MTGNexus

My issue is its got the same stats as a Jitte for much more narrow applications. If you control your curve, you realize you don't need a rampant growth every turn. For less cost I can get mask of memory and for one more initially (and the same equip cost) I can buy a SoFaI or SoFaF. Ofc due to the spotlight card's nature, it can't be any cheaper; you can't make this cost like a bonesplitter because that's just not okay.

So I think, due to it's stats, it just pales to what I could be doing. That doesn't make it bad - but it's not gonna be first choice given the other company the top equipments take. And there's a definite cap for number of equipments a deck can actually play.

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

My issue is its got the same stats as a Jitte for much more narrow applications. If you control your curve, you realize you don't need a rampant growth every turn. For less cost I can get mask of memory and for one more initially (and the same equip cost) I can buy a SoFaI or SoFaF. Ofc due to the spotlight card's nature, it can't be any cheaper; you can't make this cost like a bonesplitter because that's just not okay.

So I think, due to it's stats, it just pales to what I could be doing. That doesn't make it bad - but it's not gonna be first choice given the other company the top equipments take. And there's a definite cap for number of equipments a deck can actually play.

This is all true, but the stats on this sword aren't what you play it for. If you're trying to Voltron your commander or just suit up some big beaters, that requires a whole different category of equipment. Sword of the Animist probably shouldn't even go in many green EDH decks unless there is a very specific reason (eg: Emeria, the Sky Ruin or similar effect in one of your other colors, as mentioned earlier). What it does get you is a powerful, albeit incremental, ramp effect if you are playing a color/guild/wedge without many good ramp options. I can't see myself ever not wanting to include it in a mono-black deck, for example, unless the strategy was very narrowly specific and didn't want to attack or have more swamps in play for whatever reason.

MeowZeDung wrote: ↑

4 years ago

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

My issue is its got the same stats as a Jitte for much more narrow applications. If you control your curve, you realize you don't need a rampant growth every turn. For less cost I can get mask of memory and for one more initially (and the same equip cost) I can buy a SoFaI or SoFaF. Ofc due to the spotlight card's nature, it can't be any cheaper; you can't make this cost like a bonesplitter because that's just not okay.

So I think, due to it's stats, it just pales to what I could be doing. That doesn't make it bad - but it's not gonna be first choice given the other company the top equipments take. And there's a definite cap for number of equipments a deck can actually play.

This is all true, but the stats on this sword aren't what you play it for. If you're trying to Voltron your commander or just suit up some big beaters, that requires a whole different category of equipment. Sword of the Animist probably shouldn't even go in many green EDH decks unless there is a very specific reason (eg: Emeria, the Sky Ruin or similar effect in one of your other colors, as mentioned earlier). What it does get you is a powerful, albeit incremental, ramp effect if you are playing a color/guild/wedge without many good ramp options. I can't see myself ever not wanting to include it in a mono-black deck, for example, unless the strategy was very narrowly specific and didn't want to attack or have more swamps in play for whatever reason.

But if that's the reason...then surely you'll be much, much better off with a Thawing Glaciers. No reliance on an available attacking creature, less startup cost, slots into manabase rather than an effective 4 for the first land. That's what I'm saying, for what it does, it doesn't measure up neither to other options you have, nor is it as powerful as other equipments for comparable costs.

Eh, thawing glaciers puts you down -2 mana per land and does not ramp. Not even remotely comparable.

(I say this is as guy who plays a lot of thawing glaciers lol -- it is really good when it''s good but it doesn't serve the same purpose).

pokken wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Eh, thawing glaciers puts you down -2 mana per land and does not ramp. Not even remotely comparable.

(I say this is as guy who plays a lot of thawing glaciers lol -- it is really good when it''s good but it doesn't serve the same purpose).

Does it, though? When you do the math it's responsible for ~0.75 lands/2 turns. I'd rather that, than start at 4 to get another land. Which is pretty slow for ramp, if we're being honest, when 4 commonly buys you +2 lands.

pokken wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Eh, thawing glaciers puts you down -2 mana per land and does not ramp. Not even remotely comparable.

(I say this is as guy who plays a lot of thawing glaciers lol -- it is really good when it''s good but it doesn't serve the same purpose).

And the "extra" land onto the board tapped doesn't outdo the -2 mana per fetch once it untaps next turn if you keep dropping glaciers and activating it. You're just taking two steps forward, one step back at best. In an average game, assuming you hit glaciers on T1-3, how many times are you really interested in playing it and activating it? 2? 3? With the sword you at least have a chance of only needing to pay the equip cost once, and even if you only get 2 swings out of your first equip cost you've already outdone glaciers' rate.

Also, if I'm being honest here, Thawing Glaciers is an older card that far fewer current players are likely to have opened at a draft or pre-release than a card from Origins, and it costs double what the sword does if purchasing the single. Availability and budget is a factor in deckbuilding for the majority of players.

I get what 3drinks is saying, and I'm not arguing that Sword of the Animist is a staple. It's only good in a narrow set of circumstances that I would roughly outline as mono color / weak ramp color decks, and landfall decks. Of course you also need a creature to attack with, etc. etc. It's not an all star, but ironically that's part of what makes it playable. It's basically got key word "mediocre" and will hardly ever get targeted, unlike Jitte, Skullclamp, SOFaF, SOFI, and the like which are instant targets. I've seen it pull 6-7 swamps out of a deck for a huge Cabal Coffers play later in the game enough times that I will always at least respect it.

....I'm actually also running Thawing Glaciers to enable Emeria in my deck. (insert whynotboth.jpg here)

Re: speed - yes, Sword of the Animist is slow in comparison to most ramp spells. But realistically, if you're considering any color other than green, four mana for a land is pretty close to the standard rate - compare Knight of the White Orchid and Kor Cartographer in white, Dreamscape Artist in blue, and Solemn Simulacrum and Burnished Hart in colorless. In general, the land-ramp options for nongreen decks are really shallow. Which is relevant if you expect any sort of mass artifact removal, Cyclonic Rift, Null Rod, or any one of a dozen other ways to get rid of mana rocks and want to diversify your ramp options a bit.

I did not expect such a spirited discussion when this card came up, honestly. I've been heartily enjoying the back and forth over this and similar options.

MeowZeDung wrote: ↑

4 years ago

And the "extra" land onto the board tapped doesn't outdo the -2 mana per fetch once it untaps next turn if you keep dropping glaciers and activating it. You're just taking two steps forward, one step back at best. In an average game, assuming you hit glaciers on T1-3, how many times are you really interested in playing it and activating it? 2? 3?

When I drop it on t1, yes, typically I'll have used it twice. Maybe three times if I drew land light. At which point it sticks around as a source of CA baked into the mana base. No conditions, no "but you need to attack". And that's at the base. Once you figure in land untaps (it's almost infinite with stone-seeder hierophant), synergy with rav karoos and lairs, landfall in general (you keep making land drops all game), there's so much more upside to it than an oomphed up leonin scimitar.

Criday, November 22nd, 2019; Storm Cauldron

Another rcotd already? Ha, I still want to argue about ruination.

Super weird card, but pretty interesting. Really powerful for landfall I suppose. I don't see any great ways to break the symmetry of it tbh. I like cards that shake up the game without being easily broken (like how winter orb is broken in urza etc).

+ Warped Devotion

Good way to get multiple uses out of your big-mana land.

Feels like as big or bigger a groanfest than Winter Orb.

Serenade wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Good way to get multiple uses out of your big-mana land.

Then again I hadn't thought of that. . . Gaea's Cradle, Cabal Coffers, and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx could abuse this. Still, staxy things feel gross too me.

Do not like.

The one time I used this, and it seems to be the only real home for this, was an old Azusa, Lost But Seeking deck of mine. And it was very strong, enough so to force a concession anyway. Seems to be it's only home, but I'd wager a guess that it's just about as good in rock and mana dork heavy decks. Anything that doesn't rely on lands to fix. Would probably pair well with Desolation...

DirkGently wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Another rcotd already? Ha, I still want to argue about ruination.

Super weird card, but pretty interesting. Really powerful for landfall I suppose. I don't see any great ways to break the symmetry of it tbh. I like cards that shake up the game without being easily broken (like how winter orb is broken in urza etc).

I actually had a few responses to that last reply, but I woke up too late to type them up before I needed to head to work. Will try this morning though. Love a good chat about nonbasic hate.

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Criday, November 22nd, 2019; Storm Cauldron

I also used it in Azusa (and then later, Patron of the Moon, but it was a huge NPE, and kind of a hassle. As [mention]Serenade[/mention] mentioned, the strongest use is to leverage degenerate lands, which doesn't exactly make me want to play it more.

It's a great engine in my Tatyova deck. Plus you get some free scoops from impatient opponents!

Storm Cauldron is functionally very close to Winter Orb, in my experience. It's possible to break the symmetry by having a bunch of extra land drops, which can make it pretty potent in green decks with Exploration, Burgeoning, and a bunch of other ways to play extra lands. On the other hand, if you don't have a bunch of extra land drops, it's a miserable card to play against - you effectively only get two untapped lands per turn, in comparison to Winter Orb's one, which isn't that much of an improvement.

MeowZeDung wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Feels like as big or bigger a groanfest than Winter Orb.

It's not as oppressive as the Orb, and is much more green-friendly (since who else can play so many more additional lands?) but I have to say, it's not my favorite. I much prefer Orb (for the same reason you don't like Orb).

It has the obligatory landfall synergy, and spell lands, but it loses Gush and friends, since e.g. Daze and Force Spike are basically the same card now.

Saturday, November 23rd, 2019; Doomed Necromancer

Methinks this is a cube card more than an EDH card, but I rarely play black GY strategies beyond a Sidisi, Brood Tyrant deck I used to have.

I will say I like the idea of eating a Wurmcoil Engine or Grave Titan or Noxious Gearhulk with Carrion Feeder and having ways to bring them back beyond just Reanimate. Doomed Necromancer might deserve a spot in such a reanimation package.

The tap does it in for me, since it means I have to somehow give it haste to use it the way I want. That said, I would probably adore this in formats other than eternal, but since this is eternal, Reanimate and Animate Dead, among others, come first.

This guy was always a great Alesha target. Bring him back and threaten my Elesh Norn (conveniently hidden inside my deck until I EoT Entomb you). To a similar extent, Apprentice Necromancer exists as well.

I'm considering Doomed Necromancer and/or Apprentice Necromancer for my Marchesa rebuild as ways of recurring stuff that didn't get her trigger in some way, since there will be sources of haste. I might end up sticking with other means like Chainer, Nightmare Adept/Havengul Lich and not worrying about that kind of recursion too much. Even aside from the haste, I doubt the folks in my group would want to spend removal on either of the necromancers.

I could see the necromancers working well in Meren, too, and decsk with Chainer, Nightmare Adept at the helm.

Doomed Necromancer gets a 'meh' from me. Black has other reanimation options, and the tap ability makes it significantly weaker.

I'd say that the main draw for it is the creature-ness - it's significantly easier to recur a creature than most reanimation spells, so it's viable to reanimate multiple things with it. Can be recurred by Sun Titan, for example. Also provides a death trigger if you care about that, and the Mercenary creature type can also be of value if you're building that tribe.

They call him Mr Telegraph. Sheesh.

Mookie wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Doomed Necromancer gets a 'meh' from me. Black has other reanimation options, and the tap ability makes it significantly weaker.

I'd say that the main draw for it is the creature-ness - it's significantly easier to recur a creature than most reanimation spells, so it's viable to reanimate multiple things with it. Can be recurred by Sun Titan, for example. Also provides a death trigger if you care about that, and the Mercenary creature type can also be of value if you're building that tribe.

Seems to be a great way to "backup" your Whisper, Blood Liturgist too. Guess this is niche in and of itself.