[mtgnexus] Random Card of the Day - Samwise the Stouthearted

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3drinks
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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

Serenade wrote:
3 years ago
Were mono artifacts' activated abilities only to be activated during upkeeps? Did not know that. Also, that second ability only removes one during your upkeep (while the original wording sounds like it would happen each upkeep). Neat, weird card.
No, it's a timing restriction on this card specifically. Mono-artifacts were also seen on, say, Tawnos's Coffin and early Icy Manipulators.


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Post by Myllior » 3 years ago

Serenade wrote:
3 years ago
Were mono artifacts' activated abilities only to be activated during upkeeps
Mono artifacts were those whose activated abilities required tapping the artifact as part of the cost. A quick Google search shows that the first Tap symbol (an inclined T) wasn't introduced until Revised. Before this*, cards either explicitly said they needed to be tapped for activated abilities or were covered by rules for their card type (I.e. mono artifacts). I don't know for certain why mono artifacts were given another card type, rather than explicitly saying they needed to be tapped, but I'd guess it was because some of them were very wordy and they needed the text box real estate freed up a little.
*(Possibly after this too; I don't know when Mono Artifact was retired).

As for Cyclopean Tomb, it seems way too slow and narrow. I'd expect to see cards like Contamination a thousand times before I ever see Tomb in the wild.
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Post by Serenade » 3 years ago

I got so hung up on the latter upkeep wording that I missed the first upkeep wording. Still not sure why "each upkeep" became "each of your upkeeps," though.
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Post by Sinis » 3 years ago

Serenade wrote:
3 years ago
Probably too slow as repeatable disruption. Expedition Map for Strip Mine/Wasteland/Urborg instead to solve problem lands/enable swamp-hate. BUT if you don't want to lose a land or give your opponents lots of black mana access, this alternative exists.
I think land transformation is actually kind of a good way of 'destroying' problematic lands. Many decks play crucible/Ramunap excavator or even stuff like Petrified Field / Grim Discovery. I remember when I first started playing, my black deck du jour always had many ways of recurring Cabal Coffers, and the one of the only (relatively) common pieces of tech to deal with it was Vedalken Plotter.
Nevermind, this is $100.
While this hasn't stopped me in the past, it will for this card. It's on the edge of too janky for price.

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

Sunday, August 2nd, 2020; Gaea's Revenge



At one point I wished this was legendary because I could beat face with it super quick. But now I can get haste in Surrak, the Hunt Caller so...does this card have a purpose?

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Post by Mookie » 3 years ago

I appear to have missed it, so: Cyclopean Tomb looks like a needlessly complicated Quicksilver Fountain. Might be worth running if you have swampwalk synergies or really want to deal with problematic lands, but Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Strip Mine do it way better.

On to Gaea's Revenge. I must say that I'm not particularly a fan. It's a reasonable beater, and there aren't a ton of green fatties with haste.... but green has so many options for beaters that I feel like you can do better. Crucially, it doesn't have any evasion - not even trample. It does have some immediate board impact due to haste, and it is hard to kill, but I'm still not impressed.

The first comparison I can think of it Mistcutter Hydra - less power for its cost and slightly weaker protective attributes, but it also scales better and has some evasion. Also works with various +1/+1 counter synergies. Alternatively, Archetype of Endurance gives your entire team hexproof, or End-Raze Forerunners can function as a hasty beater with upside.

I'll also call out is that Gaea's Revenge doesn't work with equipment, which is somewhat interesting.

As for decks that would want it... maybe a Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma beatdown deck? Really becomes a question of how valuable haste is for the deck.

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Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

It could be a role player in a mono green enchantress deck focused around auras maybe? Slap a Rancor and Blanchwood Armor on it or some nonsense like that?
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Post by RxPhantom » 3 years ago

Mookie wrote:
3 years ago
As for decks that would want it... maybe a Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma beatdown deck? Really becomes a question of how valuable haste is for the deck.
I run a Goreclaw deck and I didn't want Gaea's Revenge. As you said, we have Surrak, the Hunt Caller and there are a ton of better options for effective fatties. It was on the maybe list when I first started building it, but never made it into the deck.
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Post by Sinis » 3 years ago

3drinks wrote:
3 years ago
Sunday, August 2nd, 2020; Gaea's Revenge
I like this card. The protective ability on it is pretty wild; it's a stone's throw from shroud.

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

Monday, July 3rd, 2020; Kuldotha Forgemaster



Often the one card combo while requiring a substantial commitment to artifacts allegedly keeps it "fair", how often have you seen Forgemaster "ruin games"?

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Post by Mookie » 3 years ago

I ran Kuldotha Forgemaster for a bit in Sharuum, but ultimately cut it - required too much investment for not enough payoff. In my case, I didn't really have any token production or expendable artifacts, while the biggest thing I had to fetch was Sphinx of the Steel Wind (and the best target was probably Salvaging Station). As a result, it drew a lot of hate due to having a pretty nasty reputation. Turns out people are scared of the possibility of a free Blightsteel Colossus or Darksteel Forge. One of my key ethos is 'if you're playing fair, you're playing wrong', and in this case I was running Forgemaster way too fairly.

On the other hand, if you do happen to be running the necessary support for it, Tinker is an incredibly powerful effect. Seems like an easy include in Breya, Etherium Shaper (shakes fist), but could also be sweet if you're running token production from Smothering Tithe or Revel in Riches. Similarly, it goes up in value when you're running scarier topend - Blightsteel and Forge are two options, but build-arounds like Bolas's Citadel, Panharmonicon, and Aetherflux Reservoir can also be worth fetching. At least Paradox Engine is banned....

As for downsides... needing to tap to activate is a pretty steep downside - unless you have Lightning Greaves available, your opponents will get a turn to kill Forgemaster first, or otherwise prepare for whatever you fetch. Sacrificing three artifacts is also a huge ask, since you need to make sure that what you're fetching is worth it. Again, if your opponents immediately blow up whatever you fetch, that's a massive tempo loss.

Sidenote: I've wanted to get an alter of it with a picture of a frog for ages. Why? Because 'Kuldotha Frogmaster' sounds adorable.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 3 years ago

KFM is best friends with Clock of omens. 6 spare artifacts and those two is an express train to Combo City, get off at any junction you like.
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Post by Sinis » 3 years ago

3drinks wrote:
3 years ago
Monday, July 3rd, 2020; Kuldotha Forgemaster

Often the one card combo while requiring a substantial commitment to artifacts allegedly keeps it "fair", how often have you seen Forgemaster "ruin games"?
It's rare for KFM to ruin games in my group because we don't play it very often, and we don't play those kinds of games; the worst someone in my group will search for is Darksteel Forge.

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Post by Hawk » 3 years ago

This was a cornerstone of Karn, and it's a huge deal in a colorless deck that lack reliable tutoring/draw engines.

But, the cost is really steep. 5 mana is a lot. Tapping is a major cost, as it means you need Haste enablers OR need this thing to live a whole round around the table. And saccing at least two other artifacts is also pretty steep even in a dedicated artifact deck. I do not run it in Daretti, Scrap Savant or Sai, Master Thopterist as a result. Many colored decks are going to have some other options that are more powerful and consistent for artifact shenanigans and/or cheating mana costs.

Basically, I think it is rare to have a deck that has both multiple exciting 7+ drops to tutor onto the table at will AND can generate enough cheap fodder to make tutoring for it worth while because you'll still have a board to abuse with them. Tutoring Darksteel Forge or Akroma's Memorial or Mycosynth Golem for instance is worthless if you now have 0-1 artifacts on the table to do it. That will be true of many Mono-Brown decks especially ones built around Karn or an Eldrazi, but it won't be every day that it is true of of an artifact theme deck. Still, if you do have a few of those big targets, it is worth examining if you can support this. Saccing at instant speed in response to blocks or removal is really good. I just think it's not an auto-include like I anticipated it being on release.

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

Tuesday, August 4th, 2020; The Paladins



A bit of an obscure cycle, but hey it's one w got the better end of.
Last edited by 3drinks 3 years ago, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Treamayne » 3 years ago

IIRC, I believe it is called a mirror when the connected cards are only in two colors and match each other (e.g. White Knight/Black Knight)

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Even though I was playing during US, I don't recall any defined reason why the West and East paladins got shafted with target creature instead of target permanent, but it was a long time ago.

Definitely a throw back to when color hosers could be good in the sideboard. Eastern Paladin can do weird things in Golgari with things like Permeating Mass. Otherwise, these really just have the same problems as any color hoser in this format - a chance to be irrelevant if the table has no targets.
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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

Treamayne wrote:
3 years ago
Even though I was playing during US, I don't recall any defined reason why the West and East paladins got shafted with target creature instead of target permanent, but it was a long time ago.

Definitely a throw back to when color hosers could be good in the sideboard. Eastern Paladin can do weird things in Golgari with things like Permeating Mass. Otherwise, these really just have the same problems as any color hoser in this format - a chance to be irrelevant if the table has no targets.
Probably to prevent them from hitting enchantments, which was a cardinal rule then.

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Post by onering » 3 years ago

I feel like "fun with colors" is an archetype that still needs more support to be worth it, but I see a place for them there, combined with Painter's Servant and Urza Blind Seer, etc. Of course, Northern and Southern are better than Eastern and Western, and Northern additionally benefits from black washing effects, which are more numerous than white, green, or red washing effects, and could also play a role in some absurd anti black deck that attempts to leverage cards that black wash or turn lands into swamps to take advantage of some of the rather powerful anti black and anti swamp effects. But these are goofy decks that aren't viable. Pentarch though has potential. Its the only one that is always on, and can deal with any colored permanent you need it to and then any subsequent permanent that shares a color. The problem is of course that its slow. 5 mana and you still have to pay 2 and wait a turn without haste. Flanking is often irrelevant but at least it can attack into saproling swarms with impunity. Even though its the only one that can actually slot into any deck and be active in any meta, its just not good enough, and wasn't impactful enough even during the battlecruiser era.

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Post by Serenade » 3 years ago

I started playing in Urza's/Masques block and opened a Western Paladin early. Carl Critchlow's artwork adds an unmatched majesty and gravity to our fantasy world of MTG.
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Post by Sinis » 3 years ago

3drinks wrote:
3 years ago
Tuesday, August 4th, 2020; The Paladins
Back when I first started playing, Northern Paladin|3ED was pretty wild (the others hadn't been printed yet). Some of the bugbears we'd face were black (think Lord of the Pit|3ED, Demonic Hordes, Sengir Vampire|3ED).

He couldn't kill Ihsan's Shade|HML, though. Nothing could.

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Post by Wallycaine » 3 years ago

3drinks wrote:
3 years ago
Treamayne wrote:
3 years ago
Even though I was playing during US, I don't recall any defined reason why the West and East paladins got shafted with target creature instead of target permanent, but it was a long time ago.

Definitely a throw back to when color hosers could be good in the sideboard. Eastern Paladin can do weird things in Golgari with things like Permeating Mass. Otherwise, these really just have the same problems as any color hoser in this format - a chance to be irrelevant if the table has no targets.
Probably to prevent them from hitting enchantments, which was a cardinal rule then.
Even today, black isn't allowed to hit target enchantments, and still isn't allowed to kill artifacts at all, so they'd still need to have the "creature" restriction on them.

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Post by Hawk » 3 years ago

I think Pentarch Paladin has to be evaluated separately. The others are actual mirrors of each other, and have the design that asks the question "is a powerful activated ability on a modest Hill Giant body worth the opportunity cost of being offline in some games?". Pentarch instead asks - "is the power to always be on worth the extremely heavy WWW commitment on an even-weaker-for-its-CMC body?"

I remember seeing Pentarch Paladin show up in a few early decks. In particular, right after Knight Exemplar was released I saw this guy both in casual 60-card decks as a curve topper for Knight Tribal and as the "best finisher" for a very silly Tivadar of Thorn Commander deck and a slightly more reasonable Rafiq of the Many Exalted Knights deck. He's obviously very good...but very slow, and marginal outside of mono-white theme decks like "White Knights" (which now has much better commanders and is also more likely to dip Black or Red or both, none of which was a real option in 2011). He's definitely the most playable of the posse though.

The white ones of the actual cycle have a real advantage in blowing up Artifacts, Enchantments, and now even Planeswalkers...but I still wouldn't play them outright, not even in Human and/or Knight Tribal, not even in monowhite. Maybe someday we'll get a really, really good UWx color change Commander?

The black ones are even worse. I'd probably consider them if they could hit Enchantments and Planeswalkers too, but creature only just makes these guys really really inefficient compared to more immediate EtB value from the likes of Ravenous Chupacabra and Noxious Gearhulk or more reliable and powerful perpetual nuking from Avatar of Woe (itself a card I rarely play anymore but which has always outclassed it as a battlecruiser top-end card).

The art is sick though - I dig it all. For the most part the originals are better, but the reprint art isn't awful either.

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Post by Sinis » 3 years ago

Hawk wrote:
3 years ago
I think Pentarch Paladin has to be evaluated separately. The others are actual mirrors of each other, and have the design that asks the question "is a powerful activated ability on a modest Hill Giant body worth the opportunity cost of being offline in some games?". Pentarch instead asks - "is the power to always be on worth the extremely heavy commitment on an even-weaker-for-its-CMC body?"

I remember seeing Pentarch Paladin show up in a few early decks. In particular, right after Knight Exemplar was released I saw this guy both in casual 60-card decks as a curve topper for Knight Tribal and as the "best finisher" for a very silly Tivadar of Thorn Commander deck and a slightly more reasonable Rafiq of the Many Exalted Knights deck. He's obviously very good...but very slow, and marginal outside of mono-white theme decks like "White Knights" (which now has much better commanders and is also more likely to dip Black or Red or both, none of which was a real option in 2011). He's definitely the most playable of the posse though.
I think this is right on the nose.

Pentarch Paladin isn't just a Hill Giant, though; it has Flanking which makes it roughly a 4/4 on the attack. Which makes him perhaps also equivalent to something like Durkwood Boars|4ED. That said, I think the ability to pick his colour is always going to make him relevant. Since he has to tap (and that generally obviates flanking, unless you have some vigilance enabler), maybe you're right in that he's a Hill Giant. Anyway, that white investment isn't necessarily a bad thing; bicolour decks with decent mana bases will be able to cast him just fine, and it can power up Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx.

Of course, I think the really cool hoser knights are Order of the Sacred Torch|ICE and Stromgald Cabal|ICE. A topic for another day, I hope.

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Post by Mookie » 3 years ago

I considered Pentarch Paladin when building Samut (tap ability tribal) - being able to blow things up repeatedly seems pretty potent. Unfortunately, the color commitment is a bit too steep for my taste. I would like to give it a shot someday though.

As for the other ones... I'm not really a fan of removal that conditional - it's very easy for there to be no creatures of the appropriate color to blow up. May be worth considering if you have some way to manipulate colors, I suppose. The white paladins have the significant upside of being able to hit any permanent (and not just creatures), which make them a strong answer to problematic enchantments. I don't think I would ever run the black ones though - black already has too many good removal options, and I would consider these paladins to be outclassed by cards like Ravenous Chupacabra and Visara the Dreadful.

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

Sinis wrote:
3 years ago
3drinks wrote:
3 years ago
Tuesday, August 4th, 2020; The Paladins
Back when I first started playing, Northern Paladin|3ED was pretty wild (the others hadn't been printed yet). Some of the bugbears we'd face were black (think Lord of the Pit|3ED, Demonic Hordes, Sengir Vampire|3ED).

He couldn't kill Ihsan's Shade|HML, though. Nothing could.
I never struggled with the shade, because I always hid behind Royal Assassin|3ed. But then everything became a battle of forcing them to activate their assassin first.

...I do, however, have fond memories of getting clobbered by White Knight|leb though. Eek talk about git rekt.

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