Hieroglyphic Illumination vs. Chemister's Insight

[MeowZeDung]

Yea, I know Fact or Fiction is better than either in most situations, and some decks will prefer swinging for the fences with Blue Sun's Zenith or Stroke of Genius, but for a redundant instant speed card advantage spell which of these do you prefer?

Chemister's Insight gives you CA in the mid game, and lets you do it again later, and also plays nice with loot heavy strategies.

Hieroglyphic Illumination, on the other hand gives the same CA spell but offers a cheap cantrip alternative in the early game with cycling instead of the ability to recast the CA spell.

So, which do you think is better: the flexible option, or the ability to go up a card at instant speed for 3u two times?

[PrimevalCommander]

I have been looking hard at the instant speed draw options as of late for Kalamax, the Stormsire.

I like Chemister's insight better as it offers more cards over time. It will dig 4 deep and net 3 cards, not counting the Spell itself.
Also look at Rain of Revelation that is instant speed, digs 3 deep and nets 2 cards.
Or if you go through your library quicker Dig Through Time. This one is on my watch list, but many times I can't delve it cheap enough to really take advantage. Though I only have to delve 4 to make it on par with the above mentioned spells. Hmmm, but I'll need a foil one!

[MeowZeDung]

I forgot about Rain of Revelation, which could be better in gy strategies. Dig Through Time is great, I just feel like you need to be heavily loot/mill themed or fetch dense to justify it over Stroke of Genius and Blue Sun's Zenith.

[Dunharrow]

Chemister's insight is better if you have any discard or self-mill synergies.
Otherwise, I like Hieroglyphic Illumination. I typically find that I want two kinds of draw spells in my decks: turn 1-2 draw spells that help me curve out, and later game draw spells that gain me a lot of resources.

One of the best things I did for my Phenax, God of Deception deck was throw in Ponder, Preordain and Night's Whisper.

[MeowZeDung]

I typically find that I want two kinds of draw spells in my decks: turn 1-2 draw spells that help me curve out, and later game draw spells that gain me a lot of resources.

One of the best things I did for my Phenax, God of Deception deck was throw in Ponder, Preordain and Night's Whisper.

Hard agree. I love me some Faithless Looting, Brainstorm, Ponder, and Preordain, so I'm more in the market for the bigger draw, and that alone might give Insight the edge. I find that I value a high functioning opening 7 more and more though, and Insight is not as good in the opener.

[Sinis]

I like that Chemister's Insight has more throughput with the Jump-start mechanic. If you're digging for something, or more of everything, I think CI will help you the most. The cycling on Hierglyphic Illumination probably isn't all that important except in cycling decks.

I think for HI, you have to ask yourself what circumstance you're going to cycle it in, and whether you'd just want to cast it instead.

[MeowZeDung]

I think for HI, you have to ask yourself what circumstance you're going to cycle it in, and whether you'd just want to cast it instead.

I think the opener filtering for a land/rock is just about it tbh. If I'm low on mana and digging for an answer in the mid game, I'd have to be rather lucky to cycle into exactly what I need, and if I have the mana it's just better to cast it.

This is a helpful way of thinking about it I suppose, because the primary issue becomes how smooth and consistent are the deck's opening turns and would HI' s inclusion improve on that if improvement is needed.

[materpillar]

I think Thirst for Knowledge and Thirst for Meaning are better if you can support them. Also, Compulsive Research if you're ok with it being a sorcery.

[MeowZeDung]

I think Thirst for Knowledge and Thirst for Meaning are better if you can support them. Also, Compulsive Research if you're ok with it being a sorcery.

This is true! Unfortunately I'm not looking at artifacts or enchantress and sorcery speed draw outside of Ponder and Preordain isn't up to snuff in this case.

I'm also considering Visions of Beyond, but I'm not sure if I'm looting enough. Still, it's a cantrip early which isn't a bad thing.

[Hawk]

I give a slight nod to Illumination; I dig the flexibility of cycling when I need to and getting an Inspiration when I don't. I also am fond of Glimmer of Genius even in a deck with 0 energy outlets. Seeing 4 cards at instant speed is a reasonably big deal if you're looking for a specific answer.

I rarely run any though, because after Fact or Fiction my draw slots are usually taken by cheaper spells (the Ponder/Preordain/Brainstorm/Opt/Serum Versions quintet), synergy picks (like Distant Melody in tribal, Thirst for Knowledge and Thoughtcast in an artifact-centric deck, Bident of Thassa in decks that attack, etc) or I want BIG reloads from stuff like Pull from Tomorrow, Stroke of Genius, Treasure Cruise, and Dig Through Time. I'd also dispute that the delve spells are only good in self-mill. They're certainly at their best in self-mill, but they are totally reasonable in any deck I've found. Casting them for uu or U is the dream for sure, but they are "fair enough" at 4 mana and it isn't overly hard in the average deck to get four cards you don't need anymore in the 'yard over the course of just slinging spells, cracking fetches and baubles, and losing permanents to attrition.

[MeowZeDung]

I also am fond of Glimmer of Genius even in a deck with 0 energy outlets. Seeing 4 cards at instant speed is a reasonably big deal if you're looking for a specific answer.

I forgot that Glimmer is scry TWO. Yeesh. Solid card.

I agree the delve draw spells are generically good in the mid to late game, I just find them lacking early to mid game appeal unless heavy gy synergy abounds. That, plus I'm using what's in the bin with things like Mystic Retrieval, Underworld Breach, and Sevinne's Reclamation and delve can clash with that.

I'm leaning more toward Chemister's Insight. My deck values so much that it provides: instant, CA, multiple cast triggers, gy synergy when it's pitched or pitching something relevant with jumpstart.

Edit: you bring up a good point with decks that attack and Bident of Thassa. I'm on tokens, so maybe Reconnaissance Mission is what I'm looking for. Cycles early or when I don't have attacks, or draws a million if I connect. Hmmmm.

[Antis]

IDK, maybe I just don't have enough experience with playing the style of decks you're talking about, but I don't think I've ever even considered any Inspiration-style card. Four mana for draw two just seems way too expensive. I'll allow for Hieroglyphic Inspurstion in a cycling deck, but otherwise, I wouldn't go anywhere near such cards, personally. If you already have the small spells like Brainstorm and Ponder, already have the vastly superior Fact of Fiction, and still want more, I'd go for Impulse. In certain decks, you can also use Flash as a draw spell.

As for X, I feel Pull from Tomorrow beats Stroke of Genius and BSZ any time. That one mana is all the difference in the world. There's also Read the Runes for those special decks that can abuse it (I run it in Child of Alara).

[MeowZeDung]

@Antis you're right that most decks probably don't want this effect beyond FoF. I'm playing a spellslinger/storm-ish shell that is all about keeping cards flowing without sinking a bunch of mana into something like Pull/BFZ/Stroke, That's why I need a bit higher density of instant speed CA and was most interested in what folks thought of these cards' flexibility since that utility in numerous situations is key. I'm still not sure, but I'm leaning toward Chemister's Insight, but Reconnaissance Mission or some additional cheapo cantrip effect like Anticipate or the new scry then draw one whose name I can't recall might be better (already running Impulse). I'll have to test and see.

Oh, and as for Read the Runes, I have used it to great effect in both Zedruu the Greathearted and Rielle, the Everwise. That card's an underplayed gem.

[Antis]

Do you have Telling Time and Sleight of Hand already? Also, Keep Watch is a great underplayed draw spell.

[MeowZeDung]

I've played all three in the deck with some success in the deck at one point or another. At this time I'm looking specifically for card advantage that let's me hold up interaction. Keep Watch is sweet and can do what I need, but it's situational enough that I think Reconnaissance Mission might just be better in most of those situations, but can cycle when it's not. Keep Watch on opponent's alpha strike and drawing into Settle the Wreckage is sweet though.

[bobthefunny]

Jump Start has additional synergy with River Kelpie, which I tend to like for most spell-slinger type decks, or even just as a solid card. Secrets of the Dead makes a less good second copy.

However, I also tend to find that you can often give cards flashback, or recur them in other ways, which makes some of the other options mentioned more appealing. When it comes to card draw with reuse from the graveyard, you also have to compare against Deep Analysis. The sorcery speed is a downer, however the reduced cost on the flashback is quite nice, and I have occasionally simply discarded it in order to get the cheaper use.