Building a "Sunforger package"
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I won a Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest deck. Its fairly typical with not much spice. Ive been thinking about adding a Sunforger. I think maintaining th same shell wouldnt be awesome. Do I add counterspells that wouldnt be great in other situations? Render Silent absorb and so on.
I think my question is for advice on good sunforger targets
I think my question is for advice on good sunforger targets
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TheAmericanSpirit Supreme Dumb Guy
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@DirkGently
I believe this your wheelhouse, no?
I believe this your wheelhouse, no?
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(Except when DirkGently makes them!)
I think I'd be reaching for Counterflux and Dovin's Veto before those two. Not saying your two choices are necessarily bad though.
EDH Decklists
Braids | Kiku | Yawgmoth | Chandra | Jin-Gitaxias | Sakashima the Impostor I Rilsa Rael | Eloise | Killian | Liesa | Nalia de'Arnise | Zara | Kotori | Hanna | Nahiri | Risona | Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Abomination of Llanowar | Pharika | Mina & Denn | Halana & Sakashima | Chromium, The Mutable | Shu Yun
Braids | Kiku | Yawgmoth | Chandra | Jin-Gitaxias | Sakashima the Impostor I Rilsa Rael | Eloise | Killian | Liesa | Nalia de'Arnise | Zara | Kotori | Hanna | Nahiri | Risona | Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Abomination of Llanowar | Pharika | Mina & Denn | Halana & Sakashima | Chromium, The Mutable | Shu Yun
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DirkGently My wins are unconditional
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How much you want to build into a sunforger package probably depends on how many tutors you plan to have for it. It'd be kinda dumb to have a bunch of cards dedicated to making sunforger good if your only way to get it is to luck into drawing it naturally.
As far as card choice, I'd focus on having a diversity of effects rather than redundancy - something to protect your board from removal, something to remove enemy permanents, a counterspell since you're in blue, and something for value generation would be my top picks - a fog might be good too. Tithe is a good option to find Mistveil Plains so you can recur spells as well, or you can just rely on fetchlands hitting it.
As far as card choice, I'd focus on having a diversity of effects rather than redundancy - something to protect your board from removal, something to remove enemy permanents, a counterspell since you're in blue, and something for value generation would be my top picks - a fog might be good too. Tithe is a good option to find Mistveil Plains so you can recur spells as well, or you can just rely on fetchlands hitting it.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
My Shu Run deck is outdated but still got some ideas in it.
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the ... on-control
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the ... on-control
If you want the counterpoint vs. want to discuss how to construct the package:
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest is deceptively mana demanding and I don't think it can support Sunforger very well and certainly cannot support getting blown out once.
Putting pants of any kind on Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest feels like inviting removal on it, which you can ill afford.
The sequence where you go to equip sunforger on Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest and someone removes it is basically going to knock you out of the game near unto 100% of the time.
Further, Sunforger unequipping is extreme counter synergy with a commander who would really really like +4/+0 otherwise (so you're goin to find a tension quite often where you would rather just deal +8 damage by casting some other spell and giving him doublestrike vs. activating forger).
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest is deceptively mana demanding and I don't think it can support Sunforger very well and certainly cannot support getting blown out once.
Putting pants of any kind on Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest feels like inviting removal on it, which you can ill afford.
The sequence where you go to equip sunforger on Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest and someone removes it is basically going to knock you out of the game near unto 100% of the time.
Further, Sunforger unequipping is extreme counter synergy with a commander who would really really like +4/+0 otherwise (so you're goin to find a tension quite often where you would rather just deal +8 damage by casting some other spell and giving him doublestrike vs. activating forger).
If you're going the Sunforger route I definitely recommend Brass Squire and if you have the metalcraft support Puresteel Paladin . The squire lets you instant speed equip Sunforger to use it again, and you can always equip to the brass squire if Shu Yun is being crapped on.
Of course this leads to a slippery slope of how much equipment synergy do you want then and do you include more equipment. IMO Brass Squire isn't ever a dead card, especially in a voltron deck, because it can deal with an edict effect that would otherwise hit your commander and it's a blocker.
Of course this leads to a slippery slope of how much equipment synergy do you want then and do you include more equipment. IMO Brass Squire isn't ever a dead card, especially in a voltron deck, because it can deal with an edict effect that would otherwise hit your commander and it's a blocker.
- LightningHelix
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I might be an outlier here, but as someone who has played Sunforger for awhile, I generally think it's not worth it. If your goal is fun, then yes it's pretty fun, so power to you if that's your plan.duducrash wrote: ↑2 years agoI won a Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest deck. Its fairly typical with not much spice. Ive been thinking about adding a Sunforger. I think maintaining th same shell wouldnt be awesome. Do I add counterspells that wouldnt be great in other situations? Render Silent absorb and so on.
I think my question is for advice on good sunforger targets
But 3 to cast, 3 to equip and another 2 mana to activate, making 8 mana total investment, and a subsequent 5 mana thereafter. I'm not paying 8 mana for a Swords to Plowshares. Plus you have to slot a certain amount of cards that work with it, those cards that you may draw and may be too conditional and may not synergize with the deck as drawn. Plus the expensive equip can take up your turn and easily be disrupted.
If you have a lot of ways to cheat equip costs it might be worth it, but I'm never paying full price.
I have a sunforger package in my shu yun deck.
Lots you can put in there.
I have 20 hits, and I haven't added Dovin's Veto yet (I would cut a blue counterspell).
Bear in mind many of these are just good spells that you should run regardless
I have:
Steam Augury
Swords to Plowshares
Teferi's Protection
Izzet Charm
Honor the Fallen
Hindering Light
Shelter
Counterflux
Ojutai's Command
Enlightened Tutor
Return to Dust
Boros Charm
Unexpectedly Absent
Generous Gift
Path to Exile
Debt of Loyalty
Apostle's Blessing
Comeuppance
Emerge Unscathed
Settle the Wreckage
Lots you can put in there.
I have 20 hits, and I haven't added Dovin's Veto yet (I would cut a blue counterspell).
Bear in mind many of these are just good spells that you should run regardless
I have:
Steam Augury
Swords to Plowshares
Teferi's Protection
Izzet Charm
Honor the Fallen
Hindering Light
Shelter
Counterflux
Ojutai's Command
Enlightened Tutor
Return to Dust
Boros Charm
Unexpectedly Absent
Generous Gift
Path to Exile
Debt of Loyalty
Apostle's Blessing
Comeuppance
Emerge Unscathed
Settle the Wreckage
The New World fell not to a sword but to a meme
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I've 2 decks with a sunforger package : Kaalia and my pillowfort (currently helmed with Kykar, Wind's Fury). Here are the targets for each one :
Kaalia's package, with mainly means to protect my board or myself :
Enlightened Tutor
Boros Charm
Rakdos Charm
Dawn Charm
Eerie Interlude
Riot Control
Wild Ricochet
Comeuppance
Pillowfort's multipurpose package :
Boros Charm
Dawn Charm
Render Silent
Generous Gift
Return to Dust
Wild Ricochet
Comeuppance
Faith's Reward
I don't update these package for quite a long time. Settle the Wreckage would go in both soon for example
Kaalia's package, with mainly means to protect my board or myself :
Enlightened Tutor
Boros Charm
Rakdos Charm
Dawn Charm
Eerie Interlude
Riot Control
Wild Ricochet
Comeuppance
Pillowfort's multipurpose package :
Boros Charm
Dawn Charm
Render Silent
Generous Gift
Return to Dust
Wild Ricochet
Comeuppance
Faith's Reward
I don't update these package for quite a long time. Settle the Wreckage would go in both soon for example
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Some fun cards that may not be completely optimal:
intimidation bolt
fight to the death
master warcraft
ride down
intimidation bolt
fight to the death
master warcraft
ride down