I'm in a rut and I haven't seen a new commander that really speaks to me in ages.

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3drinks
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Post by 3drinks » 1 week ago

Kaalia - high intensity
Alesha - monarch stax leaning slivers
Korvold - stax
Trynn/Silvar - rebels leaning stax
Kari Zev - big red leaning stax
Goreclaw - stompy
Samut - 10min turns with lots of open opportunities to build responses
Kraj - 20min wombo combo turns
I hate group hug and chaos, and these archetypes should die in a fiery hell.

So I think I'm figuring out why I've been apathetic towards building and maybe a bit moody towards the state of the format. I love stax I guess and every time I pick up a deck, I look for ways to lock a game down. I must be real fun at parties I know.

So what can I do, what can I look into, for decks to do something different and reinvigorate my desire to build, but not go off into stax like everything else?
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Post by Venedrex » 1 week ago

Well, after looking at your list, I noticed that you appear to have a lot of decks in Naya colors, so I started thinking of Dimir commanders. Then I thought of Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow.
I don't know if you'd be interested in her as a commander, but she has a (in my opinion) fun and fast paced aggressive tempo control evasive creature style that is a blast to play.

Of course a lot of people go with extra turn spells for the raw power, but if that would be too oppressive I believe even just some less potent big mana value spells, or going all in on ninjas could still be a fun deck to play.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 week ago

3drinks wrote:
1 week ago
Kaalia - high intensity
Alesha - monarch stax leaning slivers
Korvold - stax
Trynn/Silvar - rebels leaning stax
Kari Zev - big red leaning stax
Goreclaw - stompy
Samut - 10min turns with lots of open opportunities to build responses
Kraj - 20min wombo combo turns
I hate group hug and chaos, and these archetypes should die in a fiery hell.

So I think I'm figuring out why I've been apathetic towards building and maybe a bit moody towards the state of the format. I love stax I guess and every time I pick up a deck, I look for ways to lock a game down. I must be real fun at parties I know.

So what can I do, what can I look into, for decks to do something different and reinvigorate my desire go build, but not go off into stax like everything else?
This happens to me on a fairly cyclical basis. What I try to do when I'm feeling really uninspired is to review all the ideas, past, present and future, that I had even a minute interest in building, and select the then coolest one and check it off my edh bucket list. If nothing still speaks to me, I pick an underrepresented legend from the newest set and try to make that work.

Ultimately though, you're just a staxy guy. You're allowed to lean into that. I'd build two decks to scratch that itch, a la the Pepsi model; one deck as "diet stax" with softer stax/tax/locks and "Stax Max", without any pulled punches. That way, regardless of table strength, you always have an appropriately powered stax deck for the occasion and you can do your thing without people feeling as pubstomped or bitter. It's a really fine line, but I think you can walk it if you try.

I think you're better off accepting what you enjoy and devoting your energies to making that work in a fun way than fighting your natural inclinations to an unsatifactory conclusion. Don't lose focus of common consideration and facilitating gpod games, but remember your enjoyment is a factor in that too.

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Post by FenrirRex » 1 week ago

I'm not entirely certain how to assist, as the tryhard drive to make everything staxy with a pure focus on efficiency is a rough spot that we know you've struggled with working around. Still, I have two suggestions as far as making deck building more theoretically enjoyable:

The first is just to pick a linear strategy that has nothing to do with stax that you enjoy. Pick an EDHrec theme that you like (a tribe, life gain, flicker effects, whatever appeals to you), a commander to match, then build with just that effect or mechanic in mind- ignore everything else, go full tunnel vision on it, and then see if you can have fun with it. Ideally this forced mindset and theoretical fun that results will help realign things by embracing simplicity.

The second is what worked for me while building my 32 deck gauntlet and starting to flag in inspiration: go big on a non-magic theme. Pick a movie, game, book, or fandom you enjoy and see what cards you can fit into the mold to build a deck around. I have a both a Lord of the Rings and a Voldemort theme deck on these forums and a couple more of those I have not yet posted up, all of which were great fun to build and (while infinitely less competitive) similarly satisfying to play.

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Post by pokken » 1 week ago

The thing that reinvigorated my interest in deckbuilding the last time I flagged was building my mostly mono-colored golos decks. And that kinda bridged to building my favorite of the two mono colors (red and white) as standalone decks (harnfel and mangara).

Of those, my Mangara deck has been super fun. She has political power that helps me slow the game down quite a bit (people look to slow down a little bit to avoid giving me tons of cards, and I have tons of effects that slow it down too).

The reason I bring that up is I think you might enjoy the political combat-staxy type archetype, which doesn't really do hard stax but still slows the game down and lets you try to grab control. I'm giving some thought to converting Mangara to Breena, the Demagogue atm, who has a similar set of abilities (generating cards off people playing the game at an awkward pace).
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Post by 3drinks » 1 week ago

If I go in a different direction, would Numot-Fireshrieker interactions whet my stax appetite while forcing me to approach it in a different direction? Take away the b tutours that supply my efficiency and consistency, and - while not being an overwhelming interaction, it's still a strong one if my dopey six mana dragon can hit (but totally not central to my plans).

This sounds like the diet stax TAS is referring to. But maybe I should look to that Ephara Hatebears deck too.
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Post by Treamayne » 1 week ago

3drinks wrote:
1 week ago
So I think I'm figuring out why I've been apathetic towards building and maybe a bit moody towards the state of the format. I love stax I guess and every time I pick up a deck, I look for ways to lock a game down. I must be real fun at parties I know.

So what can I do, what can I look into, for decks to do something different and reinvigorate my desire to build, but not go off into stax like everything else?
What I would suggest is to start with an honest introspective analysis of why you like Stax. Is it because you like controlling the board? Is it because you only like reaching for the win after you have "defang"ed the opponents? Is it because your inner Johnny likes to find ways around the obstacles most Stax cards create (especially the "all players" pieces like Orb, Portcullis, smokestack, etc.)? Something else, or some combination of factors?

Once you have an idea of why you like Stax, then you can brainstorm (alone or here) about other ways to meet that same/similar impetus.

For example, if you like having board control maybe you could try a wrath heavy man-land build (wiping away blockers, and slowly bleeding the opponents dry - maybe under Estrid, Hazezon, or Chile of Alara).
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Post by 3drinks » 1 week ago

Treamayne wrote:
1 week ago
3drinks wrote:
1 week ago
So I think I'm figuring out why I've been apathetic towards building and maybe a bit moody towards the state of the format. I love stax I guess and every time I pick up a deck, I look for ways to lock a game down. I must be real fun at parties I know.

So what can I do, what can I look into, for decks to do something different and reinvigorate my desire to build, but not go off into stax like everything else?
What I would suggest is to start with an honest introspective analysis of why you like Stax. Is it because you like controlling the board? Is it because you only like reaching for the win after you have "defang"ed the opponents? Is it because your inner Johnny likes to find ways around the obstacles most Stax cards create (especially the "all players" pieces like Orb, Portcullis, smokestack, etc.)? Something else, or some combination of factors?

Once you have an idea of why you like Stax, then you can brainstorm (alone or here) about other ways to meet that same/similar impetus.

For example, if you like having board control maybe you could try a wrath heavy man-land build (wiping away blockers, and slowly bleeding the opponents dry - maybe under Estrid, Hazezon, or Chile of Alara).
That's easy. I like stax because if I don't, then someone else will combo win since the vast majority of players don't play enough (or any 🙄) removal.
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Post by Treamayne » 1 week ago

3drinks wrote:
1 week ago
That's easy. I like stax because if I don't, then someone else will combo win since the vast majority of players don't play enough (or any 🙄) removal.
Are you sure that isn't just a rationalization for yourself? It seems to me that there are more ways to disrupt combo than just Stax. Which implies there are other reasons why Stax is the method you prefer for that task...
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Post by DirkGently » 1 week ago

Yeah I don't get stax as the be-all-end-all answer to combo. You need to have the right piece out to stop the combo in advance, and you'll poop on the other players doing fair things. Plus the combo players will just hold their combos until later, once the important stax pieces have been removed.

Wrecking combo players is part of why I built Phelddagrif, so I can punish the bad and reward the good (by putting them in an unwinnable 1v1 control matchup once everyone else is dead :D). You don't have to go that route, ofc, but targeted removal and counterspells are both potent ways to slaughter combo without hurting anyone else, and disabling them more permanently instead of merely delaying their plans. If Phelddagrif is too huggy-wuggy for your liking, you might consider something like Tasigur, the Golden Fang - "hey, he's casting a combo piece, I'm going to activate Tas...would you like to give me a counterspell?"

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Post by 3drinks » 1 week ago

Should I just shift and join the other degenerate ramp players in 4c Omnath and Golos, sort of a "if you can't beat em, join em"?
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Post by Treamayne » 1 week ago

3drinks wrote:
1 week ago
Should I just shift and join the other degenerate ramp players in 4c Omnath and Golos, sort of a "if you can't beat em, join em"?
If that is what you want and would enjoy; then sure... I guess.

My point was to reflect and really think about what aspect(s) of Stax you are currently enjoying, then see if you can find other lines of play that incorporate those aspects.

That said, you asked for ideas. This is just one avenue I wanted to suggest as a method of finding alternate lines of play you may enjoy.

Of course, YMMV.
V/R

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Post by Gashnaw » 1 week ago

Venedrex wrote:
1 week ago
Well, after looking at your list, I noticed that you appear to have a lot of decks in Naya colors, so I started thinking of Dimir commanders. Then I thought of Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow.
I don't know if you'd be interested in her as a commander, but she has a (in my opinion) fun and fast paced aggressive tempo control evasive creature style that is a blast to play.

Of course a lot of people go with extra turn spells for the raw power, but if that would be too oppressive I believe even just some less potent big mana value spells, or going all in on ninjas could still be a fun deck to play.
Yuriko can be REALLY oppressive. Vampiric tutor to get a big spell on top. (Usually i put Draco on top There is no intent to cast Draco, but it is 16 damage) Big damage spells, Many of which are split cards as you count the cost of BOTH parts. Get a few ninjas through and you can be doing 20+ damage in one shot. I have managed to do 50+ in one shot, around turn 4) (Granted i had a free shot and a bit of ramp, I got through and used Insidious Dreams to go put some cards on top.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 week ago

Pick a recent legend and build around them. This may sound preposterous, but that's what works for me. R&D tends to design legends that may look boring, but actually play quite fun in practice. My first case of that was Kumena, a deck dictated by my availability of good equipment and my fondness of Kindred Discovery. Merfolk tribal - how original! The deck was a blast to pilot despite how boring the premise was. My most prominent deck that wasn't born out of an interest in the legend has been Ghired. Once again, I look at the legend; creatures plus Kiki - how original! Yet I'm pretty sure the deck is my most played list of the past two years. I even bothered to write up a primer about it.

You dabbled in the CMR partner pool, which I personally think is a wonderful gift to the format. You could poke around in there some more too?
 
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Post by 3drinks » 1 week ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
1 week ago
Pick a recent legend and build around them. This may sound preposterous, but that's what works for me. R&D tends to design legends that may look boring, but actually play quite fun in practice. My first case of that was Kumena, a deck dictated by my availability of good equipment and my fondness of Kindred Discovery. Merfolk tribal - how original! The deck was a blast to pilot despite how boring the premise was. My most prominent deck that wasn't born out of an interest in the legend has been Ghired. Once again, I look at the legend; creatures plus Kiki - how original! Yet I'm pretty sure the deck is my most played list of the past two years. I even bothered to write up a primer about it.

You dabbled in the CMR partner pool, which I personally think is a wonderful gift to the format. You could poke around in there some more too?
It's so hard for me to find something I really like. I mean, I've played Kaalia for a decade now. Last thing that really drew me in was Traxos, but similar to Ghen, we both know how quick mono brown draws one into stax. I know I want to do something different, but when everything goes back to the same thing, it's just...like, it keeps you inside the same box with a different flavour. I guess part of that Iis chasing optimization.

I really don't play control that much, at least conventionally speaking. Larryand flip Bolas being cards that excite me (I even had flip Bolas for commander, modern legal, and played it in modern fnm). But these both have black which leads me to these same play patterns. 4c Omnath forces me out of that, but I suspect as pushed as that is, it'll be as groan inducing as Golos.
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 1 week ago

I had a similar rut for most of Covid, and spent close to a year without building or thinking about building. What got me back started with significant building limitations; specifically pauper commander. A member of my playgroup wanted to try it and while we've barely played pauper in the months since, it got me deckbuilding again. Building for a game with limited mass removal/recursion options and card advantage engines helped me, and has carried forward into some subsequent builds.

I find, at least for myself, once I was past the rut I was more interested in some of the newer commanders and strategies they enabled. I don't know if I'd have been as interested in Osgir, the Reconstructor if I hadn't spent a month or so looking at Auriok Salvagers in pauper before he was revealed. I guess my point is that limiting yourself can help look at legends which were uninteresting before in a different way.
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Post by 3drinks » 1 week ago

So I really don't want to play a ramp deck. Omnath is cool but I'm gonna get burned out after four games. I keep eyeing Numot, the Devastator and I think it's the kind of both stax I need to satisfy my playstyle, but not the overarching threat because who cares about a PLC dragon in 2021? Plus, it gets me off the undercosted universal tutours that are so often my lynchpin.
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Post by umtiger » 1 week ago

Sometimes, when I'm looking for a deck to build, I look at a card or set of cards rather than the commander.

For instance, I found a beta Red Ward in junk and asked what's the deck that can best use this crap? I bought the rest of the cycle (Blue/Black/Green Ward) and built a Sram deck. Turns out crap that's 1cmc can be decent when you staple "draw a card" on it.

Numot for destroying lands sounds like a good time. Nowadays, people ramp so out of control that double stone rain probably won't slow anyone down. It'll be more for destroying utility lands.

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Post by EonAon » 1 week ago

Seems like the you dont play blue, now thats a failing I have as well but have you thought about actually going that direction? Numot is not really going to win you friends since repeatable land destruction isnt really fun for anyone except the person destroying the lands. Go Bant or just u/w half control or half aggro somehow? Like the person suggested above maybe go Dimir and be sneaky evil. Stax seems to be what you fall back on but if you keep repeating that over and over it no wonder you get bored. Do R/W little victories with Iroas, God of Victory and small aggressive low CC creatures. Heck do an Gadrak, the Crown-Scourge artifact deck using golems, thopters, servos, or constructs.

If you keep staxing your just going to get board over and over cause your always doing the same playstyle every game all the time. As I said I dont play blue but I did just make a Kangee, sky warden deck for a half control, half flying creature build so I would have something different to play.

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Post by FenrirRex » 1 week ago

3drinks wrote:
1 week ago
So I really don't want to play a ramp deck. Omnath is cool but I'm gonna get burned out after four games. I keep eyeing Numot, the Devastator and I think it's the kind of both stax I need to satisfy my playstyle, but not the overarching threat because who cares about a PLC dragon in 2021? Plus, it gets me off the undercosted universal tutours that are so often my lynchpin.
I mean the land destruction dragon is one that people are likely to care about, especially if your goal is to line it up with double strike to keep Stone Raining everything, but this feels very familiar. I don't generally recommend pulling away from colors you enjoy, but instead just... not running your crutch cards. Is there not a mechanic in your more preferred colors that you would want to build around? Nothing outside of stax and land destruction that you enjoy playing? Are all your pet cards pure spiteful Spike plays? I cannot imagine that there isn't at least something else that appeals to you in the game, surely.

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Post by 3drinks » 1 week ago

The idea behind it isn't to kill lands, but it's more of as leverage play "hey if you let me hit you with my dragon, I'll take out that gaea's cradle before we all just lose". It's sorta making an effort to work with people, but in that bash you in the face way that's synonymous with me. Least that's how I see it in my head. The dragon doesn't really factour into the grand scheme here though. I'm really angling into an artificer's intuition/salvaging station/tezzeret the seeker style of deck.

I hope I'm making sense.
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Post by Wallycaine » 1 week ago

Genuinely, have you considered just... not running unrestricted tutors? That's a fairly simple restriction to hold to, and it feels like you want to play black, and keep discarding the option because of tutors. It's sorta weird to me that you've got stuff like "white border only" decks, but just not playing stax or tutors despite having the option is a bridge too far when it comes to deckbuilding.

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Post by 3drinks » 1 week ago

Glissa isn't a stax deck, right? I remember years ago it was so fun to drum up value for days, and it would let me do artifact things.
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Post by darrenhabib » 1 week ago

3drinks wrote:
1 week ago
I'm really angling into an artificer's intuition/salvaging station/tezzeret the seeker style of deck.
There you go. How about Armix, Filigree Thrasher and Silas Renn, Seeker Adept for this idea?
Both of these can make really good use out of Artificer's Intuition.

I'm assuming your refrain from playing blue decks to date is along the lines of..
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Post by 3drinks » 1 week ago

darrenhabib wrote:
1 week ago
3drinks wrote:
1 week ago
I'm really angling into an artificer's intuition/salvaging station/tezzeret the seeker style of deck.
There you go. How about Armix, Filigree Thrasher and Silas Renn, Seeker Adept for this idea?
Both of these can make really good use out of Artificer's Intuition.

I'm assuming your refrain from playing blue decks to date is along the lines of..
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Ohmygosh that's actually perfect.
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