[mtgnexus] Random Card of the Day - Samwise the Stouthearted

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hyalopterouslemur
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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
Rip dominates edh. Almost all decks are grave synergistic if not full on dependent these days..

I hate that it's countersynergy with replenish which makes the choice very difficult of what to run in enchantress decks.

Somewhat related I got tuned the hell up by a leyline of the void the other day playing ephara and that was frustrating. I did eventually bounce it and combo out but that brings up a point which makes these effects more difficult to use right

You really need to be able to either defend them or take advantage of them synergy wise or I would avoid them.. you're just a target for everyone if you don't have a gameplan to win while likely all three people are pissed st you
The word you're looking for is antagonism.

This blanks everything in reanimator, dredge, and aristocrats. Also Hermit Druid.
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pokken
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

And crucible and loam and and and and. It's seriously half the format.

Part of what I adore about ephara is she has a totally gy independent source of ca so I can just play around that stuff

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

I'm in the 'kill it with fire' camp for Rest in Peace - my decks are waaaay too graveyard-reliant. That said, it's undoubtedly an extremely powerful hate card... but simultaneously, I feel like it's totally fair - it's a symmetric effect, and it doesn't have any random splash damage to affect non-graveyard decks. It's also not that difficult to kill, and even exiles itself on death to prevent recursion. It can be somewhat difficult to slot into decks, but well worth the slot in the decks that can support it. Its presence in the format also allows for some interesting subgames related to deciding how much to dump into your graveyard.

Re: RIP vs more targeted grave hate... personally, I'm fine with both being in the format. RIP's symmetry is the main thing here - it also hits its owner, which makes it much more difficult to slot into decks. I don't mind it having a stronger effect as a result. It also doesn't cantrip, unlike Relic of Progenitus and most artifact grave hate, which makes it a higher opportunity cost to run it. Now, Dauthi Voidwalker on the other hand.....

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Post by umtiger » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
And crucible and loam and and and and. It's seriously half the format.

Part of what I adore about ephara is she has a totally gy independent source of ca so I can just play around that stuff
GY is half the format because being able to use your GY as a second hand/library is powerful...and people like doing powerful stuff.

Obviously, in terms of abuse
1.) Number one is having a legendary creature card tutored out, in an accessible+undisruptable zone for the entire game.
2.) but a close #2, is graveyard strategies

And wouldn't you know it, they normally go together. Yes, I don't like playing against Meren.

If Rest in Peace is devastating for you, no sympathies from me.

Wait until they make RiP into a 5/3 colorless artifact creature and then put it into a foil-only Secret Lair, then you might have something to rage about. But for now, RiP seems fair to me.

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duducrash
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Post by duducrash » 2 years ago

Damn the flavour text in this speciric rip got me goos

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3drinks
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Post by 3drinks » 2 years ago

Saturday, June 19th, 2021; Sol Ring|g05


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R{R/W} 87guide Burn
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RTorbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
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pokken
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

It's okay but not very good in edric

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TheGildedGoose
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 2 years ago

This is going to be a very dumb discussion.

The flagship card of EDH and emblematic of everything wrong with the banlist philosophy. The most controversial uncontroversial card in the format.

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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 2 years ago

Just ban it, so we don't have to talk about it anymore.
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Post by illakunsaa » 2 years ago

I think sol ring is better than mana crypt.

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Post by umtiger » 2 years ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
2 years ago
This is going to be a very dumb discussion.

The flagship card of EDH and emblematic of everything wrong with the banlist philosophy. The most controversial uncontroversial card in the format.
A mono-green deck without Sol Ring or an Edric deck without Sol Ring can operate faster than decks with Sol Ring. I'm glad that Sol Ring is not banned.
illakunsaa wrote:
2 years ago
I think sol ring is better than mana crypt.
And not just a little better, but meaningfully better.

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TheAmericanSpirit
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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 2 years ago

This card is to edh what pikachu is to pokemon. It's here to stay, for better or worse.
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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

I hear it's good, but I'm still not running it in Animar. Colorless mana is meh.

.....more seriously, it's an obviously busted card, but it's also been reprinted enough times that everyone has access to it. Some decks can certainly take more advantage of it than others, and some decks take advantage of the fact that your opponents are running it (coughthadacough), but the fact that it has an impact on the format is undeniable.

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Rumpy5897
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 2 years ago

I remember talking with one of the guys in the group, the one that was around the longest, about the format's early days. One of the stories was how he coughed up 10 quid for a Sol Ring prior to the original precons. Credit where credit is due, WotC have been good at keeping a number of ubiquitous staples accessible, and Sol Ring plus Command Tower are the poster children of that. The trick is for the card to never be too money, I guess :P

As for my stance on Sol Ring itself, I honestly don't mind it. Part of why I like EDH is the mix of obscenely powerful cards, the best stuff from throughout Magic's history, and unplayable chaff that has no home elsewhere. Sol Ring is a good manifestation of that, and it's nice for a deck to get a rocket blaster strapped to its back every now and then. There's no denying that the card is ridiculous, and that it creates a huge amount of variance, as shown by its banning in competitive 1v1 lists. But shouldn't we be allowed a bit of ridiculous, as long as we use it for something silly?

My relationship with Sol Ring is characterised by moderation. The group on the whole is not that keen on the card, and most people took most copies out of their decks. I don't put it in my new builds, but the old pet lists have had theirs for years, and also are primers. Feels kinda silly to try to describe how one can go about building Daxos and leave Sol Ring out. As a compromise, if I've already won a game recently, I engage a "Sol Ring buffer". This means I can only play it turn four onward. It's a sensible solution, as I get to retain lists I feel are tight enough to merit being described, and also prevent disproportionate stomp rates.
 
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Guardman
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Post by Guardman » 2 years ago

Sol Ring is powerful, but it isn't overly so. I have seen many EDH games were a person plays a turn 1 Sol Ring and they don't win the game. And it adds an element of cheap, accessible power to all decks.

And, honestly, credit where credit is due. This would probably be a completely different conversation if Sol Ring wasn't in every precon. But it is, which is great.

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Post by Moonlighter » 2 years ago

This is an interesting one. My son and I disagree on game design in general. He thinks Sol Ring is what it is, and everyone should use it all the time. I tend to think that anything that borders on auto-include shouldn't exist, as it makes a lot of decks 98+ the ring, or 96 + the ring, the rock, and the tower if multicolored. And in a singleton format, it seems that variability is one of the draws. So while within a deck, you've got a one-off, the variability between your decks goes down. I'm not trying to be a curmudgeon (a position my son accuses me of jokingly), but there does seem to be a bit of a loss to see these all the time. Plus the number of times it's led to something like a turn 3 Master of Cruelties in Alesha is... certainly something.
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tstorm823
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Post by tstorm823 » 2 years ago

Stop playing it. Your experience will improve, I guarantee it.
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hyalopterouslemur
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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 2 years ago

Even in green, this lets you get a t2 Skyshroud Claim It allows for explosive starts: Basic, this, diamond/Fellwar Stone/Signet/Mind Stone/Coldsteel Heart.

On balance, it keeps green's speed in check. It's sorta like free counterspells in Legacy.
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pokken
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
2 years ago
Green isn't even the second most powerful color in the format.
Depends on what you mean. In cedh it's really arguable. Were it not specifically for ad nauseam I think green is the second best color so it's very close. Mana dorks are so absurdly good there.

Outside of cedh green is the best color and it's not super close, with blue and black following. The only way any other color even comes close is with a raft of all the broken Mana rocks at the very top end of the noncedh side of the format.

(I would argue that absent demonic and vampiric tutor white is actually better than red or black personally -- and even then if you're not tutoring for combo pieces whites removal and sweepers and land ramp are severely underrated -- but I realize that's a bit of a hot take)

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TheGildedGoose
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 2 years ago

I guess we have radically different definitions of "powerful." Anecdotally, I see more blue-based decks doing far more broken things than green-based decks, and those blue decks are largely propped up by fast artifact mana.

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Sinis
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Post by Sinis » 2 years ago

Sol Ring is okay. I guess.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

For a long time I was on the "ban sol ring" train. These days...eh. Sol ring is as sol ring does. Any deck that was miserable with sol ring will still be miserable without it. There are cards like Expropriate that will practically never be fun when they resolve, but sol ring isn't one of those cards.

Sure, there are games that can get thrown off by a rapid sol ring start, but I don't think that variance is as bad as it seems. It's been pointed out that variance is a feature of the game, not a bug - in part because it gives newer players a chance to highroll, which is simply impossible in a game like chess, and it gives experienced players the chance to fight tooth and nail out from bad luck to prove their skill. The fact that any newbie with a precon can sometimes be an early threat and do powerful stuff on the early turns thanks to sol ring is often going to create positive, memorable experience for that player.

For 75% EDH, an early start is often not going to snowball super hard. I disagree with the CZ's """"""study"""""" that T1 sol ring has a negative winrate impact, but I don't think it's as huge as people might think it is. For decks more in the 8-10 range it can be a lot less balanced and create some non-games, but I think its net impact on the format is - at a minimum - less detrimental than other cards.
tstorm823 wrote:
2 years ago
Convince your opponents to Stop playing it. Your experience will improve, I guarantee it.
FTFY.
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tstorm823
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Post by tstorm823 » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
tstorm823 wrote:
2 years ago
Convince your opponents to Stop playing it. Your experience will improve, I guarantee it.
FTFY.
Do you know how you convince people to stop playing Sol Ring? You do it yourself and have more fun than them.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

tstorm823 wrote:
2 years ago
DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
tstorm823 wrote:
2 years ago
Convince your opponents to Stop playing it. Your experience will improve, I guarantee it.
FTFY.
Do you know how you convince people to stop playing Sol Ring? You do it yourself and have more fun than them.
If having fun was enough to convince people to run the same cards, everyone at my LGS would be playing Sorrow's Path by now.
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