Warhammer 40K, Lord of the Rings, and other IPs in Magic.

User avatar
Krishnath
Mechanical Dragon
Posts: 3565
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: A cave somewhere in Scandinavia

Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

MTG needs more fanservice, for both genders, and preferably on the same card.

Speaking of Other IP's, one that would be perfect for MTG would be "The Elder Scrolls". :)
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.

Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.

The Commander Legacy Project, Come say hello and give your thoughts.

Like to read? Love books and want to recommend one to your fellow forum users? Go here.

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 3986
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
3 years ago
@toctheyounger @Dunharrow

I say let the man keep his scanty tunic! Women need fanservice too, a la Enthralling Victor. No one is complaining about that guy being underdressed.

Damn it, this the 21st century! Man thighs are on the menu.
I mean if that's the snack the ladies crave, I take no umbrage. I'm confused, but I'm alright with it. Also how many abs does Enthralling Victor even have? That's a standard thats tough to keep up with.

Where I draw the line is Sam Gamgee looking anything like this:
Image
Seriously, if you have a couple hours to waste find somewhere to watch Bakshi's LotR. It's mostly terrible.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
Dunharrow
Posts: 1821
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Montreal

Post by Dunharrow » 3 years ago

@Krishnath that brings up a good question - what kinds of IPs make the most sense?

Here we have LotR which is a huge multibillion dollar franchise. Targets for this product include:
- MtG players who like LotR
- LotR fans who are into games and will be more enticed to play Magic
- LotR collectors who may not have interest in playing
- LotR fans who are not into games but may get some casual interest with this product
Since it is a draft set, I think it will demand more resources and only be considered a success if it grows the MtG base by a lot with non gamers and gamers alike.

Warhammer 40K on the other hand has way less recognizability. To me, the targets audiences are:
- MtG players who like Warhammer
- Warhammer fans who may be interested in trying Magic
This is a lot safer of a product. It will be considered a success if it grows MtG player base (from Warhammer fans).

So, Elder Scrolls is interesting as it is a very successful video game franchise that could get players into Magic, but it does not have a lot of recognition for non-gamers.
I think WOTC probably has another 2-4 products being worked on for UB, but my guess is that they will be safe. Meaning, they will be very well known franchises or they will be products with limited print runs (like commander decks).

Based on each product's success, I think it will steer the direction for the future of UB. If Warhammer is not very successful growing the player base, I think it will be considered a failure, in which case niche franchises like Elder Scrolls may never be made.
If LotR does not get a lot of traction from non-gamers, but gets a lot of traction from within the gaming community, and Warhammer manages to get Warhammer players into Magic, I think we will see a lot of 'targeted' products aiming to convert fans of one type of game into Magic fans. In this case, Elder Scrolls would definitely be high on the list.

But my instincts tell me both products will be wildly successful, in which case Elder Scrolls may be pretty far down the list. There are a lot of franchises I think they would target before then.


Some ideas off the top of my head (okay I also looked at lists of the biggest film and video game franchises)
- Nintendo (Mario, Legend of Zelda, etc)
- Marvel (Avengers, X-Men, etc)
- DC Comics
- Street Fighter
- Final Fantasy
- League of Legends
- Dragon Ball
- Star Wars
- Pokemon (seems unlikely as it is a still popular TCG)
- Harry Potter (unlikely IMO based on WOTC distancing themselves from transphobic people)
- Pixar/Toy Story
- Transformers
- The Simpsons
- The Lion King
(wow, I feel like the list can be insanely long)

Many video game franchises have way more recognition than Elder Scrolls.
What piques my interest is that if you look at the biggest film franchises, some of them do not have enough characters for UB product to make sense. Look at Back to the Future. After about 30 cards I think you will be out of ideas. I wonder if there would be a possibility of doing a product like "Commander Time Travellers" - Back to the Future vs Bill & Ted vs Terminator vs Planet of the Apes.
The New World fell not to a sword but to a meme

User avatar
Dunharrow
Posts: 1821
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Montreal

Post by Dunharrow » 3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
3 years ago
@toctheyounger @Dunharrow

I say let the man keep his scanty tunic! Women need fanservice too, a la Enthralling Victor. No one is complaining about that guy being underdressed.

Damn it, this the 21st century! Man thighs are on the menu.
I mean if that's the snack the ladies crave, I take no umbrage. I'm confused, but I'm alright with it. Also how many abs does Enthralling Victor even have? That's a standard thats tough to keep up with.

Where I draw the line is Sam Gamgee looking anything like this:
Image
Seriously, if you have a couple hours to waste find somewhere to watch Bakshi's LotR. It's mostly terrible.
While it is terrible, Peter Jackson stole so many ideas from it. He was a big fan. So when you watch it, you will constantly see familiar shots.
The New World fell not to a sword but to a meme

User avatar
Krishnath
Mechanical Dragon
Posts: 3565
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: A cave somewhere in Scandinavia

Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

Dunharrow wrote:
3 years ago
@Krishnath that brings up a good question - what kinds of IPs make the most sense?

Here we have LotR which is a huge multibillion dollar franchise. Targets for this product include:
- MtG players who like LotR
- LotR fans who are into games and will be more enticed to play Magic
- LotR collectors who may not have interest in playing
- LotR fans who are not into games but may get some casual interest with this product
Since it is a draft set, I think it will demand more resources and only be considered a success if it grows the MtG base by a lot with non gamers and gamers alike.

Warhammer 40K on the other hand has way less recognizability. To me, the targets audiences are:
- MtG players who like Warhammer
- Warhammer fans who may be interested in trying Magic
This is a lot safer of a product. It will be considered a success if it grows MtG player base (from Warhammer fans).

So, Elder Scrolls is interesting as it is a very successful video game franchise that could get players into Magic, but it does not have a lot of recognition for non-gamers.
I think WOTC probably has another 2-4 products being worked on for UB, but my guess is that they will be safe. Meaning, they will be very well known franchises or they will be products with limited print runs (like commander decks).

Based on each product's success, I think it will steer the direction for the future of UB. If Warhammer is not very successful growing the player base, I think it will be considered a failure, in which case niche franchises like Elder Scrolls may never be made.
If LotR does not get a lot of traction from non-gamers, but gets a lot of traction from within the gaming community, and Warhammer manages to get Warhammer players into Magic, I think we will see a lot of 'targeted' products aiming to convert fans of one type of game into Magic fans. In this case, Elder Scrolls would definitely be high on the list.

But my instincts tell me both products will be wildly successful, in which case Elder Scrolls may be pretty far down the list. There are a lot of franchises I think they would target before then.


Some ideas off the top of my head (okay I also looked at lists of the biggest film and video game franchises)
- Nintendo (Mario, Legend of Zelda, etc)
- Marvel (Avengers, X-Men, etc)
- DC Comics
- Street Fighter
- Final Fantasy
- League of Legends
- Dragon Ball
- Star Wars
- Pokemon (seems unlikely as it is a still popular TCG)
- Harry Potter (unlikely IMO based on WOTC distancing themselves from transphobic people)
- Pixar/Toy Story
- Transformers
- The Simpsons
- The Lion King
(wow, I feel like the list can be insanely long)

Many video game franchises have way more recognition than Elder Scrolls.
What piques my interest is that if you look at the biggest film franchises, some of them do not have enough characters for UB product to make sense. Look at Back to the Future. After about 30 cards I think you will be out of ideas. I wonder if there would be a possibility of doing a product like "Commander Time Travellers" - Back to the Future vs Bill & Ted vs Terminator vs Planet of the Apes.
The Elder Scrolls has a lot of brand recognition, Skyrim is literally the most popular western computer RPG, like, ever. By 2016 it had sold over 30 million copies, and it has only increased since then (much of its success it owes to the PC version(s) being incredibly easy to mod.)

As for whether or not a UB product is considered a success, that entirely comes down to units sold. If any of them don't sell well, that particular franchise is considered a dud. LotR is going to sell very well due to there being significant overlap between the fans of it and MTG. I am not so sure about WH40k though. As I've mentioned elsewhere GW really dislikes WotC (And TSR before them), and them agreeing to this product smells of desperation on their part. But I might be reading to much into it.

As for your other considered franchises, I think we can safely ignore the major Disney franchises such as Star Wars and Marvel, they are such media juggernauts already that they don't actually need the additional exposure. It's a little different with DC though, but that is mostly because their movies (outside of Batman) tend to not be very good. They try so hard at doing what Disney/Marvel have done, but they keep failing as hard, if not harder, than Fox did. Lol.
Nintendo I could see, particularly with Legend of Zelda, there is some overlap between fans of MTG and fans of LoZ, and both being fantasy franchises is a big plus. I could see an Animal Crossing product as well, but I doubt any other of their major franchises would happen. Pokemon is a direct rival to MTG already, and Mario is such a media juggernaut already that it doesn't actually need the exposure. That said, it would be nice to get a couple of legendary turtle dragons to play with in MTG.
Final Fantasy, or Square/Enix stuff in general I could see, although it tends to head towards magitech, so...
Transformers being another Hasbro product does make it at least possible, but it would require a lot of DFC cards to pull off.
Harry Potter is not going to happen for two major reasons: The author being both. And her being transphobic is only one of them, the other is that she is extremely greedy when it comes to her IP. WotC would literally either have to price it so high as to it not selling, or making a loss on each unit sold. And Hasbro would never allow that.
League of Legends is possible, but that franchise is already exceptionally popular. That said, I know I am not the only one that'd like seeing K/DA on cards. Lol.
Dragonball could also happen, it's basically fantasy already.
Dunharrow wrote:
3 years ago
toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
3 years ago
@toctheyounger @Dunharrow

I say let the man keep his scanty tunic! Women need fanservice too, a la Enthralling Victor. No one is complaining about that guy being underdressed.

Damn it, this the 21st century! Man thighs are on the menu.
I mean if that's the snack the ladies crave, I take no umbrage. I'm confused, but I'm alright with it. Also how many abs does Enthralling Victor even have? That's a standard thats tough to keep up with.

Where I draw the line is Sam Gamgee looking anything like this:
Image
Seriously, if you have a couple hours to waste find somewhere to watch Bakshi's LotR. It's mostly terrible.
While it is terrible, Peter Jackson stole so many ideas from it. He was a big fan. So when you watch it, you will constantly see familiar shots.
The familiar shots would probably have happened regardless, as both versions are fairly faithful retellings of the books.
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.

Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.

The Commander Legacy Project, Come say hello and give your thoughts.

Like to read? Love books and want to recommend one to your fellow forum users? Go here.

User avatar
TheAmericanSpirit
Supreme Dumb Guy
Posts: 2195
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 1
Pronoun: he / him
Location: IGMCULSL Papal Palace

Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 3 years ago

@toctheyounger

I can't know for certain whether it's the snack the ladies crave, but I am saying that if we're working with an IP with canonical access to muscular man thighs, WotC should offer the ladies a snack.

Edit: grammar
There's no biscuits and gravy in New Zealand.
(Except when DirkGently makes them!)

User avatar
Dunharrow
Posts: 1821
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Montreal

Post by Dunharrow » 3 years ago

Krishnath wrote:
3 years ago
Dunharrow wrote:
3 years ago
@Krishnath that brings up a good question - what kinds of IPs make the most sense?

Here we have LotR which is a huge multibillion dollar franchise. Targets for this product include:
- MtG players who like LotR
- LotR fans who are into games and will be more enticed to play Magic
- LotR collectors who may not have interest in playing
- LotR fans who are not into games but may get some casual interest with this product
Since it is a draft set, I think it will demand more resources and only be considered a success if it grows the MtG base by a lot with non gamers and gamers alike.

Warhammer 40K on the other hand has way less recognizability. To me, the targets audiences are:
- MtG players who like Warhammer
- Warhammer fans who may be interested in trying Magic
This is a lot safer of a product. It will be considered a success if it grows MtG player base (from Warhammer fans).

So, Elder Scrolls is interesting as it is a very successful video game franchise that could get players into Magic, but it does not have a lot of recognition for non-gamers.
I think WOTC probably has another 2-4 products being worked on for UB, but my guess is that they will be safe. Meaning, they will be very well known franchises or they will be products with limited print runs (like commander decks).

Based on each product's success, I think it will steer the direction for the future of UB. If Warhammer is not very successful growing the player base, I think it will be considered a failure, in which case niche franchises like Elder Scrolls may never be made.
If LotR does not get a lot of traction from non-gamers, but gets a lot of traction from within the gaming community, and Warhammer manages to get Warhammer players into Magic, I think we will see a lot of 'targeted' products aiming to convert fans of one type of game into Magic fans. In this case, Elder Scrolls would definitely be high on the list.

But my instincts tell me both products will be wildly successful, in which case Elder Scrolls may be pretty far down the list. There are a lot of franchises I think they would target before then.


Some ideas off the top of my head (okay I also looked at lists of the biggest film and video game franchises)
- Nintendo (Mario, Legend of Zelda, etc)
- Marvel (Avengers, X-Men, etc)
- DC Comics
- Street Fighter
- Final Fantasy
- League of Legends
- Dragon Ball
- Star Wars
- Pokemon (seems unlikely as it is a still popular TCG)
- Harry Potter (unlikely IMO based on WOTC distancing themselves from transphobic people)
- Pixar/Toy Story
- Transformers
- The Simpsons
- The Lion King
(wow, I feel like the list can be insanely long)

Many video game franchises have way more recognition than Elder Scrolls.
What piques my interest is that if you look at the biggest film franchises, some of them do not have enough characters for UB product to make sense. Look at Back to the Future. After about 30 cards I think you will be out of ideas. I wonder if there would be a possibility of doing a product like "Commander Time Travellers" - Back to the Future vs Bill & Ted vs Terminator vs Planet of the Apes.
The Elder Scrolls has a lot of brand recognition, Skyrim is literally the most popular western computer RPG, like, ever. By 2016 it had sold over 30 million copies, and it has only increased since then (much of its success it owes to the PC version(s) being incredibly easy to mod.)

As for whether or not a UB product is considered a success, that entirely comes down to units sold. If any of them don't sell well, that particular franchise is considered a dud. LotR is going to sell very well due to there being significant overlap between the fans of it and MTG. I am not so sure about WH40k though. As I've mentioned elsewhere GW really dislikes WotC (And TSR before them), and them agreeing to this product smells of desperation on their part. But I might be reading to much into it.

As for your other considered franchises, I think we can safely ignore the major Disney franchises such as Star Wars and Marvel, they are such media juggernauts already that they don't actually need the additional exposure. It's a little different with DC though, but that is mostly because their movies (outside of Batman) tend to not be very good. They try so hard at doing what Disney/Marvel have done, but they keep failing as hard, if not harder, than Fox did. Lol.
Nintendo I could see, particularly with Legend of Zelda, there is some overlap between fans of MTG and fans of LoZ, and both being fantasy franchises is a big plus. I could see an Animal Crossing product as well, but I doubt any other of their major franchises would happen. Pokemon is a direct rival to MTG already, and Mario is such a media juggernaut already that it doesn't actually need the exposure. That said, it would be nice to get a couple of legendary turtle dragons to play with in MTG.
Final Fantasy, or Square/Enix stuff in general I could see, although it tends to head towards magitech, so...
Transformers being another Hasbro product does make it at least possible, but it would require a lot of DFC cards to pull off.
Harry Potter is not going to happen for two major reasons: The author being both. And her being transphobic is only one of them, the other is that she is extremely greedy when it comes to her IP. WotC would literally either have to price it so high as to it not selling, or making a loss on each unit sold. And Hasbro would never allow that.
League of Legends is possible, but that franchise is already exceptionally popular. That said, I know I am not the only one that'd like seeing K/DA on cards. Lol.
Dragonball could also happen, it's basically fantasy already.
Dunharrow wrote:
3 years ago
toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago

I mean if that's the snack the ladies crave, I take no umbrage. I'm confused, but I'm alright with it. Also how many abs does Enthralling Victor even have? That's a standard thats tough to keep up with.

Where I draw the line is Sam Gamgee looking anything like this:
Image
Seriously, if you have a couple hours to waste find somewhere to watch Bakshi's LotR. It's mostly terrible.
While it is terrible, Peter Jackson stole so many ideas from it. He was a big fan. So when you watch it, you will constantly see familiar shots.
The familiar shots would probably have happened regardless, as both versions are fairly faithful retellings of the books.
Maybe it is just the pages I viewed, but Elder Scrolls was not anywhere near the highest grossing franchises. But I suppose if it did very well in the last few years it could make sense.

I also don't really understand your points about Nintendo and Marvel and Disney 'not needing exposure'. Lord of the Rings does not need exposure - it has long-been the most well-known fantasy franchise in the world. I mean, if it comes out and it is really made to promote the Amazon series, I guess you could say that this drove the product's creation, but I just do not believe that is the case.

I do not think the main goal is to drive affinity for other IPs by making magic products. It is, in my opinion, to drive affinity for Magic from fans of those other IPs.
You are right though - even if the only people who buy Lord of the Rings are existing Magic players, the product will be a success.
I just think that something like Warhammer is not to get Magic players to get into Warhammer - quite the opposite in fact.

If I am a big Star Wars fan and there is a commander deck for the Rebel Alliance I think I could be interested in buying it and learning the game.

If anything Disney would not license its franchises to WOTC because they would rather make a product themselves and make all of the profit.

I guess it will depend on the relationship between Hasbro and Disney.

EDIT - I am just not sure if I am misunderstanding you - but it looked to me like you were implying that Magic players would see a Star Wars product and become bigger fans of the franchise. Doesn't make sense to me..

I think these two products are really aimed at understanding:
1. How a product can drive business from fans of another IP
2. How existing magic players will buy into a product based on a very well-known IP
The New World fell not to a sword but to a meme

User avatar
Krishnath
Mechanical Dragon
Posts: 3565
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: A cave somewhere in Scandinavia

Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

Dunharrow wrote:
3 years ago
Maybe it is just the pages I viewed, but Elder Scrolls was not anywhere near the highest grossing franchises. But I suppose if it did very well in the last few years it could make sense.
30 million copies sold by 2016 literally makes it the single most popular western style fantasy computer RPG literally ever, and it gives a lot of the eastern ones like Final Fantasy a run for there money. It's current, let me check, number of sales has passed 50 million copies. That literally means that it has sold more copies than the most popular eastern style RPG (Which incidentally is Pokemon Red/Blue/Green/Yellow). So, yeah. Now that only counts the individual Skyrim game, when you count the entire Franchise, Pokemon still wins, but that's primarily because of Pokemon Go. Lol. And in that case Final Fantasy also has sold more than Elder Scrolls, but that is not really surprising since there is more than three times as many Final Fantasy games than Elder Scrolls ones. >.<
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.

Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.

The Commander Legacy Project, Come say hello and give your thoughts.

Like to read? Love books and want to recommend one to your fellow forum users? Go here.

User avatar
RedCheese
Posts: 372
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by RedCheese » 3 years ago

Elder Scrolls had an online card game before. So who knows.

I wished it was Fantasy Warhmmar instead of 40k one to fit within more in theme of magic like LotR. Tough i really want to play as Nekrons.

onering
Posts: 1227
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 1
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by onering » 3 years ago

Skyrim was a pretty big deal, and made Elder Scrolls one of the biggest video game franchises in existence. Oblivion sold a lot as well, and Elder Scrolls online is going strong.

User avatar
Krishnath
Mechanical Dragon
Posts: 3565
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: A cave somewhere in Scandinavia

Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

RedCheese wrote:
3 years ago
Elder Scrolls had an online card game before. So who knows.

I wished it was Fantasy Warhmmar instead of 40k one to fit within more in theme of magic like LotR. Tough i really want to play as Nekrons.
The Nekrons are pretty cool, but then again, anything that the forces of Chaos are scared of is cool in my book.
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.

Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.

The Commander Legacy Project, Come say hello and give your thoughts.

Like to read? Love books and want to recommend one to your fellow forum users? Go here.

User avatar
Ruiner
Posts: 604
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Ruiner » 3 years ago

Give me Bloodborne and Dark Souls if we are going video games. Bloodborne would fit in wonderfully with Innistrad and Eldrazi horror themes. Let me have a Lady Maria or Orphan of Kos commander deck please.

The Double Masters "Sword of" cycle and Stoneforge Mystic looked like they were trying to evoke the Dark Souls feel to some degree.

User avatar
Gashnaw
Posts: 318
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Gashnaw » 3 years ago

I still want space marines .i just hope the commander deck is not chocked full of.garbage just to give us space marines.

I will eventually want zerglings.

User avatar
Dunharrow
Posts: 1821
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Montreal

Post by Dunharrow » 3 years ago

Gashnaw wrote:
3 years ago
I still want space marines .i just hope the commander deck is not chocked full of.garbage just to give us space marines.

I will eventually want zerglings.
So, the decks will have some 40 lands, right?
Of which about 30 will be basics
I am guessing we get 1 to 2 new lands, and Warhammer-inspired versions of the others. Just don't know if it will be something like Vivid Crag with spacey art or if it will be a Godzilla treatment.
That leaves us 60 cards per deck. Expecting 20ish new cards per deck.

I really want to know how they handle reprints.

But maybe you will get a Space Marine version of staples!
The New World fell not to a sword but to a meme

User avatar
Krishnath
Mechanical Dragon
Posts: 3565
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: A cave somewhere in Scandinavia

Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

Dunharrow wrote:
3 years ago
Just don't know if it will be something like Vivid Crag with spacey art or if it will be a Godzilla treatment.
I really, really, really, loathe the vivid lands. There are literally half a dozen better choices for each color combination than those, some of which are commons (In a two color deck I'd rather have a gate and a comes into play tapped a la Meandering River than a vivid land, that is how little I think of them. And in three colors, I would rather have three gates.) Seriously, outside of limited they are terrible. You can tap them for off color twice, and that's it. Bleh.

Enough ranting, back on topic.
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.

Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.

The Commander Legacy Project, Come say hello and give your thoughts.

Like to read? Love books and want to recommend one to your fellow forum users? Go here.

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4540
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

Gashnaw wrote:
3 years ago
I will eventually want zerglings.
Seems unlikely given that Blizzard is in direct competition with Wizards over the online TCG market.
Krishnath wrote:
3 years ago
(In a two color deck I'd rather have a gate and a comes into play tapped a la Meandering River than a vivid land, that is how little I think of them.)
Isn't that kind of obvious? They both etbt, the vivid taps for your second color twice, the gate taps for it any number of times. Unless you want the vivid to generate outside-of-CI mana for some reason.

I also hate them, but not just because they're pretty bad and get way overused in precons - but mostly because keeping track of counters on lands is an annoying pain in the butt, and usually with vivids you'll keep at least one counter on forever since you'll probably stop needing the fixing at some point. If I'm playing a precon, I'll usually just remove the counters if my fixing is resolved.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

User avatar
folding_music
glitter pen on my mana crypt
Posts: 2236
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: they / them

Post by folding_music » 3 years ago

I'm thinking about teh 40k commander precons as massively expanded Secret Lairs, cos you know they can't resist printing, like

Dismember, with a genestealer scything off a terminator's arm
Seismic Assault, with one of those big cannons

if they're commissioning new art for reprints, they're gonna reprint spectacular beloved cards and not Pacifism etc

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4540
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

folding_music wrote:
3 years ago
I'm thinking about teh 40k commander precons as massively expanded Secret Lairs, cos you know they can't resist printing, like

Dismember, with a genestealer scything off a terminator's arm
Seismic Assault, with one of those big cannons

if they're commissioning new art for reprints, they're gonna reprint spectacular beloved cards and not Pacifism etc
Seismic Assault: In 995 decks
Pacifism: In 2480 decks

Lol
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

User avatar
folding_music
glitter pen on my mana crypt
Posts: 2236
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: they / them

Post by folding_music » 3 years ago

how do I dislike a post =P

User avatar
Krishnath
Mechanical Dragon
Posts: 3565
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: A cave somewhere in Scandinavia

Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
3 years ago
I also hate them, but not just because they're pretty bad and get way overused in precons - but mostly because keeping track of counters on lands is an annoying pain in the butt, and usually with vivids you'll keep at least one counter on forever since you'll probably stop needing the fixing at some point. If I'm playing a precon, I'll usually just remove the counters if my fixing is resolved.
If I want outside color mana, I'll run a flipping Shimmering Grotto, Unknown Shores, or City of Brass. There are literally dozens of better options for access to all five colors of mana. Heck, even friggin' Celestial Prism is more useful than Vivid Lands, and that sucks these days.
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.

Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.

The Commander Legacy Project, Come say hello and give your thoughts.

Like to read? Love books and want to recommend one to your fellow forum users? Go here.

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4540
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

Krishnath wrote:
3 years ago
If I want outside color mana, I'll run a flipping Shimmering Grotto, Unknown Shores, or City of Brass. There are literally dozens of better options for access to all five colors of mana. Heck, even friggin' Celestial Prism is more useful than Vivid Lands, and that sucks these days.
Lol, I hate vivids too, but I'm pretty sure saying a card is worse than Celestial Prism is the magic card equivalent of fightin' words.

(they're bad but they're not THAT bad, c'mon. in most cases they're probably better than those lands except CoB and that one's $20)
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

User avatar
Dunharrow
Posts: 1821
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Montreal

Post by Dunharrow » 3 years ago

I know the Vivid lands are bad. I just mentioned them because they show up in all the commander decks, as if people want these terrible lands.
I would much prefer painlands, but they have names that are specific to MtG.
The New World fell not to a sword but to a meme

User avatar
Krishnath
Mechanical Dragon
Posts: 3565
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: A cave somewhere in Scandinavia

Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
3 years ago
Krishnath wrote:
3 years ago
If I want outside color mana, I'll run a flipping Shimmering Grotto, Unknown Shores, or City of Brass. There are literally dozens of better options for access to all five colors of mana. Heck, even friggin' Celestial Prism is more useful than Vivid Lands, and that sucks these days.
Lol, I hate vivids too, but I'm pretty sure saying a card is worse than Celestial Prism is the magic card equivalent of fightin' words.

(they're bad but they're not THAT bad, c'mon. in most cases they're probably better than those lands except CoB and that one's $20)
Except, the literally, in every word of the meaning are worse than Celestial Prism, because they can only ever be used to produce off color twice, while the prism can always filter mana as long as you have the mana.
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.

Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.

The Commander Legacy Project, Come say hello and give your thoughts.

Like to read? Love books and want to recommend one to your fellow forum users? Go here.

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4540
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

Krishnath wrote:
3 years ago
Except, the literally, in every word of the meaning are worse than Celestial Prism, because they can only ever be used to produce off color twice, while the prism can always filter mana as long as you have the mana.
...is this a real argument? Celestial prism costs 3, doesn't net any mana, and loses you a mana when you activate it. I can't imagine any deck playing prism over a vivid land.

If you're just meming, ignore me I guess.

If I was on a budget and had a deck that occasionally wanted off-CI mana - say like Gonti, Lord of Luxury where you usually don't care about fixing but sometimes you'll want to activate an ability - I could imagine playing it. I also ran one in my Chisei, Heart of Oceans deck as a failsafe in case my other counter-laden permanents got removed. There are worse budget options, but they're definitely way overprinted. Especially in 2-color decks, that's just stupid.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

User avatar
Krishnath
Mechanical Dragon
Posts: 3565
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: A cave somewhere in Scandinavia

Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
3 years ago
...is this a real argument? Celestial prism costs 3, doesn't net any mana, and loses you a mana when you activate it. I can't imagine any deck playing prism over a vivid land.
I would, if I had the right deck.... Say one that doubled the effect of any activated ability of artifacts... But yeah, I really loathe Vivid lands to the extent that I would rather play a basic over it. But my point was that there are many better alternatives for off color mana than the vivid lands, some of which are common.
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.

Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.

The Commander Legacy Project, Come say hello and give your thoughts.

Like to read? Love books and want to recommend one to your fellow forum users? Go here.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Commander”