Swing out = Blow Out - mono white

[pokken]

Super basic quickie one but, I have this small sub theme in Mangara, the Diplomat ( viewtopic.php?f=35&t=32959) of what I think of as anti-alpha-strike tools. Basically, I want people to think hard before they swing out at me with lethal combat damage.

That list of cards is:

• Comeuppance
• settle the wreckage
• teferi's protection
• angel of the dire hour

Might try Selfless Squire in there at some point but trying to avoid stuff I might want to blink since there's no blink, it might be good enough as is I guess tho

Anyway, the question is:


Are there any solid, playable cards I'm missing that are absolute blowouts in mono-white when people swing out at you? If I could bring about 6 copies of Comeuppance in this deck I would I'm just trying to condition people to attack me with around 2 creatures so I can draw cards, by combining anti-swingout tech with monarch and Maze of Ith effects.

[darrenhabib]

Abu Ja'far + Blaze of Glory - oh baby baby old school defense.
Wing Shards can do damage if opponent has cast a few spells and you add to that count.

[bobthefunny]

I'll second Wing Shards. It's become a running joke in my group to ask what the storm count is, or if double white is up from how many times it's been a blowout. It got to the point where Dispense Justice was a serious consideration for a couple decks.

Mirror Strike is quite good at reflecting commander damage if you encounter any 1-hit-wonder voltron decks, but even a sizable creature can make a day.

I've been trying out Mandate of Peace as a 'fog' variant option, and have actually been quite happy with it. The secondary mode of shutting down follow up spells has really ruined some peoples hopes at recovering from the failed attack.

When it comes to wrath effects, I'm also a huge fan of Rout as people don't typically expect you to wrath on their turn. Tragic Arrogance also has some massive play potential, as you choose everyone's survivors.

My Linden and my Knights deck also both make decent use of the 3 mana indestructible spells. Ruining someone's attempt to clear your board is quite satisfying. Flawless Maneuver is obviously the best, but Unbreakable Formation and Make a Stand are both quite good, as is Rootborn Defenses.


I know you're asking particularly for mono-W, but in case you decide to explore this theme in other colors later, I just want to leave Boros Fury-Shield, Batwing Brume, and Reflect Damage, all as having blowout potential.

[toctheyounger]

Vengeful Dreams has been good for me in the past, although it does depend on your capacity to refill your hand.
Mandate of Peace could be good.
Masako the Humorless has flash before flash was a thing and gives you options to alter combat math. Similarly, Dictate of Heliod could do the same.
Harsh Justice has a gotcha vibe, although if I'm reading it right you still take the damage.
Akroma's Will is a card I really like. You could use it to curb the worst of ab alpha strike or offensively to close out the game too.
Faith's Reward gives you some options for blocking that'll keep you intact.
Acolyte's Reward gives a similar effect to Comeuppance, albeit more variable.

Not sure how helpful any of this is, top of my head stuff mostly. I thought mostly of instant speed stuff as no one really wants to attack into a fortress.

[Cyberium]

Gideon Jura could force creatures to attack into your favorable position. Court of Grace do that by giving you Monarch, and Bloodthirsty Blade/Martial Impetus can force combat in 1v1 situation. Crawlspace can limit the number of attackers so you can pick them off with your strong blockers.

Sunblast Angel is another who could handle the aftermath after the battle, and it could also pick off creatures who used their tapped abilities.

[pokken]

Wow, some great options here. I do have Gideon Jura already, and Flawless Maneuver and Akroma's Will.

Wing Shards is a great one I forgot, people usually are casting a few spells before their alpha strikes. And it works to double up on my targeted removal too (Path or swords or absent adds to storm count ofc).

Rout is on my maybe list--I'm trying another subtheme of not running any sweepers that hit my creatures/stuff in this deck, which is really unusual for me and tricky (So hard not to run Hour of Revelation ).

Vengeful Dreams is a sick one. Not sure I will have enough cards to play around with but maybe.

I think the best pickup there for what I'm after is Harsh Justice -- certainly can take them with me if nothing else which'll make'em think hard about how hard they attack after a couple times.

[DirkGently]

I think the best pickup there for what I'm after is Harsh Justice -- certainly can take them with me if nothing else which'll make'em think hard about how hard they attack after a couple times.

Unfortunately I don't believe that's true, since it's a triggered ability. You'll take lethal, put the trigger on the stack, and then die and all your abilities will be removed as an SBE. You have to live through it for the trigger to resolve. Angel's Grace?

[Dragoon]

Turn the Tables, reading the flavour text every time you're casting it during an opponent's alpha strike.
If they only have big monsters, Entrapment Maneuver might be worth it.

Fog effects like Riot Control can also fill the bill, imo. Voiding someone's attack phase can be very impactful.

[pokken]

I think the best pickup there for what I'm after is Harsh Justice -- certainly can take them with me if nothing else which'll make'em think hard about how hard they attack after a couple times.

Unfortunately I don't believe that's true, since it's a triggered ability. You'll take lethal, put the trigger on the stack, and then die and all your abilities will be removed as an SBE. You have to live through it for the trigger to resolve. Angel's Grace?

oh blah, it reads like a replacement effect but they slipped the 'whenever' into the oracle text. That makes it probably not worth running for me. This is a deck that depends somewhat on people developing conditioned responses.

[pokken]

Turn the Tables, reading the flavour text every time you're casting it during an opponent's alpha strike.
If they only have big monsters, Entrapment Maneuver might be worth it.

Fog effects like Riot Control can also fill the bill, imo. Voiding someone's attack phase can be very impactful.

I wish there were more fogs like Arachnogenesis in white, but single fogs just don't get the job done. Not even a Moment's Peace with flashback for two uses.

The main issue with general fogs are that they do not punish enough. I don't want people to just lose their attack step I want them punished horribly

Teferi's Protection is OK cos it doubles as a sweeper protection but it doesn't just outright kill them or sweep their board.

[Dragoon]

I wish there were more fogs like Arachnogenesis in white, but single fogs just don't get the job done. Not even a Moment's Peace with flashback for two uses.

The main issue with general fogs are that they do not punish enough. I don't want people to just lose their attack step I want them punished horribly

Teferi's Protection is OK cos it doubles as a sweeper protection but it doesn't just outright kill them or sweep their board.

Unfortunately, there's not many tools available for that in mono-white, at least to my knowledge. I used to play cards like that in my Kykar, Wind's Fury deck, stuff like Deflecting Palm, Reflect Damage, Aetherspouts or Mirror Match. Obligatory mention of Mirrorweave, which is especially hilarious when there is a 0/0 with counters lying around (well, except when it is the one attacking you I guess ).

[pokken]

Yeah, the closest we have is Prismatic Strands which probably would get the job done mostly. Kinda nice since I could block with Mangara of Corondor then tap her.

[toctheyounger]

I think the best pickup there for what I'm after is Harsh Justice -- certainly can take them with me if nothing else which'll make'em think hard about how hard they attack after a couple times.

Unfortunately I don't believe that's true, since it's a triggered ability. You'll take lethal, put the trigger on the stack, and then die and all your abilities will be removed as an SBE. You have to live through it for the trigger to resolve. Angel's Grace?

Correct, if you take lethal SBE's get you. Angel's Grace, Angel of Grace or Phyrexian Unlife would sort you out though.

@pokken there's a lot less surprise to these unless you have tricks up your sleeve, but would Lightmine Field, Pariah and Pariah's Shield be any help? Also Sunblast Angel is very underrated. I like it more than Angel of the Dire Hour because it doesn't need to be cast. Shenanigans required to make it flash though obviously.

[pokken]

Lightmine field does deter larger numbers of attackers but it doesn't work with the alpha strike issue a lot of the time -- too easy to play around -- and it protects others which I'm not in the business of lol

The pariah effects aren't horrid. I'm thinking about trying protector of the crown before any of that stuff since monarch is so good in this deck.

[toctheyounger]

Lightmine field does deter larger numbers of attackers but it doesn't work with the alpha strike issue a lot of the time -- too easy to play around -- and it protects others which I'm not in the business of lol

The pariah effects aren't horrid. I'm thinking about trying protector of the crown before any of that stuff since monarch is so good in this deck.

Protector is very good. I run it in Bruna and it does well despite being off tribe. I've had good results from Weathered Bodyguards too, but if its the only morph in your deck it does seem like the sort of trick your opponents would probably only fall for once.

The more I think about this the more weird niche cards come to mind. Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker? It deters from alpha striking you due to the high risk of crack back, and again if you can flash it in you've got a savage accounting of the board state. This also feels like the sort of deck Forcefield could see use in, but I don't have a copy and won't ever so Itd be pretty understandable if you can't source one either.

Considering how may of my suggestions require instant speed I guess I should also suggest Winding Canyons and Emergence Zone. Canyons is RL expensive now but worth having a copy of. Zone is considerably cheaper and in some ways slightly superior. Giving all of your spells flash till EOT instead of just creatures is pretty nice.

[WizardMN]

Yeah, the closest we have is Prismatic Strands which probably would get the job done mostly. Kinda nice since I could block with Mangara of Corondor then tap her.

I would be interested to hear how something like this ends up working. Obviously the main ones in your post are single use as well so getting a second use out of something like Strands can still be useful. I think I might like the effect of Seht's Tiger over it since Tiger won't stop your opponent's from being dealt damage but Strands does protect against things like Blasphemous Act so it can really come in handy to protect your board.

Also, Mangara is male

[pokken]

Also, Mangara is male

*sigh*

I literally played mangara in D&T in legacy and have been corrected dozens of times. I think it's all the years of Spanish, if something ends in A I mentally classify it as feminine automatically. No idea why I get literally every other magic card wrong but that's that one

Protector is very good. I run it in Bruna and it does well despite being off tribe. I've had good results from Weathered Bodyguards too, but if its the only morph in your deck it does seem like the sort of trick your opponents would probably only fall for once.

The more I think about this the more weird niche cards come to mind. Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker? It deters from alpha striking you due to the high risk of crack back, and again if you can flash it in you've got a savage accounting of the board state. This also feels like the sort of deck Forcefield could see use in, but I don't have a copy and won't ever so Itd be pretty understandable if you can't source one either.

Considering how may of my suggestions require instant speed I guess I should also suggest Winding Canyons and Emergence Zone. Canyons is RL expensive now but worth having a copy of. Zone is considerably cheaper and in some ways slightly superior. Giving all of your spells flash till EOT instead of just creatures is pretty nice.

It's definitely a forcefield deck, I should try to dig one up. I have some high dollar RL stuff I'm not using maybe I could swap.

Canyons maybe, deck cannot afford to be saccing lands though.

Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker seems possible? Will noodle on that one.

[pokken]

I know you're asking particularly for mono-W, but in case you decide to explore this theme in other colors later, I just want to leave Boros Fury-Shield, Batwing Brume, and Reflect Damage, all as having blowout potential.

Pretty wild that they literally just printed this:
Mila, Crafty Companion that's almost tailor made to be a boros superfriends deck

[Treamayne]

Might try Selfless Squire in there at some point but trying to avoid stuff I might want to blink since there's no blink, it might be good enough as is I guess though

Does it need blink though? A couple Whitemane Lion type creatures would give enough bounce and knowing the squire is back in your hand may be a deterrent in itself.

Vengeful Dreams is a sick one. Not sure I will have enough cards to play around with but maybe.

Vengeful Dreams plays well with Slate of Ancestry...

The pariah effects aren't horrid. I'm thinking about trying protector of the crown before any of that stuff since monarch is so good in this deck.

What about things like Gideon's Sacrifice with Stuffy Doll?

[pokken]

Does it need blink though? A couple Whitemane Lion type creatures would give enough bounce and knowing the squire is back in your hand may be a deterrent in itself.

not really just it kinda..depends on too much stuff I think? I don't have any room for those kinds of cards with planeswalking idiots I'd kinda like to cut back more on creatures honestly, if there was a spell version of Angel of the Dire Hour I'd play that for example.

Vengeful Dreams plays well with Slate of Ancestry...

What about things like Gideon's Sacrifice with Stuffy Doll?

Yeah I just don't have that volume of creatures, there're a few token makers but the deck is never really gonna have like 10 dudes or whatever.

The stuffy doll type synergies are cute but I think depend a bit too much on synergy -- there's just not a lot of ways to find that kinda stuff in mono white so having to both find doll and sacrifice is a lot of work.

Good thoughts though!

y'know i should probably just suck it up and play my Moat not like I need to attack with my guys anyway for the most part, at least not later in the game.

[pokken]

So I'm giving some thought to swapping this deck to Breena, the Demagogue and I wondered if adding black adds any new blowout cards like this beyond Inkshield.

Anyone think of any big instant blowouts like that?

edit: I remembered Batwing Brume the moment I walked away from the computer, @3drinks already mentioned that one in another thread and it slipped my mind. lollerskates.

[WizardMN]

Batwing Brume and Nemesis Trap are really the only ones I can see and even then it is mostly the former as the latter isn't really a blowout. The former might even be a bit of a stretch.

[toctheyounger]

So I'm giving some thought to swapping this deck to Breena, the Demagogue and I wondered if adding black adds any new blowout cards like this beyond Inkshield.

Anyone think of any big instant blowouts like that?

It's probably come to mind for you already, but Batwing Brume FTW. Oh and Simulacrum - this one won't work if the damage is lethal though, you'll die to SBA's before it resolves.

edit - although you do get access to things like No Mercy and Dread which isn't nothing I guess.

[Wallycaine]

So I'm giving some thought to swapping this deck to Breena, the Demagogue and I wondered if adding black adds any new blowout cards like this beyond Inkshield.

Anyone think of any big instant blowouts like that?

It's probably come to mind for you already, but Batwing Brume FTW. Oh and Simulacrum - this one won't work if the damage is lethal though, you'll die to SBA's before it resolves.

edit - although you do get access to things like No Mercy and Dread which isn't nothing I guess.

Initially, I was going to say that stuff like No Mercy and Dread worked against the general plan (by discouraging players from swinging in the first place), but if you can give them flash... that becomes more interesting. You do need to be able to survive the attack while still taking damage, though, so it might end up being too many moving pieces to make adding them worth it.

[toctheyounger]

So I'm giving some thought to swapping this deck to Breena, the Demagogue and I wondered if adding black adds any new blowout cards like this beyond Inkshield.

Anyone think of any big instant blowouts like that?

It's probably come to mind for you already, but Batwing Brume FTW. Oh and Simulacrum - this one won't work if the damage is lethal though, you'll die to SBA's before it resolves.

edit - although you do get access to things like No Mercy and Dread which isn't nothing I guess.

Initially, I was going to say that stuff like No Mercy and Dread worked against the general plan (by discouraging players from swinging in the first place), but if you can give them flash... that becomes more interesting. You do need to be able to survive the attack while still taking damage, though, so it might end up being too many moving pieces to make adding them worth it.

Oh I agree. I've run some of them before and it often ends up being a bit of a calculation as to whether they backfire on you or the attacker. Stuff like Emergence Zone make it easier to launch a massive backfire, but you're still toying with alpha strikes which is risky.