just don't get why people are so timid to use these things.
I'm sorry, but I disagree here, in part.

I agree that "Moderation in all things. . ." is a thing, and just having one or two "hatebears" is not the same as Stax. However, I do not think we really have the tools we need to "balance" the rampant ramp either. Answers there are pretty much symmetrical (with a few Curse Auras that don't quite help).

Where's the "target player" version of Ruination? Even better, "target player with the most lands." Or a Seeds of Innocence for target player that only destroys all artifacts with mana abilities?

The problem I see with most "answers" for ramp is they usually do more damage to the casual players at the table, and only slow the ramp player a turn or three. We need tools that can target the ramp player(s) directly without affecting the casual/mana screwed players. Even some Windfall-esque "catch-up" cards would help. How much more "leveling" would it be if From the Ashes had every player search for a number of basic lands equal to the greatest number destroyed (so that the ramp player is at the same number of lands - 1:1, but the mana screwed player, who may have only lost 1 or 2 lands can search up 5 basics because that's how many the ramp player lost)?
DirkGently wrote:
2 weeks ago
I forgot about the 2 cmc rock thing. Ship has sailed on that one imo. Printing another 2cmc rock isn't going to make much of a difference unless it has extra utility. So, fine, don't push utility+ 2cmc rocks, but another Fractured Powerstone isn't going to matter a bit.
Krensh wrote:
2 weeks ago
Caveat: I have not listened to the thing, I just read the bullet point summary earlier in the thread

I don't think people are saying "reprint Mana Crypt and Gaea's Cradle" (although, personal hot take: the reserve list is stupid), I think people are saying "Reprint Dockside Extortionist and Jeska's Will" so they don't cost $30 each. *Because* it's a non-competitive format, I don't see the harm in printing cards often enough no Commander-specific card costs more than $15.
I don't see how anyone can say "these cards are problematically powerful" and then also say "more people should have access to them". Either pov in isolation I understand, but both together I do not.
Re: Rocks - more incentivized 3cmc (or more) might be nice. Things like Powerstone Shard, Replicating Ring, and Gemstone Array are situationally good in the right decks. So "less generically good rocks" and "more situational rocks" is my summary of the issue.

I think those examples were given more as an "easily recognized" Commander-product-only. While I agree more of the egregious offenders might not be a Good Thingtm, I also would not mind seeing cycles like Join Forces (e.g. Collective Voyage) and Tempt (e.g. Tempt with Glory) get some reprints. Also, Foil-only releases from commander product should get some non-foil reprints.
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Post by toctheyounger » 2 weeks ago

Treamayne wrote:
2 weeks ago
'm sorry, but I disagree here, in part
Snipped for space. You're not entirely wrong, but there are more options than you'd think. Not a ton, but some. I would like to see more.

Regardless, Collector Ouphe, Karn, the Great Creator, Cursed Totem, Eye of Singularity, Hushbringer et al, March of the Machines, Wave of Vitriol, Scrap Mastery,Tragic Arrogance and sometimes humility style effects (either as single target or more global) all either render treasure useless or stop it being generated at all. Now, you're not wrong, these can hurt the table in general. And if you're stacking them up it can get a little miserable, but usually these sort of effects will hit the player 'going off' much harder than the relative minnows at the table. There are exceptions, but none of this stuff is terribly oppressive, nor expensive, nor.miserable to play through, excluding the concept of breaking symmetry, for example Karn/Lattice. As tools to negate disgusting amounts of treasure generation this stuff generally either works, or forces the hoarder to use it or lose it at an inopportune time.

Funnily enough, thinking on it a lot of traditional legitimate stax pieces don't really affect treasure at all. The spheres, sure, but Orb and Stasis don't really put the pinch on.

I definitely agree that there's not a lot, and I agree that judicious use is what targets the right player, but people sort of act like a) there's nothing to be done about treasure and b) all control pieces are villainous, abd neither of those things are true. The community needs to stop brewing in a vacuum and include more aggressive hampering options. I've used most of the options I've mentioned above, and the results have generally been pretty solid and mostly considered fair once I break it down for the table.
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Post by duducrash » 2 weeks ago

Two cmc ramp with upside is nuts. Liquimetal torque was a mistake. One thing that sucks is how they are printing overall good cards vs cards thay are good in specific niches, arcane signet, sol ring, signets, torque. It makes it a bunch too linear to my own teste. I understand some people just wanna get the deck and play, but I personally would enjoy if I had to catter my ramp towards my own strategy.

I think it was Nice mentioning treasures, it can go crazy fast. Hope the design go easy on the design in the feature

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Post by Jemolk » 2 weeks ago

Probably a pretty lukewarm take, but 2cmc rocks shouldn't get any better than Star Compass for colored mana, or Mind Stone for utility. Thought Vessel is also probably fine, but stuff like Arcane Signet shouldn't exist, or should at the very least etb tapped, and Liquimetal Torque should cost 3.

The "fake 5-color" thing isn't something that concerns me at all. There are fake 5c commanders that are problem cards, but at least in my experience, that's never the problem. The problem is just that they do too much.

For the overly expensive, overly powerful cards -- I'd rather have them available, but have people simply choose not to break the game in half. If someone wants to play Dockside in a Pirate Tribal deck, they should feel free to do so, especially if they have other treasure synergies because of pirates. Playing it just as a generically good card is where I think people should hold themselves back, rather than being forcibly held back by price. That's neither a very equitable nor a very stable means of keeping power level in check. Hell, if you want to proxy a Dockside Extortionist, or even a Gaea's Cradle, as long as you're not trying to do it for just generic power in a generically powerful goodstuff deck, I think you should have at it. Just make sure you're doing something that's interesting for everyone else in the game, rather than just you, and also not drastically out-powering the rest of the table, and you're fine IMHO.

I think a greater problem is the goodstuff, "value" mentality, and it's one that the Command Zone, and Josh in particular, kind of pushes, intentionally or not. The "but how can I not, it's so much value" type of thinking, as SPBKASO would probably phrase it -- because, as much as I love watching the Goldfish crew, they also fall into that trap far too eagerly. A format like Commander requires some degree of self-control, especially while deckbuilding, to be at its best, and that needs to be explicitly encouraged, rather than tacitly discouraged.
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Post by Vertierer » 2 weeks ago

I think that the overall situation is a little more complicated. While I totally agree that Wotc and anyone and everything affiliated with cardsales (including a lot of content creators, whose content is going to streamline an itself divers "format", e.g. Command Zone pissing the bed so we have to walk around in wet pants - love that analogy :D) are pushing the envelope a little to much in regards to product quantity and quality, the players aren't obliged to follow that principle. Yes, I like playing with powerfull new cards, but I'm the master of my own actions and don't have to buy everything Wotc&Co. is thowing at me. If that means that I only have 2-3 decks and have to communicate with my playgroup on a regular basis regarding the health of our playing experience, than so be it. The amount of internet content regarding mtg is concerning, as it creates a permanent Fear Of Missing-Out and scenarios that are not representive of your own playgroup/environment. As cool as some of the new cards are, just practise a little bit more self-restraint instead of solely blaming Wotc for pushing the format. That doesn't negate the need for contructive critique, though.

To put it in a nutshell: MTG is just like online dating. You can just go around getting laid with all the new singles in your area, or have a deeper relationship with a little improvements time at a time. Both options are valid, but please don't blame Tinder for your own actions :D
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Post by Krensh » 2 weeks ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 weeks ago
I forgot about the 2 cmc rock thing. Ship has sailed on that one imo. Printing another 2cmc rock isn't going to make much of a difference unless it has extra utility. So, fine, don't push utlity+ 2cmc rocks, but another Fractured Powerstone isn't going to matter a bit.
Krensh wrote:
2 weeks ago
Caveat: I have not listened to the thing, I just read the bullet point summary earlier in the thread

I don't think people are saying "reprint Mana Crypt and Gaea's Cradle" (although, personal hot take: the reserve list is stupid), I think people are saying "Reprint Dockside Extortionist and Jeska's Will" so they don't cost $30 each. *Because* it's a non-competitive format, I don't see the harm in printing cards often enough no Commander-specific card costs more than $15.
I don't see how anyone can say "these cards are problematically powerful" and then also say "more people should have access to them". Either pov in isolation I understand, but both together I do not.
Not sure if you're specifically interested in the opinion of the folks that did the "Dear Commander design team" or my point of view, but in the off chance you wanted more detail on my stance:

- I think that cards should be less generically powerful, especially if they're easily splashable. Dockside Extortionist comes up a lot in this thread; I would probably not have printed it myself, but if I were going to, I would have made it cost triple red.
- If you are going to have cards like that, I think they should be reprinted often enough that they cost less than $20. Obviously WotC's primary interest is making money, but mine is having a fun accessible game.
- So, to specifically respond to your point about "How can you think both these things at once?" I would say that basically since there ARE such powerful cards, there should be more widespread access to them. For instance, I think it's actually kind of egregious they have not reprinted Ur-Dragon outside of a Secret Lair, given that kids want to play a cool dragon deck! That card costs like $50 or more! If you don't want to reprint that, fine, but then print an affordable 5c dragon commander.

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Sinis
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Post by Sinis » 2 weeks ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 weeks ago
Their propensity for hyperbole is irritating to me. "We can't even play 6 drops anymore!" vs "All these treasures are letting people ramp out early eldrazi!" Well which one is it?
Yeah, I noticed that dissonance as well. It was right after they said they couldn't cast 6-mana spells that they said someone used Treasure to leverage an 8-mana spell, and I was thinking "So, you are still playing 6 mana spells."

Also, their gameplay on Game Knights pretty much shows that they really are still playing big-n-splashy spells. In their Midnight Hunt Episode, Jimmy leverages someone else's Selvala's Stampede, and is totally playing a Sheoldred, Whispering One, Consecrated Sphinx, and probably others.
The reality on the ground is that, as busted as mana crypt is, it actually impacts very few games because so few people have it.
I'm definitely on side with this idea. Among the people I know, only a few of us own Mana Crypts, and we don't generally play them. If Mana Crypt got reprinted in commander precons, they'd be banned in pretty short order, IMO.

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Post by DirkGently » 2 weeks ago

Krensh wrote:
2 weeks ago
Not sure if you're specifically interested in the opinion of the folks that did the "Dear Commander design team" or my point of view, but in the off chance you wanted more detail on my stance:

- I think that cards should be less generically powerful, especially if they're easily splashable. Dockside Extortionist comes up a lot in this thread; I would probably not have printed it myself, but if I were going to, I would have made it cost triple red.
- If you are going to have cards like that, I think they should be reprinted often enough that they cost less than $20. Obviously WotC's primary interest is making money, but mine is having a fun accessible game.
- So, to specifically respond to your point about "How can you think both these things at once?" I would say that basically since there ARE such powerful cards, there should be more widespread access to them. For instance, I think it's actually kind of egregious they have not reprinted Ur-Dragon outside of a Secret Lair, given that kids want to play a cool dragon deck! That card costs like $50 or more! If you don't want to reprint that, fine, but then print an affordable 5c dragon commander.
I don't think anyone is saying ur-dragon is egregiously powerful. If it's not obnoxious then print away I suppose.

I guess stuff like dockside fits into a low enough band that many people have access but many still don't, which can create a real power imbalance that exists in normal games. As compared to stuff like Cradle, where hardly anyone has them, so despite being broken AF they don't actually cause many problems irl.

Edit: that said, I think part of the fun of a tcg as compared to a lcg is the collecting aspect, and some cards being hard to acquire is part of that. Ofc the cradles of the world are the most rare, but dockside is more of a stepping stone rare. Something a newer player might be proud of.

I'll agree that cash money isn't my favourite way to decide who gets the rare cards, but that's capitalism for you.
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Post by Krensh » 2 weeks ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 weeks ago

Edit: that said, I think part of the fun of a tcg as compared to a lcg is the collecting aspect, and some cards being hard to acquire is part of that. Ofc the cradles of the world are the most rare, but dockside is more of a stepping stone rare. Something a newer player might be proud of.

I'll agree that cash money isn't my favourite way to decide who gets the rare cards, but that's capitalism for you.
super agree about the collecting aspect, and I'm really excited that they seemed to have leaned into alternate art for many cards. I feel like an ideal would be having a base version of a card be affordable or semi-affordable, and then some very rare alt versions. Secret Lairs are great, they should do more of them, and the special card frames in each set I think are also good.

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Post by DirkGently » 2 weeks ago

Not a fan of the secret lair model at all. Cuts out LGSs and it's print to demand so it's only rare if people don't like it.

Alternate arts in packs is cool, though a lot of the time it ends up being about the same rarity/value so it's not much of a trophy.

The only real trophies are old reserved list stuff imo. New shiny crap can't hold a candle to a good vintage. When I look at my time twister I think "we are simply passing through history… this - this IS history."
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Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
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Post by toctheyounger » 2 weeks ago

Honeslty anyone in the game for collecting is here for the wrong reasons. We all like to flex a little, but ultimately the whole rarity thing comes down not to how much money it puts in your pocket or how much it sparkles but how well it plays, and it can be a little frustrating not having access to some of the most powerful stuff ever printed.

All that said, I feel like theres really not much the have nots are missing out on these days. Theres functionally similar reprints about, but otherwise in general you really don't miss a ton of power for not having ABUR's or a Timetwister or what have you. There are pieces of tech that can't be had any other way or that are integral to builds here and there, but not as many as you'd think. And you really don't need them to win games. It does feel bad going up against a fully specced motor thousand dollar build with your modern jank, but it doesn't happen to me that often, and when it does, the disparity in power generally isn't particularly tangible.

I still think the RL is stupid, but as far as reprints and future reprints go, I'd be just as happy to see them make the newer chase cards more available- Dockside, TNN, the Ikoria free cycle, Teferi's Protection etc all feel bad at least in part because if you didn't get them right off the bat you pay a premium or you miss out. Including them in set boosters as well as precons or more readily available reprints or...something...would probably go a long way to just making the format feel a bit less like a finance marathon.
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Post by DirkGently » 2 weeks ago

Personally I think the format is in a pretty solid place in terms of card availability. There are few "stretch goal" cards that are popular but mildly expensive, but you can easily build a strong deck for a very low cost - precons are quite capable of beating an average playgroup when played well, in my experience, and you can improve them quite a bit without paying more than a few bucks per card.

Most of the really pricey stuff is either pretty marginal improvements (abu duals) or niche stuff (timetwister, tabernacle, bazaar) which is mostly cool to justify playing and neat to see on the table. The main exception that comes to mind is cradle which is outrageously powerful as well as quite expensive.
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Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
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Post by UnfulfilledDesires » 2 weeks ago

I haven't been playing EDH much since the pandemic began, though I keep working on my decks. I've been wondering whether the friendly, slow-paced games I remember still exist. Before the virus hit, I'd seen decks become more & more powerful locally. It got to the point that "casual" games still involved multiple players trying to combo off by turn five (or earlier). However, the games I played at an LGS in late spring or early summer least year struck me as truly casual. A store employee told me they had taken version measures to make sure people didn't run tuned combo decks in the casual Commander events.

I watched the Rules Committee's stream the other night & found myself pleasantly surprised by the relaxed game I saw unfold. I'm confident the early turns were the least eventful I've ever observed or participated in. The Alibou, Ancient Witness player got a fast start but then held back on attacks. Those folks ran cards I hadn't seen for years, like Seedguide Ash, Draining Whelk, & Gather Specimens.

I'm optimistic the format continues to contain a diversity of approaches & that it's just about making sure everyone's on the same page in any given game. I enjoy the full range of EDH, from true cEDH to slow & friendly to fast & tuned.

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Post by DirkGently » 2 weeks ago

UnfulfilledDesires wrote:
2 weeks ago
but then held back on attacks.
Ew.
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Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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