[mtgnexus] Random Card of the Day - Samwise the Stouthearted

User avatar
Hawk
Slayer of Threads
Posts: 1166
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Post by Hawk » 3 years ago

onering wrote:
3 years ago
Its pretty mediocre. When its doing something well, its pumping a bunch of mana into one very cheap spell to replicate it a bunch, or letting you replicate a somewhat cheap spell a few times. Turning 1 lightning bolt into 7 lightning bolts is hilarious. 7 brainstorms, especially with effects that trigger on draws, is hilarious. Its a reasonable top ender for spell slinger decks that rely on very cheap spells, but its payoff is in stories rather than efficiency. Basically, its not very good but super fun, and when put into the right deck can be good enough to make it worth chasing the super fun.
I think this is the best take. This is a card I've never run in nine or ten years of EDH. I've had brief times were I've had various Grixis spellslinger decks or Izzet spellslinger decks where this was occasionally in the maybeboard but never in the final cut. I currently have a Jeskai spell-heavy deck that gave this a pass too. It was of questionable utility even in the halcyon days where everyone was slamming Wurmcoil Engine and racing to out-Maga, Traitor to Mortals each other and going nuts with big dumb splashy Elder Dragon beatdown decks. Now, with the embarrassment of riches that is modern Magic designing for EDH in every set, this card is inexcusably slow. But, it is very fun and very nostalgic, and if you want your win-more cards to be more cute and less crushing, this is an option.

User avatar
Mookie
Posts: 3461
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 47
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: the æthereal plane

Post by Mookie » 3 years ago

From a meta-thread perspective, I'll inquire as to whether people are more interested in discussing whether a card is good / bad in a vacuum... or if it's more interesting to discuss the niche scenarios where a bad card is appropriate to run, or a good card is inappropriate to run. There are a lot of cards that are relatively self-explanatory (ex: Hardened Scales is good in a deck built around +1/+1 counters, and bad in a deck that isn't), but there are a lot of cards that have interesting edge cases.

From my own perspective, I'll say that I've been appreciating the discussion of when Djinn Illuminatus is a playable card (ex: jank reanimator / djinn tribal / polymorph stuff), and I'm also interested in any experience that people have had actually running it. (not that there are a ton of instances of that though - I've heard of some people playing it around the time I started playing EDH, but even by then it had already been power creeped pretty badly)

From a power level perspective, I will agree that it's fairly underpowered, but that's a different story if you're already optimizing for jank. :D

User avatar
Hawk
Slayer of Threads
Posts: 1166
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Post by Hawk » 3 years ago

Mookie wrote:
3 years ago
From a meta-thread perspective, I'll inquire as to whether people are more interested in discussing whether a card is good / bad in a vacuum... or if it's more interesting to discuss the niche scenarios where a bad card is appropriate to run, or a good card is inappropriate to run. There are a lot of cards that are relatively self-explanatory (ex: Hardened Scales is good in a deck built around +1/+1 counters, and bad in a deck that isn't), but there are a lot of cards that have interesting edge cases.

From my own perspective, I'll say that I've been appreciating the discussion of when Djinn Illuminatus is a playable card (ex: jank reanimator / djinn tribal / polymorph stuff), and I'm also interested in any experience that people have had actually running it. (not that there are a ton of instances of that though - I've heard of some people playing it around the time I started playing EDH, but even by then it had already been power creeped pretty badly)

From a power level perspective, I will agree that it's fairly underpowered, but that's a different story if you're already optimizing for jank. :D
To me, it depends too much on the card.

Sometimes, the card is a known quantity so I just put my old man chair onto my lawn to tell stories (See: Crucible of Worlds). In other words, to use some language from the EDHREC article on lands and now mana rocks, it's fun to just talk about cool plays and epic moments with cards that are played a Just Right amount and everyone knows how good - or terrible - they are.

Sometimes, a card is controversially overplayed, and I discuss why you should run alternatives (Big Game Hunter a few weeks ago...or years ago? Pandemics and quarantines are weird). It's most fun, for me, to start picking apart and putting together impromptu top 10 lists for cards that seem Overplayed.

Sometimes, as with this, it's interesting to me to talk about why it's rarely played (because it is almost never better than just slamming Swarm Intelligence and/or Thousand-Year Storm and/or Double Vision and rarely would a deck want four copies of this effect...and if it really, really did said deck likely already has the fourth copy with a Commander or it could be looking at Mirari or Cast Through Time or Cloven Casting as alternatives), and then talk about where it would be good (i.e., you're durdling around with cantrips tribal, you are on-theme as "Izzet Watermark" Tribal or "Djinn Tribal"). It is less fun, but still engaging, to discuss the places where a Underplayed card might find a home.

And I sorta like that we talk together, but sometimes also past each other as we each tap into different veins of that discussion. It leads to a great thread to read, even if my contributions are small or nonexistent for the day.

User avatar
3drinks
Kaalia's Personal Liaison
Posts: 4832
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria

Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

Tuesday, June 30th, 2020; Mulldrifter



Mulldrifter appreciation day? I've often dreamt what it would mean if I had mulldrifter in Alesha and the amazingness of it. On a scale of 1 to Patrick Chapin, I'm probably around a 8.75 on the mulldrifter scale (does anyone even remember that meme, or have I gone too far into the realm of obscure magic memes, lost long ago to time.....?)

Anyway, Mulldrifter is good, and if you don't agree then it's a strong sign that you're not. 👀🤔

Modern
R{R/W} 87guide Burn
Commander
WRKellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
RTorbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
WBRKaalia HQ

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4540
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

Mulldrifter is...fine. It's so overplayed I rarely bring myself to include it. That and blink as an archetype stopped being interesting to me in like 2013.

Early on when I got back into magic and started playing EDH, someone said something like "in commander, it's all about etb value" and I thought to myself "nah, screw that, I just wanna play instants". And that's been pretty much my driving motivation up until now.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

User avatar
ZenN
Posts: 455
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Canada

Post by ZenN » 3 years ago

I see a lot of people run Cloudblazer over Mulldrifter these days, but don't see how the small amount of life could ever be valued higher than the ability to use it as a Divination that you can reanimate later. Outside of like a deck that specifically cares about life gain, I guess.
Commander
Golos, ETB Pilgrim - Value Town
Maelstrom Wanderer a.k.a. The Kool-Aid Man
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - OM NOM NOM
Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger + Tokens

User avatar
RxPhantom
Fully Vaxxed, Baby!
Posts: 1513
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Southern Maryland

Post by RxPhantom » 3 years ago

I only run it in Yarok. It's fine but I don't think it should be considered a staple.
Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 2/18/22 (Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty)

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6283
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 3 years ago

I like mulldrifter and I'll play it in places it really makes sense, but to me effects that say "etb/cast draw a card" are not all that interesting in commander outside of cantrips. I prefer to draw my cards through shenanigans. That's probably a fine distinction but I'm more likely to look for a commander with a weird rider, or draw my cards with combat damage or something than play vanilla draw spells most of the time

I'd rather stay on theme I guess.

Mulldrifter is in my elementals deck :) I don't think I even played it in Aminatou.

User avatar
Sinis
Posts: 2034
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Toronto, Canada

Post by Sinis » 3 years ago

3drinks wrote:
3 years ago
Tuesday, June 30th, 2020; Mulldrifter
I think at this point, I only run it in The Scarab God. It's a divination that's heavily improved by Eternalization.

In all seriousness, though, I think it's overplayed. If your deck has no flicker or reanimation options (and there are lots of decks that meet that description), you're better off running stuff like Thirst for Knowledge, Thirst for Meaning, Compulsive Research, etc. There's lots of instant speed draw at 3-4 that are not this card. It also can give a bit more juice with Guardian Project or Soul of the Harvest, but, I feel like these are edge cases.

I also don't think it's worth playing as a hedge against random Exhume effects when you can't leverage it on your own.

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4540
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

Sinis wrote:
3 years ago
I also don't think it's worth playing as a hedge against random Exhume effects when you can't leverage it on your own.
One man's hedge against exhume is another man's weakness to Dredge the Mire ...
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

User avatar
Sinis
Posts: 2034
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Toronto, Canada

Post by Sinis » 3 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
3 years ago
One man's hedge against exhume is another man's weakness to Dredge the Mire ...
I mean, Exhume isn't highly played, but other stuff is.

When I was really new to EDH, I played Mulldrifter a lot, because I had heard from people in game stores and online that it was 'good'. So, I wanted to play 'good' cards, even though my deck didn't really support Mulldrifter as a card draw option. I continued to think it was good for quite a while, because it sometimes got rezzed by Living Death or Twilight's Call, or the odd Pyrrhic Revival. Lots of people were playing lots of cards that had Exhume-like effects (Living Death is still played in some 9% of the decks on edhrec).

Cards like Dredge the Mire are very much in the minority when it comes to this sort of stuff.

boer0829
Posts: 32
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by boer0829 » 3 years ago

I only play Mulldrifter for his evoke cost. In my Riku deck it is 4 cards for 5 mana. Also since he is a creature he can be pretty abuseable.

User avatar
Hawk
Slayer of Threads
Posts: 1166
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Post by Hawk » 3 years ago

This is a card that's a lot like Vampire Nighthawk - a card many folks, self included, mindlessly played early on because "everyone knew" it was good value, but that has not aged with the format.

In the very beginning, this was all actual Elder Dragon nonsense and timmy battlecruisesrs created by the great Sheldon.

Then came the first WotC commander decks, and the format became all about EtB value. And the first blue-based face commanders included The Mimeoplasm and Riku of Two Reflections. And these value commanders saw Mulldrifter's synergy with their strategies, and they saw that it was very good.

And lo, did the players think that because Mulldrifter was good to those commanders, it could be good unto all blue-based commanders. And thus did Mulldrifter get put on every "top blue creature list" for the first years of Commander, and ballooned to 23,000 decks on EDHRECs, even though for every Roon of the Hidden Realm and Brago, King Eternal WotC printed there were dozens more commanders for whom Mulldrifter was nothing special.

But then, a new era started. Historians will dispute exactly when, but Commander started becoming all about streamlined efficiency. Commanders like Chulane, Teller of Tales made every creature a mulldrifter - and when everyone is a mulldrifter, mulldrifter is nothing.

And now, in the bizarre year of 2020, we have reached a point where what was once known to be simply the best blue creature has become way overplayed.
------
Like most folks, Mulldrifter was in every single one of my blue decks at the start of my journey in EDH whether it was good there (The Mimeoplasm, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician aggro landfall) or not (Zedruu the Greathearted, Experiment Kraj, various Grixis spellslinger decks). Now today, I have four blue commander decks and Mulldrifter is played in only one - Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow, and arguably it's actually pretty bad there. In theory, a 2/2 that likes being bounced, can be cast as a Divination, and looks like a "5" on top of my library could be good, but It's been way to slow in practice compared to Baleful Strix and Faerie Seer every time I've drawn it and I wouldn't be surprised if it got cut on my next pass over the deck. It is totally outclassed in Sai, Master Thopterist (who turns everyone into a mulldrifter eventually), Sevinne, the Chronoclasm (who generates near-infinite value off of Mystic Retrieval and Oona's Grace), and Vorel of the Hull Clade (who could use draw but doesn't want this). Oh, how the mighty have fallen...but then, how much we've learned from them.

(also, that FNM art is sick and I've never seen it before).

User avatar
folding_music
glitter pen on my mana crypt
Posts: 2236
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: they / them

Post by folding_music » 3 years ago

I have to admit I don't even play Mulldrifter in the deck with Abduction, False Demise, Puppet Master and Portal of Sanctuary in it. lol. I think on one level I resent it for its never-ending presence in competitive reports for years and years despite it being a boring card.

User avatar
Mookie
Posts: 3461
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 47
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: the æthereal plane

Post by Mookie » 3 years ago

Mulldrifter has held up pretty well over time, but it doesn't necessarily go in every deck - Divination isn't a playable card, and paying two mana extra for a Wind Drake isn't that impressive in a vacuum. Still, it's not hard to make Mulldrifter overperform - if you have synergies with elementals, ETB effects, evoke / death triggers, or flying creatures, it's worth consideration. On the other hand, if those things aren't relevant to you, there are other, more efficient card draw options available.

As for my own decks... I'm running Mulldrifter in Animar (because it's a creature with a low color weight) and Brago (because it's an ETB effect). I've contemplated running it in Thada, but it currently doesn't make the cut - the 2/2 body is too small to be relevant, even if I do have some equipment to throw on it. No interest running it in Sharuum / Mizzix / Kess, since it isn't an artifact / instant / sorcery.

umtiger
Posts: 394
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by umtiger » 3 years ago

There's definitely some abuses to be made with Mulldrifter's convoke cost. I also loved both Mulldrifter and Shriekmaw when I had Horde of Notions built.
Mookie wrote:
3 years ago
As for my own decks... I'm running Mulldrifter in Animar (because it's a creature with a low color weight) and Brago (because it's an ETB effect). I've contemplated running it in Thada, but it currently doesn't make the cut - the 2/2 body is too small to be relevant, even if I do have some equipment to throw on it. No interest running it in Sharuum / Mizzix / Kess, since it isn't an artifact / instant / sorcery.
Do you also run Cloudblazer in your Brago? I have a lot of incidental life loss in my Brago deck (Ancient Tomb, Hall of the Bandit Lord, 8 fetchlands) and the +2 life per blink is huge. And since I kind of need it to stay in play, the convoke cost for Mulldrifter isn't important for me.

User avatar
Hawk
Slayer of Threads
Posts: 1166
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Post by Hawk » 3 years ago

We keep talking about how outclassed this is, but it got me thinking - what are Blue's actual best/most played draw spells? I took a look at Scryfall, sorted by EDHREC popularity, and the most played cards that dig more than 2 cards deep (whether they're actual card advantage or not...) are...

Obviously there is some subjectivity there - I included Bident and Sphinx and Archivist as well as the "1 CMC cantrip draw spells" that have a scry/rearrange attached, but did not include planeswalkers like Narset, Parter of Veils and didn't include pure cantrips like Gitaxian Probe. I also made a judgment call that many folks are running Arcanis purely to draw, but fewer folks are running Nezahal, Primal Tide or Baral, Chief of Compliance as a "draw spell". Also, due to the way I worded the search, I didn't analyze where Dig Through Time or Impulse fall compared to these things. Nevertheless, what's interesting to me is that unlike in the other colors, where you run the draw you can, if Blue's involved you run the draw that synergizes most. Are you a Fliers deck, a creature-heavy deck, a token deck? You probably want Bident of Thassa and Mulldrifter.

I also find it interesting that despite being name-checked in thread as "better than Drifter", Compulsive Research, Thirst for Knowledge, and Thirst for Meaning are not present in the top 20, nor are my favorite Inspiration with upside Glimmer of Genius, Hieroglyphic Illumination, or Chemister's Insight. If you're curious, Insight and Thirst for Knowledge are in the top 30 or so but you have to go deeeeeppp down the list to find folks running Research, Glimmer, or Illumination. As I look at it I wonder how much of that is anchoring, and how much of it is that maybe Drifter's flexibility and versatility really do make it better in concert with a deck and meta, even though Compulsive is probably better in a vacuum?

User avatar
Mookie
Posts: 3461
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 47
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: the æthereal plane

Post by Mookie » 3 years ago

umtiger wrote:
3 years ago
Do you also run Cloudblazer in your Brago? I have a lot of incidental life loss in my Brago deck (Ancient Tomb, Hall of the Bandit Lord, 8 fetchlands) and the +2 life per blink is huge. And since I kind of need it to stay in play, the convoke cost for Mulldrifter isn't important for me.
I do, yes. Along with a bunch of other ETB draw effects - my build of Brago is tailored for maximum durdle, and this isn't an effect I mind having multiples of. I don't have any incidental life loss (mostly due to budget reasons), but I do appreciate having a bit of incidental life gain to buffer my life total over a longer game.
Hawk wrote:
3 years ago
I also find it interesting that despite being name-checked in thread as "better than Drifter", Compulsive Research, Thirst for Knowledge, and Thirst for Meaning are not present in the top 20, nor are my favorite Inspiration with upside Glimmer of Genius, Hieroglyphic Illumination, or Chemister's Insight. If you're curious, Insight and Thirst for Knowledge are in the top 30 or so but you have to go deeeeeppp down the list to find folks running Research, Glimmer, or Illumination. As I look at it I wonder how much of that is anchoring, and how much of it is that maybe Drifter's flexibility and versatility really do make it better in concert with a deck and meta, even though Compulsive is probably better in a vacuum?
I suspect that may be partially due to the format rewarding specialization. Inspiration / Glimmer of Genius / Compulsive Research are incredibly generic cards - you can slot them in any deck, and they'll function well enough, but it's rare for them to hit above their weight. On the other hand, Mulldrifter working with blink effects, Fact or Fiction fueling graveyards, and Frantic Search fueling storm nonsense all allow those cards to have much more impactful best-case scenarios. Although, honestly, I think that Mulldrifter is better than the Inspiration effects in a vacuum anyway - the 2/2 flier is worth an extra mana to me, even if it only ends up chump blocking.

User avatar
FoxOfWar
Posts: 84
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: she / her

Post by FoxOfWar » 3 years ago

I think I am only playing Mulldrifter anymore in my Omnath(3.0) because elemental and ETB, anymore.

I do like the card a lot though, but it wants some combination of beneficial circumstances to pull above.
36 decks or so...
Show
Hide
Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile - Ghosty Blinky Anafenza - Nezahal - Big, Blue and HERE! - Gonti Can Afford It - Kazuul, Tyrant of Chandras - Polukranos, More Mana - Azor Takes Flight - A3OS System - Vona Life Pain - Angel With a Whip and Her Pet Fox - Tolsimir Wolf Crusade - Dragonlord Steal & Copy - Arjun, the Mad Flame - Tatyova's Mad Lands - Zegana's Simic - Chainer Does the Value Dance - Polukranos, Unchained - Running Thromok - Sydri's Loco-Inspiraion - Zedruu the Furyhearted - Estrid Land Animation - A Case of Tariel's Persistent F*ckery - Tail of the AristoCat Humanitarian - Karador, Tomb Operator - Tayam Re-Curses - Jeleva... does... things - Sidisi, Death is Served - Omnath, Blink and You're Missing - The Negatiweaver - Breya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs - Ishai and Reyhan Dicepile - Kynaios and Tiro Landfall Impersonations - Tana and Ravos' Regal Gatekeeping - Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation - General Tazri's Utterly Amazing Allies

User avatar
3drinks
Kaalia's Personal Liaison
Posts: 4832
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria

Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

Wednesday, July 1st, 2020; the Tarkir Commands!



We all love our versatility in "command" effects, how are they when they come from a dragon? I for one absolutely adore kolaghan's sheer b.v destructive prowess, to the surprise of absolutely no one. And i suspect silumgar's to be the least desired by far, but it's okay because he himself is much more powerful.

Modern
R{R/W} 87guide Burn
Commander
WRKellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
RTorbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
WBRKaalia HQ

BounceBurnBuff
Posts: 66
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by BounceBurnBuff » 3 years ago

3drinks wrote:
3 years ago
And i suspect silumgar's to be the least desired by far, but it's okay because he himself is much more powerful.
That is odd because its the only one I would remotely consider playable in EDH, and even then just barely over better modal spells like Charms.

The modes on the feel lacklustre. Four mana to counter a creature a draw a card? Or get back a 2 drop and draw a card? How about Mystic Confluence to counter a spell and draw 2 instead? Dromoka's and Atarka seem the worst by far, Atarka's poor Growth Spiral impression putting it slightly ahead.

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4540
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

Not overly excited about any of them tbh.

dromoka's has 2 main modes: fight and sac enchantment. That makes it pretty situational in my book, but some decks can use it if they expect to have a good fight target.

kolaghan's probably has the most useful modes relative to the cost. artifact is good, 2 damage is situationally powerful, raise dead is consistently good for most decks, discard is a mediocre fallback mode, or a good fallback mode in the 1v1 game. A decent versatile interaction piece for a RB deck.

atarka's really has no good modes imo. 3 damage is so minimal here, gain life is very situational, pump is pretty minor. the ramp mode kinda looks the best, but it puts you down a card compared to rampant growth. Can't really imagine using it tbh. Probably the only one I would probably never play.

ojutai's really suffers compared to cryptic command. Gain 4 sucks. The reanimate mode is ok if you have good targets, but without consistent targets to use that mode, you're just overpaying for Exclude. Probably second worst for that reason.

silumgar's is the most powerful, but 5 is a lot to keep up for a counterspell. But it is very versatile. I'd at least consider it for any UB deck planning to keep lands up, but not any proactive deck that wants to use as much mana as possible on their own turn.

Overall rank:

Kolaghan
Silumgar
Dromoka
Ojutai
Atarka
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

User avatar
not-a-cube
Posts: 88
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Belgium

Post by not-a-cube » 3 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
3 years ago
Overall rank:

Kolaghan
Silumgar
Dromoka
Ojutai
Atarka
I agree with this.

I play Kolaghan's in one of my decks and it hasn't been a dead card so far.
I have played Silumgar's in a grixis deck before, where it was a blow-out once, but eventually got cut when i got better cards.
The others have never made the cut, so I don't know exactly how good they are, but the reason they haven't made the cut is because i suspect them to be bad.
EDH Decks:
Queen Marchesa
Chainer, Dementia Master
Will Kenrith
Bruna, the fading light

Wallycaine
Posts: 764
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Wallycaine » 3 years ago

Probably agreed overall with Dirk's assessments, though I might quibble over Silumgar and Dromoka's rankings. It's hard to feel like any of the other modes (outside "destroy target planeswalker", which is going to be rare to have targets for) on Silumgar warrant the +3 mana on negate, especially when stuff like Cryptic Command and Mystic Confluence exist. I think it's still better than Ojutai, but I think Dromoka's slightly edges it out.

On the flip side, I think the cheapness and instant speed of Dromoka is a huge part of what makes it valuable. It definitely needs to be a deck where you expect to have viable fight targets, but once you have that, it's at worst an instant speed Hunt the Weak, certainly not a card normally run, but at 2 mana cheaper and instant speed, at least worth considering. And when you can instead hit an enchantment or counter a Blasphemous Act... well, that's even better.

User avatar
motleyslayer
Posts: 1127
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Contact:

Post by motleyslayer » 3 years ago

I really like Silumgar's Command in UB decks, even if it is probably worse than Cryptic Command . I really like the utility it has. Maybe it's just super strong in the group I usually play in. While I don't see it in my group, I have to agree Dromoka's Command probably has the most utility. I don't really have experience with Kolaghan's Command in commander but the return a creature to hand mode seems interesting for the cost and I guess there can be annoying artifacts in the format

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Commander”