White Artifact/Enchantment Removal Discussion

[LightningHelix]

So as my other threads on white sweepers and creature spot removal, I'd like to discuss Artifact/Enchantment specific removal.

Here' some Artifact/Enchantment removal I tend to like, let me know if any of them are actually traps or if there is anything else that's good that I'm missing.

Abolish - Can be free in a pinch, you should have access to a lot of plains however, so mono-white, heavy white or several effects similar to Land Tax
Act of Authority - Mostly for blink decks, this can be about as powerful as Aura Shards in the right deck.
Angel of the Ruins - Mostly for cycling decks, 7 mana, but much more effective than something like Eternal Dragon
Aura of Silence - Probably the strongest option, being on a permanent, means it easy to recur and does a great job hosing fast mana and certain strategies.
Crush Contraband - Hull Breach but instant and exiles, imo outclasses Return to Dust as it actually works well as an instant.
Dismantling Wave - Great in Cycling decks and good enough to see play outside that archetype, easy 3 for 1.
Dispeller's Capsule - Mostly for artifact decks as Trinket Mage tutors for it and its easy to recur and its a cheap artifact to set up synergies.
Stony Silence - If your not running any mana rocks other than Sol Ring I think this could warrant inclusion, shuts things down hard, but meta dependant.
Forsake the Worldly - Great in Cycling, decent elsewhere, as you can ditch it if its a dead card and exiling sometimes matters.
Seal of Cleansing - much like aura of silence, but cheaper and weaker, still worth it if you need removal on a permanent that sacs itself.
Heliod's Intervention - Pretty Much Replace Crush Contraband and doubles as mass lifegain for decks that care about that kind of thing

Some other cards mentionned in other threads that also fit into this category:Generous Gift Oblation Unexpectedly Absent Skyclave Apparition Akroma's Vengeance Austere Command Cleansing Nova

[pokken]

I've played a ton of leonin relic warder and skyclave apparition works too.

It blows my mind that white doesn't have a reclamation sage

[LightningHelix]

I've played a ton of leonin relic warder and skyclave apparition works too.

It blows my mind that white doesn't have a reclamation sage

I like Leonin Relic-Warder since it also doubles as a combo piece. Forgot to add Skyclave Apparition, since we've pretty much established its a good card

Ditto on white should have a Reclamation Sage variant, how does that meme go again? Green gets what white has, only better?

[pokken]

Sorry it's annoying to do card tags on mobile:P.

I keep hoping for the day that autotagging works

[NZB2323]

War Priest of Thune is solid for a human tribal, cleric tribal, or aristocrat deck. He's solid with Winota, Joiner of Forces or if you have Ravos, Soultender and a sacrifice outlet you can play him every turn. Leonin Relic-Warder is even better for that situation. There are actually so many clerics that double as enchantment removal:

• Solitari visionary
• Reliquary monk
• Nova cleric
• Monk realist
• Kor sanctifiers
• Devout chaplain
• Absolved thrull
• Daru sanctifier
• Dawning purist

I honestly think that Generous Gift, Oblation, Cleansing Nova, and Austere Command are the 4 best ones.

There's some other ones like Return to Dust and Dismantling Wave, but those cards may not be as good as they seem.

[LightningHelix]

War Priest of Thune is solid for a human tribal, cleric tribal, or aristocrat deck. He's solid with Winota, Joiner of Forces or if you have Ravos, Soultender and a sacrifice outlet you can play him every turn. Leonin Relic-Warder is even better for that satiation. There are actually so many clerics that double as enchantment removal:

• Solitari visionary
• Reliquary monk
• Nova cleric
• Monk realist
• Kor sanctifiers
• Devout chaplain
• Absolved thrull
• Daru sanctifier
• Dawning purist

I honestly think that Generous Gift, Oblation, Cleansing Nova, and Austere Command are the 4 best ones.

There's some other ones like Return to Dust and Dismantling Wave, but those cards may not be as good as they seem.

I tend to like things that can bust both artifacts and enchantments.

Agreed on Generous Gift , etc those are probably the best ones.

I think Return to Dust has been straight up outclassed and never was really that good to start with. Dismantling Wave is a bit more niche, but it definetly good in Gavi, Nest Warden where its a free, uncounterable blow up all artifacts and enchantments, draw a card.

[Hawk]

Generous Gift is my favorite of these, naturally. I'd run 10 copies of it over almost all other removal (actually in truth, I'd do a 5-5 split on Gifts and Swords to Plowshares as my removal base if allowed).

From there, I think my most-played "enchantment removal" effects are Forsake the Worldly (I like cycling, exiling, and instant speed), Aura of Silence (adds to devotion and taxes until I need to nuke), and Oblation (I put a ton of value on hitting all permanents and being instant). In mono-white or a vacuum after that it depends. If the deck is instant-speed heavy I'm not above Disenchant; unlike green white's original and classic version of the effect has yet to be strictly-better-than'd, and sometimes you just wanna nuke something at instant speed for two mana. I tend to like Oblivion Ring more than the average person, so that gets played a lot (but now that Act of Authority is a modest 2.50 instead of the $10 I seem to remember it at for first printing maybe I'll upgrade). Artifact-centric decks will get Dispeller's Capsule.

I want to like Abolish (I even have a foil copy from Prophecy!) but it keeps making the maybeboard and getting cut. My meta just isn't cEDH enough to justify it over Forsake the Worldly and Disenchant.

I'm in the minority as really disliking and almost never playing Return to Dust and Crush Contraband. I know they're "card advantage" but at least in my meta you are often hitting one permanent you really really really need to kill and one permanent that's just some dumb rock as collateral damage, and that's not worth 4 mana to me. If there's only one card I desperately need to nuke to not die, might as well just play Disenchant or Forsake and one-for-one it. I do prefer Crush to Return though.

At this point, every color introduces some other "enchantment/artifact" answers and embarrassingly Black and Green bring stuff I just like way more (Feed the Swarm and Mortify and Anguished Unmaking and Vindicate for BW; Return to Nature and Reclamation Sage and Acidic Slime and Best Within and Aura Shards and Song of the Dryads in green), so even those of these I like tend to get choked out reasonably often.

[LightningHelix]

Generous Gift is my favorite of these, naturally. I'd run 10 copies of it over almost all other removal (actually in truth, I'd do a 5-5 split on Gifts and Swords to Plowshares as my removal base if allowed).

From there, I think my most-played "enchantment removal" effects are Forsake the Worldly (I like cycling, exiling, and instant speed), Aura of Silence (adds to devotion and taxes until I need to nuke), and Oblation (I put a ton of value on hitting all permanents and being instant). In mono-white or a vacuum after that it depends. If the deck is instant-speed heavy I'm not above Disenchant; unlike green white's original and classic version of the effect has yet to be strictly-better-than'd, and sometimes you just wanna nuke something at instant speed for two mana. I tend to like Oblivion Ring more than the average person, so that gets played a lot (but now that Act of Authority is a modest 2.50 instead of the $10 I seem to remember it at for first printing maybe I'll upgrade). Artifact-centric decks will get Dispeller's Capsule.

I want to like Abolish (I even have a foil copy from Prophecy!) but it keeps making the maybeboard and getting cut. My meta just isn't cEDH enough to justify it over Forsake the Worldly and Disenchant.

I'm in the minority as really disliking and almost never playing Return to Dust and Crush Contraband. I know they're "card advantage" but at least in my meta you are often hitting one permanent you really really really need to kill and one permanent that's just some dumb rock as collateral damage, and that's not worth 4 mana to me. If there's only one card I desperately need to nuke to not die, might as well just play Disenchant or Forsake and one-for-one it. I do prefer Crush to Return though.

At this point, every color introduces some other "enchantment/artifact" answers and embarrassingly Black and Green bring stuff I just like way more (Feed the Swarm and Mortify and Anguished Unmaking and Vindicate for BW; Return to Nature and Reclamation Sage and Acidic Slime and Best Within and Aura Shards and Song of the Dryads in green), so even those of these I like tend to get choked out reasonably often.

I kind of agree about Crush Contraband personally, it's a card that people seem to play and I mentionned it basically because people still play Return to Dust , but honestly its still probably not worth it, especially considering Heliod's Intervention exists (Which I forgot to add to the list.). But its mediocre for the exact reasons you mentionned. Something inconsequential gets hit in the process. Kind of the reason I don't run Casualties of War, because I destroy one thing I care about and then a bunch of inconsequential things and get a boat load of spite thrown my way.

[Krishnath]

Personally, I am rather fond of Allay as enchantment removal. Sure, it doesn't exile, which can sometimes be a problem, but I think it makes up for it by being repeatable.

[NZB2323]

Generous Gift is my favorite of these, naturally. I'd run 10 copies of it over almost all other removal (actually in truth, I'd do a 5-5 split on Gifts and Swords to Plowshares as my removal base if allowed).

From there, I think my most-played "enchantment removal" effects are Forsake the Worldly (I like cycling, exiling, and instant speed), Aura of Silence (adds to devotion and taxes until I need to nuke), and Oblation (I put a ton of value on hitting all permanents and being instant). In mono-white or a vacuum after that it depends. If the deck is instant-speed heavy I'm not above Disenchant; unlike green white's original and classic version of the effect has yet to be strictly-better-than'd, and sometimes you just wanna nuke something at instant speed for two mana. I tend to like Oblivion Ring more than the average person, so that gets played a lot (but now that Act of Authority is a modest 2.50 instead of the $10 I seem to remember it at for first printing maybe I'll upgrade). Artifact-centric decks will get Dispeller's Capsule.

I want to like Abolish (I even have a foil copy from Prophecy!) but it keeps making the maybeboard and getting cut. My meta just isn't cEDH enough to justify it over Forsake the Worldly and Disenchant.

I'm in the minority as really disliking and almost never playing Return to Dust and Crush Contraband. I know they're "card advantage" but at least in my meta you are often hitting one permanent you really really really need to kill and one permanent that's just some dumb rock as collateral damage, and that's not worth 4 mana to me. If there's only one card I desperately need to nuke to not die, might as well just play Disenchant or Forsake and one-for-one it. I do prefer Crush to Return though.

At this point, every color introduces some other "enchantment/artifact" answers and embarrassingly Black and Green bring stuff I just like way more (Feed the Swarm and Mortify and Anguished Unmaking and Vindicate for BW; Return to Nature and Reclamation Sage and Acidic Slime and Best Within and Aura Shards and Song of the Dryads in green), so even those of these I like tend to get choked out reasonably often.

Why would you play Oblivion Ring over Grasp of Fate?

I guess Council's Judgment also can be artifact/enchantment removal and can be used to break a lock of Greater Auramancy and a copy of Greater Auramancy or Sterling Grove.

[LightningHelix]

Generous Gift is my favorite of these, naturally. I'd run 10 copies of it over almost all other removal (actually in truth, I'd do a 5-5 split on Gifts and Swords to Plowshares as my removal base if allowed).

From there, I think my most-played "enchantment removal" effects are Forsake the Worldly (I like cycling, exiling, and instant speed), Aura of Silence (adds to devotion and taxes until I need to nuke), and Oblation (I put a ton of value on hitting all permanents and being instant). In mono-white or a vacuum after that it depends. If the deck is instant-speed heavy I'm not above Disenchant; unlike green white's original and classic version of the effect has yet to be strictly-better-than'd, and sometimes you just wanna nuke something at instant speed for two mana. I tend to like Oblivion Ring more than the average person, so that gets played a lot (but now that Act of Authority is a modest 2.50 instead of the $10 I seem to remember it at for first printing maybe I'll upgrade). Artifact-centric decks will get Dispeller's Capsule.

I want to like Abolish (I even have a foil copy from Prophecy!) but it keeps making the maybeboard and getting cut. My meta just isn't cEDH enough to justify it over Forsake the Worldly and Disenchant.

I'm in the minority as really disliking and almost never playing Return to Dust and Crush Contraband. I know they're "card advantage" but at least in my meta you are often hitting one permanent you really really really need to kill and one permanent that's just some dumb rock as collateral damage, and that's not worth 4 mana to me. If there's only one card I desperately need to nuke to not die, might as well just play Disenchant or Forsake and one-for-one it. I do prefer Crush to Return though.

At this point, every color introduces some other "enchantment/artifact" answers and embarrassingly Black and Green bring stuff I just like way more (Feed the Swarm and Mortify and Anguished Unmaking and Vindicate for BW; Return to Nature and Reclamation Sage and Acidic Slime and Best Within and Aura Shards and Song of the Dryads in green), so even those of these I like tend to get choked out reasonably often.

Why would you play Oblivion Ring over Grasp of Fate?

I guess Council's Judgment also can be artifact/enchantment removal and can be used to break a lock of Greater Auramancy and a copy of Greater Auramancy or Sterling Grove.

The way Oblivion Ring stacks its triggers separately means you can blink/bounce/sacrifice it in response to the exile part of the ring. This means you can permanently remove things with it. This can be especially good in decks such as Ghen, Arcanum Weaver that can do the trick and even recur the ring. Depending how consistently you can do these types of tricks can put Oblivion ring way over the top. I usually don't play either grasp or oblivion ring, but I would consider ring in deck that can abuse it.

[pokken]

I used to get great joy out of setting up the Sun Titan / Oblivion Ring / Thaumatog shotgun combo where you just kill something every turn

[Henlock]

I also quite dislike 4 mana disenchants. I've been meaning to try True Love's Kiss, tho. Replacing itself feels more valuable than blowing up a random rock.

[Hawk]

Generous Gift is my favorite of these, naturally. I'd run 10 copies of it over almost all other removal (actually in truth, I'd do a 5-5 split on Gifts and Swords to Plowshares as my removal base if allowed).

From there, I think my most-played "enchantment removal" effects are Forsake the Worldly (I like cycling, exiling, and instant speed), Aura of Silence (adds to devotion and taxes until I need to nuke), and Oblation (I put a ton of value on hitting all permanents and being instant). In mono-white or a vacuum after that it depends. If the deck is instant-speed heavy I'm not above Disenchant; unlike green white's original and classic version of the effect has yet to be strictly-better-than'd, and sometimes you just wanna nuke something at instant speed for two mana. I tend to like Oblivion Ring more than the average person, so that gets played a lot (but now that Act of Authority is a modest 2.50 instead of the $10 I seem to remember it at for first printing maybe I'll upgrade). Artifact-centric decks will get Dispeller's Capsule.

I want to like Abolish (I even have a foil copy from Prophecy!) but it keeps making the maybeboard and getting cut. My meta just isn't cEDH enough to justify it over Forsake the Worldly and Disenchant.

I'm in the minority as really disliking and almost never playing Return to Dust and Crush Contraband. I know they're "card advantage" but at least in my meta you are often hitting one permanent you really really really need to kill and one permanent that's just some dumb rock as collateral damage, and that's not worth 4 mana to me. If there's only one card I desperately need to nuke to not die, might as well just play Disenchant or Forsake and one-for-one it. I do prefer Crush to Return though.

At this point, every color introduces some other "enchantment/artifact" answers and embarrassingly Black and Green bring stuff I just like way more (Feed the Swarm and Mortify and Anguished Unmaking and Vindicate for BW; Return to Nature and Reclamation Sage and Acidic Slime and Best Within and Aura Shards and Song of the Dryads in green), so even those of these I like tend to get choked out reasonably often.

Why would you play Oblivion Ring over Grasp of Fate?

I guess Council's Judgment also can be artifact/enchantment removal and can be used to break a lock of Greater Auramancy and a copy of Greater Auramancy or Sterling Grove.

1) As LightningHelix and pokken already pointed out, Oblivion Ring's wording lets you engage in some corner-case trickery with sac outlets or flickers to permanently remove cards. I don't think any of my decks where O-ring is in the 99 actually reliably do so, but you can and they intentionally started wording later effects like Grasp of Fate and Detention Sphere (which you'd think are strictly better) and Banishing Light (which seems the same) to avoid that interaction. In my mind, that means O-ring is the right call if your deck includes any amount of sac or flicker tricks.

2) Budget. I'm a budgetish player who has played off and on since Saga but mostly buys boosters and attends prereleases and has only in the last few years started focusing on singles over packs. That means my collection currently includes approximately 30 Oblivion Rings and zero copies of Grasp of Fate or Council's Judgment. While I know that Grasp and Judgment are better I'm not convinced they are that much better for that price point (Grasp is still $6 and more at my LGS if they even have it in stock) when my collection also doesn't have enough Arcane Signets and Swords to Plowshares and Generous Gifts to go around, and is straight up missing a lot of other great staple cards (a few of the Fetches, for instance, or the new Battle/Commander Legends lands, or Teferi's Protection). Given my limited budget, that means when I'm building or upgrading Grasp and Judgement tend to be at the bottom of the list.

3) WW is basically trivial even for me (I'm poor but almost every deck still at least gets a Shock, Check, and Command Tower and most also get fetches and pains and a few other EtB untapped duals), but not for everyone so if your deck was really, really sparse on W but didn't have access to better alternatives (which could be for a spell-slingery Jeskai deck on a budget) O-ring might just be easier to cast.

4) Nostalgia. I have fond memories of Lorwyn casual and limited, and love that O-ring was a mere common then. While I prefer the newer art it still brings back those happy memories - and again, while it is "worse" I think the added joy % equalizes out the 10% increase in efficiency and power I'd get from Grasp or Judgement.

[pokken]

I will note that I have seen one play pattern with Grasp of Fate creep up on the regular which is that people will blow it up to get their thing back and not care what things other people get back.

That's not enough to keep me from playing it over Oblivion Ring most of the time but it is something I think about, and I'll sometimes leave a particular player I know has blinders on out of the targeting with Grasp just to keep them from screwing us

[RxPhantom]

White does a have a Reclamation Sage you guys. It just costs two extra, you know, practically nothing. Plus, such a good boy!

EDIT: opponent controls?! It's already five mana! They couldn't let us do shenanigans with it?!

Anyway, I've been liking Forsake the Worldly these days, too. I was all about Altar's Light back in the day, then then Fate Forgotten for a hot minute before Forsake came out. I realized the other day that I still run Disenchant in a deck, but I dig that old Mirage art so I haven't cut it yet.

[LightningHelix]

White does a have a Reclamation Sage you guys. It just costs two extra, you know, practically nothing. Plus, such a good boy!

EDIT: opponent controls?! It's already five mana! They couldn't let us do shenanigans with it?!

Anyway, I've been liking Forsake the Worldly the worldly these days, too. I was all about Altar's Light back in the day, then then Fate Forgotten for a hot minute before Forsake came out. I realized the other day that I still run Disenchant in a deck, but I dig that old Mirage art so I haven't cut it yet.

You might enjoy True Love's Kiss