[mtgnexus] Random Card of the Day - Samwise the Stouthearted

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Post by Sinis » 4 years ago

Sharpened wrote:
4 years ago
but most people plan to deal with untargetable threats with sweepers,
Edict effects are extremely popular in my group.

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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 4 years ago

Niche, but not bad. With lands that tap for c, the question is how many colors you have, and your range of the number of mana symbols of a given color (e.g., an ultimatum is way out), along with what you're doing otherwise.

Sadly, it's only creatures. I would love to use this in combination with Aura Shards.
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Post by PrimevalCommander » 4 years ago

I am going to try this out in Yawgmoth, Thran Physician because I am making it heavy on spot removal. Plus I want to be able to target big things with Yawgmoth to shrink them down. After the big mana lands and a few sac lands, I decided to try this in a flex slot. I toned down the number of sweepers and will allow for more instant speed manipulation. Plus Yawgmoth's ability should help control the board without wiping my own stuff too often.

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Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

Saturday, February 22nd, 2020; Junk Diver and similar enough, Myr Retriever & Workshop Assistant.

Last edited by 3drinks 4 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Toshi » 4 years ago

3drinks wrote:
4 years ago
I'm a big fan of these type of effects. Don't forget about Workshop Assistant and the absolutely busted, when built around it, Scrap Trawler.
As someone who's always pretty curve-centric, i'd pick Myr Retriever first. I love looping it in my Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle deck with a artifact, a sac outlet and preferably a draw engine.
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Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

We're gonna leave scrap trawler out since that is decidedly different for sure. I'll add the assistant though since it's a functional replicant of the cards in question though.

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Post by Outcryqq » 4 years ago

I like these cards. I like incentivizing my opponents to kill them by giving them swords, though it's obviously stronger to sacrifice them.

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Post by schweinefett » 4 years ago

NoNeedToBragoBoutIt wrote:
4 years ago
3drinks wrote:
4 years ago
I'm a big fan of these type of effects. Don't forget about Workshop Assistant and the absolutely busted, when built around it, Scrap Trawler.
As someone who's always pretty curve-centric, i'd pick Myr Retriever first. I love looping it in my Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle deck with a artifact, a sac outlet and preferably a draw engine.
It's amazing in that deck. That was my first mono white combo deck in edh. It's amazing how great some random seeming value card can really get broken in some decks.

Anyways, I've never been unhappy to see either at any point of the game! With the possible exception of straight after a grave wipe.

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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 4 years ago

I like these. The obvious best is Myr Retriever, but I do like Junk Diver as a swordbearer. (Though of course, I also like using them with Kuldotha Forgemaster.) To be candid, Workshop Assistant is the weakest. Basically it can survive a Wave of Reckoning because we all know how much I like these guys surviving. And of course, Sun Titan, Reveillark, etc., you know this by now.
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Post by Hermes_ » 4 years ago

I guess flying pushes it into a rare?
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Post by lyonhaert » 4 years ago

Hermes_ wrote:
4 years ago
I guess flying pushes it into a rare?
Probably just the gold color on the critter itself.
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Post by KMA_Again » 4 years ago

The flying makes Diver a strong blocker when opponents don't want to give you something, yet gives you the choice to sac it anyways when you have an outlet. I am fond of it for holding off a lot of offenses while preparing my boardstate further.

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Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

Sunday, February 23rd, 2020; must be a dance party cause it takes two to tango! That's right, today's cards are the Tango Lands from BFZ!


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Post by Rumpy5897 » 4 years ago

Huge fan of these, fantastic supplement to shocks in a reasonable mana base. Having land types is good for solid ramp setups, responding to your Farseeks and fetches. The variable CIPT clause is nice, and the land can be sequenced around basics if needed or possible. I might be a bit biased, as so far the only place I've gotten to run them is a Naya shell (Cultivate single-handedly turns subsequent instances of these into OG duals). Please print the enemy ones.
 
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Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

In terms of how much I hate these, they're about on par with most fascist dictators.

Basics are not very good in multicolor unless you have some specific reason to want them, in which case you're probably mono-colored (BM, gauntlets, coffers, etc). The only real reason to run any basics at all is for land ramp and insurance against nonbasic hate. If you're in 3 colors, you should only have a couple of each basic, so your odds of these entering untapped is pretty low. Even in the best case, it's only untapped as your 3rd land, i.e. an inverse fastland, i.e. crap. Turns 1-3 is when entering untapped is the most important.

As a budget land these are passable-ish, but there are a lot of better options. If you're budget the land types matter a lot less anyway, and if you're not budget then there are much better options.

The only thing I like about these is that, if you have a fetchland and a turn where you have an extra mana, you can pull it out of your deck and then get a little bump of endorphins by thinking "oh thank Christ I can't topdeck that terrible land later".
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Post by boer0829 » 4 years ago

Fetchable duallands are fetchable. Great way to fix colors in a budget way

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Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

Almost on the daily I see people proclaiming that basic lands aren't good enough and should be minimized. And as a R player at heart, laughs in blood moon. Basic lands are powerful, folks. They come in untapped and provide coloured mana unconditionally. What's more, they even have land types and can be fetched! Add onto it, that I have protection from wasteland with them, and the upside is insane.

I'm not saying play 5c with only basic lands, that's absurd. But I will say people play way, way too many nonbasics that they think they can't build without when the vast majority of the time, you don't. Fetchlands, duals, basics and a strip mine effect or two with sometimes a big mana land and you're good.

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Post by Toshi » 4 years ago

3drinks wrote:
4 years ago
I'm a big fan of them!
They are no-brainers in 2C, easy to set up in 3C with g and propably even playable in budget 4C and 5C.
As with the BBD duals and cycling lands i'd love to see an enemy cycle printed!
3drinks wrote:
4 years ago
Almost on the daily I see people proclaiming that basic lands aren't good enough and should be minimized. [...] Basic lands are powerful, folks. They come in untapped and provide coloured mana unconditionally.
I couldn't agree more!
Even outside of metas with Blood Moon, Back to Basics and comparable effects, Basics don't get enough credit and the opportunity cost of exclusively c-producing and/or cipt lands is underestimated way too often.
Even in mono and 2C decks adding mana of color and entering untapped can be crucial. My Talrand, Sky Summoner, Zada, Hedron Grinder, Ezuri, Renegade Leader and Edric, Spymaster of Trest lists would all be significantly worse, if their mana bases would be less "colorful" and hence less reliable.

On top of that; Bubbling Muck, Cabal Coffers, Cabal Stronghold, Crypt Ghast, Emeria, the Sky Ruin, Extraplanar Lens, Gauntlet of Might, Gauntlet of Power, High Tide, Mutilate, Nirkana Revenant, Nissa, Worldwaker, Patron of the Orochi, Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle and so many others are reason enough to run more than a homoepathic dose of basics.

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Post by ilovesaprolings » 4 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
4 years ago
If you're in 3 colors, you should only have a couple of each basic
meta dependant
DirkGently wrote:
4 years ago
1-3 is when entering untapped is the most important.
super meta dependant

Honestly i don't run them because the cycle isn't complete and that triggers my land OCD

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Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

3drinks wrote:
4 years ago
Almost on the daily I see people proclaiming that basic lands aren't good enough and should be minimized. And as a R player at heart, laughs in blood moon. Basic lands are powerful, folks. They come in untapped and provide coloured mana unconditionally. What's more, they even have land types and can be fetched! Add onto it, that I have protection from wasteland with them, and the upside is insane.

I'm not saying play 5c with only basic lands, that's absurd. But I will say people play way, way too many nonbasics that they think they can't build without when the vast majority of the time, you don't. Fetchlands, duals, basics and a strip mine effect or two with sometimes a big mana land and you're good.
There are a lot of lands that reliably enter untapped and provide multiple colors with very little downside. And there are a couple cycles of legendary nonbasics that enter untapped unconditionally, provide colored mana, and some extra utility (although YMMV on how useful the utility is). Plus the eldraine cycle, that enters untapped very frequently with additional upside, desert cycle that enters untapped and works like half a pain land, etc.

Protection from wasteland is kind of a weak argument. No one would wasteland your basic land even if they could, because it's not worth the trade in multiplayer. Wasteland is for coffers, cradle, etc. And if they're doing some multi-land-drop crucible lock where they'd actually want to hit your basics, they'll probably have strip mine instead of wasteland. And even if it's down to 1v1 in the endgame, until you've run out of all your other nonbasic lands, they'll still have targets for wasteland anyway.

Fetches and duals go a long way, but that's still ultimately a pretty small percentage of your deck in 3 color. Luckily there's lots of other nonbasics with miniscule downsides, like the BB duals, command tower, filters, shocks, even painlands, etc. Pretty easy to end up with few basics, even if you're not running many utility lands. Personally I'd consider any 3c deck with 10 or more basics to be very heavy on basics.

If you want to run BM in mono-red, I think that's reasonable, although tbh I think it's pretty overrated in most metas. If I see someone playing mono-red, I'm more likely to fetch basics. All part of the game. But I see some people running BM and B2B in 3+ color decks, and running all basics to support it, and that's just stupid. Don't ruin your manabase just to justify a few medium-power cards.
1) except in specific circumstances (i.e. urborg with coffers [which I think is overrated outside of mono-B but whatever]), most of those are rarely played outside of mono-color decks. I'm not going to argue that almost any mono-color decks will have a healthy dose of basics, simply because there aren't many lands without significant downside (generally either colorless or etbt) in mono-color.
2) most of those also work with dual-typed lands, which means fetches and duals are equally useful if you are playing them in multicolor.

So none of them really work as justification for running basics in multicolor imo (which is where the tango lands could conceivably be played).
ilovesaprolings wrote:
4 years ago
DirkGently wrote:
4 years ago
If you're in 3 colors, you should only have a couple of each basic
meta dependant
DirkGently wrote:
4 years ago
1-3 is when entering untapped is the most important.
super meta dependant
No, the most reliable manabase for 3+ colors is always going to have few basics. I guess if your meta is blood moon: the meta, then sure, I guess I'd run more basics? But that seems pretty aberrant. Also kinda confusing. If everyone is running BM, doesn't it just become a bad card?

In a cEDH meta turns 1-3 is miles more important than later turns, but even in a casual meta, losing a mana in an early turn is going to have more impact than on a later one. It's a higher percentage of your turn's mana, and it's going to have run-on effects for more future turns that later turns will. If you stumble on 2 and can't cast your mana rock, you could be putting yourself a turn behind for the whole game. Whereas on turn 6, even if you can't play exactly what you wanted to, at least you'll have SOMETHING.

I suppose if your deck is nothing but 4+ drops then sure?
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Post by Serenade » 4 years ago

It's a simple design that either works with your manabase or doesn't. Excited for eventual completion of the cycle.

I knew there was another name for this cycle ("battle lands"), but that name is dumb. They always will be tangos to me.
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Post by folding_music » 4 years ago

I love this cycle of lands because it's kinda-sorta dual lands which are less pricy than shocklands are. The Amonkhet cycle tapduals are also beautiful. I'll play almost any two colour land (I say almost cos Tempest, Kamigawa and Ice Age had some rubbish depletion and double-drawback Scabland things which seem a bit insulting nowadays, and I don't even play the white-blue Time Spiral double storage land in my proliferate deck!)

probably because nowadays my meta is me vs whoever wants to play my own decks with me so I'm not competing with people who care about efficiency or people who go Gross, white borders or whatever. my play group dried up upon encountering a satellite play group who felt it necessary to arms race the casual scene and laughed at our card choices. people fetching for Taiga on the first turn and casting Beta Birds of Paradise ruined my magic lifestyle so basically, Cinder Glade forever and death to good mana bases

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Post by WizardMN » 4 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
4 years ago
Plus the eldraine cycle, that enters untapped very frequently with additional upside, desert cycle that enters untapped and works like half a pain land, etc.
This is an odd argument to make when the point of the lands today is that they provide two colors. Entering unconditionally untapped but only providing one color doesn't mean anything. If you don't need both colors, that would be the reason not to include them. And the Eldraine lands are ones I would have an even harder time justifying including them in a 3+ color than the tango lands especially if I am relying mostly on non basics (if I had the basics for them, the tango lands would be just fine).

On topic, I think these lands are great. I do think that in a 5 color deck, beyond budget reasons, there is no space for them. And I don't play 4 color decks so I have no idea. But 2 and 3 color decks always have these slotted in after the ABUR duals and Shock lands. I can't remember a time where them entering tapped ever actually mattered and most of the time I can get them to enter untapped anyway. I too am waiting for the Enemy cycle.

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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 4 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
4 years ago
In terms of how much I hate these, they're about on par with most fascist dictators.

Basics are not very good in multicolor unless you have some specific reason to want them, in which case you're probably mono-colored (BM, gauntlets, coffers, etc). The only real reason to run any basics at all is for land ramp and insurance against nonbasic hate. If you're in 3 colors, you should only have a couple of each basic, so your odds of these entering untapped is pretty low. Even in the best case, it's only untapped as your 3rd land, i.e. an inverse fastland, i.e. crap. Turns 1-3 is when entering untapped is the most important.

As a budget land these are passable-ish, but there are a lot of better options. If you're budget the land types matter a lot less anyway, and if you're not budget then there are much better options.

The only thing I like about these is that, if you have a fetchland and a turn where you have an extra mana, you can pull it out of your deck and then get a little bump of endorphins by thinking "oh thank Christ I can't topdeck that terrible land later".
Well, if you're playing green, that's two reasons right there. So they're more of a green thing, and of course these also go well with cards like Farseek and Skyshroud Claim.

I actually dismiss all taplands unless 1) what they do is really good, 2) they have a basic land type, or 3) there's a way it can enter untapped that goes with my deck. That removes quite a few multi-lands. Also, if they tap for three or more colors.
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Post by Cyberium » 4 years ago

3drinks wrote:
4 years ago
Sunday, February 23rd, 2020; must be a dance party cause it takes two to tango! That's right, today's cards are the Tango Lands from BFZ!

Fetch land is vital in any deck, and able to fix your colors right from your library is a plus, even if they may enter tapped. Tango lands are great in 2 color decks and good in 3 colors, but not recommended for 4+ consider such decks already run at least seven Ravnica dual lands, there's no need for Tango.

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