Need a solution (Too many cards)

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Gashnaw
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Post by Gashnaw » 2 years ago

So i have an issue. EDH is 100 cards. That is fine, But I already have a 100 card deck focused on dragon tribal. Its good (Not oppressively and I have had it since Ur dragon came out (Most decks last a few months. I still love this deck. My second longest living deck was arcum Daggson and Slivers, both a little over 2 years))

But this set and a few previous ones) have given some nice dragon additions, and aside from a select few cards in my deck, replacing cards actually weakens the deck. Hellkite Charger makes it weaker (Doesn't synergize well. it works but 7 mana...), But then you have cards like Tiamat, Old Gnawbone, Beledros Witherbloom.
They might not synergize, but now they do with Hellkite charger. I am stuck. How do i remove cards to make room for these ones, or even better, how do i make mutiple dragon decks on a budget? (Might have sell my Power artifcat and grim monolith after all.

so what is your solution when cards are wanted to make multiple deck or fit in your deck but most options hinder it. (Gonna be tough to fit 4 dragons into ur-dragon when only two cards feel can be replaced.)


My dragon deck, if you are curious.
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/nest-of-the-ur-dragon/
Last edited by Gashnaw 2 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Outcryqq
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Post by Outcryqq » 2 years ago

How competitive is your deck? If you're just wanting a mid power deck, I'd cut some tutors to make way for more synergistic cards: Vampiric Tutor , Sarkhan's Triumph, Demonic Tutor, and Tooth and Nail would give way to the four you listed.

If you're stuck on your tutors, I'd cut Crucible of Fire (are your losses because your dragons aren't big enough?), Urza's Incubator (cost reduction alone doesn't seem worth a lot - all your other cost reducers do something in addition to that), Rite of Replication (your strongest dragons are generally legendary, which doesn't play particularly well with copying, unless you use one of the many new clone versions that don't care about legendary...), and Clever Impersonator (same reason).

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EonAon
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Post by EonAon » 2 years ago

Well for budgetary concerns I would wait two weeks from now. Thats going to be the time when the cards are going to either flux up or down (mostly down) the most then you can find out the prices overall. DO NOT PREORDER. Right now there is hype, admittedly for the average player of magic its kinda low. For the D&D players that have always kinda wanted to see what MTG is about...it imagine its either split down the middle or 20, 30%. But hype falls dramatically once product hits the shelves and the whales that have bought cases (not boxes) are trying to divest of all the extra they dont need.

The only thing I might recommend, assuming you have seen it, is buying the AFR Draconic Rage Commander deck when it comes out if whats inside it has enough of product you dont already have that would be either be unique or useful to this or other decks you might have. Everything else should be looked at on the 30th.

I tell you now, old Gnawbone will either be very good or very cheap. Yes the ability to have all creatures create treasure when they hit is EXTREMELY good ramp. Problem is that unless you cheat it into play its a 7 drop. Then you have to figure out what your going to use that mana FOR. There are alot of broken things it could do but will it be enough that it can go the distance. The ones you REALLY want to keep a eye on are the white and black mythic dragons since they curve in a tribal deck that has a high curve.

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Igzex
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Post by Igzex » 2 years ago

Honestly I'd only run tutors if your deck has specific pieces you absolutely need to get consistently. In something like a dragon beatdown, I favor drawing multiple cards because you need to draw both dragons and lands constantly. You cannot ever, ever miss a land drop in a mana hungry 5 color deck. You also need to be able to throw down a constant stream of dragons because like in the fairy tales of old, the sight of even one dragon will cause the world to unite in trying to slay that dragon. You need draw into a quantity to the point of being resilient against removal but not so much that you are bricking your hand in the earlier stages. I run 24 in my old build and I still think I might be running too much.

When it comes to which dragons I select, I like to experiment with my dragons and remember the combat data I have collected from each game. Which ones have put in the most work or provided the most utility? For example, I was excited to actually open a Nicol Bolas, the Ravager // Nicol Bolas, the Arisen but as I played with it I eventually came to the conclusion that if you are not planning to abuse the everloving heck out of its ETB then he honestly offers the deck very little for the amount of justified hate he draws so he eventually parted from my deck and returned to my dragon card gallery. For another example, I thought Ojutai, Soul of Winter is too slow and expensive to cast at a glance but I found that freezing your opponent's chump blockers or even a particularly dangerous threat they wanted to kill you with is worth the mana cost so I run him to this day.

As for making more than one dragon deck to play with more varieties of dragons during a game day, if you don't want to spend a ton of money on another 5 color manabase I'd advise maybe going Gruul. Gruul fixing lands are less expensive than most color pairs. I myself want to build Xenagos dragon stompy. Vrondiss, Rage of Ancients himself actually synergies with a number of dragons that have burn damage related abilities such as Akoum Hellkite, Harbinger of the Hunt, and Forgestoker Dragon so upgrading that precon would be financially simple as well (Well, aside from the top end dragons like Gnawbone and Terror of the Peaks).

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Gashnaw
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Post by Gashnaw » 2 years ago

Outcryqq wrote:
2 years ago
How competitive is your deck? If you're just wanting a mid power deck, I'd cut some tutors to make way for more synergistic cards: Vampiric Tutor , Sarkhan's Triumph, Demonic Tutor, and Tooth and Nail would give way to the four you listed.

If you're stuck on your tutors, I'd cut Crucible of Fire (are your losses because your dragons aren't big enough?), Urza's Incubator (cost reduction alone doesn't seem worth a lot - all your other cost reducers do something in addition to that), Rite of Replication (your strongest dragons are generally legendary, which doesn't play particularly well with copying, unless you use one of the many new clone versions that don't care about legendary...), and Clever Impersonator (same reason).
•tutors are staying.
•I thought I had triumph in there.
•Incubator is a 2 cost reduction for a 3 mana artifact. Which pairs with Ur-dragon for a -3.
•I have both and won because of crucible, but not always the defining factor, Ill cut it
•Rite is a good idea, 9 mana to get 5 valkas is not worth it in the end.•
•Impersonator stays, he does not just copy creatures but artifacts/Enchantments too,

I am also cutting Steel helkite, while i will now have ways to get him online. Until now he was a dead draw. 5/5 with nothing special except flying. almost never use his firebreath, and he seems to never break through to use his X ability (And I play with a guy who runs Linvala, so he ends up going offline anyway.) (this would also affect Beledros.)

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Gashnaw
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Post by Gashnaw » 2 years ago

Igzex wrote:
2 years ago
As for making more than one dragon deck to play with more varieties of dragons during a game day, if you don't want to spend a ton of money on another 5 color manabase I'd advise maybe going Gruul. Gruul fixing lands are less expensive than most color pairs. I myself want to build Xenagos dragon stompy. Vrondiss, Rage of Ancients himself actually synergies with a number of dragons that have burn damage related abilities such as Akoum Hellkite, Harbinger of the Hunt, and Forgestoker Dragon so upgrading that precon would be financially simple as well (Well, aside from the top end dragons like Gnawbone and Terror of the Peaks).
Well with five 5-color we have, only one doe snot interest me, and Taimat is gonna be in ur dragon. Ramos is a good 5-color commander. and scion interest me now (I can make 5 color mana bases. i have counterfeit fetch and Duals. Nice looking proxies. I don't claim them to be real, but having 5 mana bases consisting of dual fetches and shocks. i don't have money to but playsets of the dual lands And printing on paper is bothersome.

So i want to build scion combo-hell Along with Krauth, but klauth is also going in Ur-dragons 99. And i am also building mono red Inferno of the star mounts. (I find it plays different enough to warrant its own deck.

I might even look into the Strathaven dragons a bit more for dedicated decks with different playstyles.

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Dunharrow
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Post by Dunharrow » 2 years ago

I have a similar deck and it is seriously the hardest thing to do. I haven't opened any new products since the start of pandemic, but once I start drafting my boxes I am going to have to figure something out.
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Gashnaw
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Post by Gashnaw » 2 years ago

Dunharrow wrote:
2 years ago
I have a similar deck and it is seriously the hardest thing to do. I haven't opened any new products since the start of pandemic, but once I start drafting my boxes I am going to have to figure something out.
I have a deck that was gonna be fun but gonna be taken apart. Luckily i did not buy any new cards for it, just what i already had. I will also taken apart my Ninja deck. I think there are enough dragons to make a few different and interesting decks with a dragon commander.

Yeah i wanna stick witha dragon theme in all of them. I liek dragons and only reason i did not start witha d ragon deck in EDH is due to not having the money. (And ur dragon did not exist yet.)

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Easy peasy -

cut Sakashima and Spark double, they aren't dragons :P

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Sinis
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Post by Sinis » 2 years ago

At some point, I think you just have to kill your darlings. There are plenty of cards I really like, but are totally outclassed by today's standards. Like, I haven't played Wrath of God in a very long time, but I have nostalgic feelings for it.

Sometimes, a card is no longer good enough to run.

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Igzex
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Post by Igzex » 2 years ago

Dunharrow wrote:
2 years ago
I have a similar deck and it is seriously the hardest thing to do. I haven't opened any new products since the start of pandemic, but once I start drafting my boxes I am going to have to figure something out.
It also doesn't help how they threw out these really cool dragons in such rapid succession. Like, usually there's only one interesting dragon a year if even that but this year we got a barrage of fun and effective dragons. We thought it couldn't get better than Terror of the Peaks but then...

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Gashnaw
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Post by Gashnaw » 2 years ago

Igzex wrote:
2 years ago
Terror of the Peaks
1) Why is this not in my deck. Frist ability would be nice if it was for all my dragon not just terror. Second ability, My Commander is a 10/10 (Smallest creature is a 2/2 but most are 4+ Average 5/5)
2) What is BETTER?

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

Imo there's too much generic goodstuff. Like, why is The Immortal Sun in there, exactly? Your cards are expensive and have high p/t so the only part that's terribly interesting is the drawing a card, and 6 is way too much to pay for that - you've got plenty of other draw engines that do way more work for way less cost.

Darksteel ingot is just bad by today's standards, ramp has moved way past it.

I also think huge expensive bombs like Tooth and Nail are destined to sit in your hand for most of the game. You've already got a bunch of dragons so your curve is always going to be bad, and a lot of your cost reduction stuff doesn't affect sorceries. You can afford to run a couple big non-creature bombs but imo you've got too many, especially since you've got tutors. I'd cut it down to like, 1-2 at most.

I don't think panharmonicon is doing nearly enough work to justify itself.

I'm not sold on something like Gilded Lotus. 5 is about when you can actually cast your dragons. Taking a turn off to play more ramp feels slow. I'd want ramp on 2, 3, 4 at the most. 5 is right out imo.

Helm of the host doesn't feel particularly great here. It's a big investment, and its going onto a creature that already cost you a lot. Removal is going to lose you the game. On top of that, I don't think there are enough slam-dunk targets to justify it, and your commander costs a fortune and is going to win you the game quickly if it doesn't die anyway. This just doesn't seem like a good fit for it.

I don't really have strong feelings on the dragons. There's probably some stuff that could be cut but it's kinda down to how much of "the dragon deck" you want it to be. Besides, I wouldn't begrudge someone a nostalgia pick for a cool dragon.
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Gashnaw
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Post by Gashnaw » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
Imo there's too much generic goodstuff. Like, why is The Immortal Sun in there, exactly? Your cards are expensive and have high p/t so the only part that's terribly interesting is the drawing a card, and 6 is way too much to pay for that - you've got plenty of other draw engines that do way more work for way less cost.

Darksteel ingot is just bad by today's standards, ramp has moved way past it.

I also think huge expensive bombs like Tooth and Nail are destined to sit in your hand for most of the game. You've already got a bunch of dragons so your curve is always going to be bad, and a lot of your cost reduction stuff doesn't affect sorceries. You can afford to run a couple big non-creature bombs but imo you've got too many, especially since you've got tutors. I'd cut it down to like, 1-2 at most.

I don't think panharmonicon is doing nearly enough work to justify itself.

I'm not sold on something like Gilded Lotus. 5 is about when you can actually cast your dragons. Taking a turn off to play more ramp feels slow. I'd want ramp on 2, 3, 4 at the most. 5 is right out imo.

Helm of the host doesn't feel particularly great here. It's a big investment, and its going onto a creature that already cost you a lot. Removal is going to lose you the game. On top of that, I don't think there are enough slam-dunk targets to justify it, and your commander costs a fortune and is going to win you the game quickly if it doesn't die anyway. This just doesn't seem like a good fit for it.

I don't really have strong feelings on the dragons. There's probably some stuff that could be cut but it's kinda down to how much of "the dragon deck" you want it to be. Besides, I wouldn't begrudge someone a nostalgia pick for a cool dragon.
Darksteel ingot *checks*
Oh wow this deck list is not up to date. Ingot has not been in for a while now. I dont even remember playing it on the deck to be honest i must have cut it a while ago.

Once i get a hold of tiamat, klauth and gnawbone i will update my list.

Panharmonicon has been in play for scourge of valkas which has been my MVP for a long while. It also triggers ona few other. Ut it is on my cut list.

Helm might get cut. I see.tour justification and i do agree. It has done some. Ice things (and when you have a. Unch of ur dragons it is fun. But i have actually decked myself once. (Plus room for more.dragons will be nice)

Immortal sum was to shut down a superfriends deck. Plus give reduction and draw power. It can be replaced too i guess. Move it further down the line of cuts though.

Lotus stays. All ramp is good ramp and i would.rather have the mana to play two dragons than only enough to play one.

Im sticking with t&n it has actually been the deciding factor in enough games to warrant keeping.

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