Mitotic Manipulation; MonoBlue's Rampant Growth?

[Ulka]

So I was browsing through some old card boxes and found a card, Praetor's Grasp which lead me to look over the New Phyrexia Block as a whole and I stumbled upon Mitotic Manipulation once again in my edh brewing life. I'm curious what peoples thoughts are if you were in a Mono blue and treating this card like a Rampant Growth assuming you have 30 basic islands (snow covered or not).

Things that could be found off it or used to abuse the card:
Persistent Petitioners
Spy Kit
Clone effects
Thada Adel, Acquisitor and other Theft effects
Island

Why these corner cases could be useful I think its most effective use is the Rampant Growth but it leads me to my main question on this thought experiment:

Does Mitotic Manipulation seem worth it or is it best left for the bulk box from once my copy came?

My answer to my own question is realistically If my blue deck has 34 islands and several clone effects, it might be worth it given that artifact ramp is easy to remove.

[Toshi]

That's an interesting thought!

While Rampant Growth might be the poster boy of said effect, i think Untamed Wilds should be the appropriate comparison. You know, CMC 3, untapped Basic and no other modes. In green Untamed Wilds isn't necessarily bad, but most certainly outclassed by dozens of spells (and dorks). Outside of green it would be a rock solid card. But, the way Mitotic Manipulation is worded its a steep downhill once you add additional colors, so i'd only consider it mono blue decks.

My Talrand, Sky Summoner deck runs 30/34 Islands, so real bad luck aside, it would basically compete with 3 drop rocks there. While it's sub-optimal not being able to ramp on turn two, to drop my commander early, basics are a lot less prone to getting taken out in comparison and it would still trigger my commander when played after it. So overall i'd say it would be an unusual, yet viable include.

Hoping that Mitotic Manipulation hits something off of an opponents board is borderline ridiculous, i think. You're a mono deck, in a color that most players run for nonpermanent spells and chances are there's not even another blue deck in your pod. Hitting your own Sol Ring with it would be a memorable play though.

I could see myself running it in an Ambassador Laquatus, Bruvac the Grandiloquent or Teferi, Temporal Archmage Persistent Petitioners build or a Baral, Chief of Compliance deck that wants to make most of his cost reduction.

[Serenade]

I don't think it's realistic to run that many basics in mono.

I think it works best with Scroll Rack, but I think I'd rather run Skyclave Relic here instead.

If somehow you get this to work as something other than ramp (using Spy Kit), consider Retraced Image as well. It's either a one-shot Burgeoning or something a little crazier.

[Sinis]

I think it's an open question if mono-blue is okay with ghetto Untamed Wilds. If you're running a lot of islands for other reasons (like Vedalken Shackles, Scourge of Fleets, Flow of Ideas or land-specific doublers, etc.) it could be worth it, because Island density makes it more viable and because you want more Islands.

Obligatory Spy Kit mention as well.

I think this (and Retraced Image) is probably better in 60x4, though. I have playsets of both and have been dying to build/play them in something, but nobody I know plays 60x4 anymore.

[Hawk]

The difference between two mana and three is vast when it comes to ramp. If your deck isn't interested in Darksteel Ingot and Commander's Sphere it probably isn't interested in this.

That's the snarky response, but I'm still surprised to see it at just 177 decks. It is legitimately "better" than a 3-mana rock in a deck where islands matter (like Charix, the Raging Isle) or where instants and sorceries matter (like mono-blue Wizard tribal, Talrand, Sky Summoner, Baral, Chief of Compliance, God-Eternal Kefnet) or where you are doing an attack of the clones deck or utilizing Persistent Petitioners as in Bruvac the Grandiloquent) and that covers a full half of the top 15 most popular mono-blue Commanders.

All that to say - it's very niche, but certainly not unplayable. I think comparing it to Rampant Growth is wrong. In terms of playability, it's less like the ol' Concentrate versus Harmonize comparison and more like Lead the Stampede versus Divination (or as noted, this versus Untamed Wilds or Natural Connection) - you are comparing a card that requires a ton of hoops to work but delivers an effect this color can't get normally to the absolute worst effect in the color that monopolizes it. Lead sees play in 1000 decks because it can still be good but it requires a very specific set-up; I think we should help get Mitotic somewhere closer to that .

[ilovesaprolings]

I mean if you really want to ramp in monoblue that much, just use Dreamscape Artist? Mitotic Manipulation seems extremely unreliable.

[darrenhabib]

What an interesting find!

You are almost guaranteed to hit an Island in a mono blue deck, and when you compare casting say a Darksteel Ingot, Mana Geode, Commander's Sphere which a lot of people will play on a budgets, then Mitotic Manipulation can put in some more value than these if you run other certain cards.
You can use it with Brainstorm to put cards you don't want onto the bottom of library.
It will go better with High Tide than a 3 mana artifact in most cases.

Honestly I think it's an option for people on a budget. It is probably not going to make slightly higher tier deck list, but if you are in the market for mana sources at 3 mana and you want more resilience than artifacts because your meta is artifact destroying crazy (which can happen) then a great little find.
I could see this being in a budget High Tide list for sure.

[MeowZeDung]

I liked it in my izzet Seven Dwarves deck since it almost always either ramped or got me another dwarf.

[ISBPathfinder]

@Ulka Try Savor the Moment instead, its blue Explore for one more mana. Sure you don't untap, but it replaces itself in hand, lets you play another land, and if you have any sort of walkers or something that triggers every turn you get that too. Savor the Moment really is three mana Explore with potential for a few other cool synergies. Another cool thing that Savor the Moment can do is sort of tag haste onto things for three mana as even though you don't untap you do push off summoning sickness.

Mitotic Manipulation forces you to try to be basic heavy which is throwing away a big benefit of being mono color which is being able to stack in more utility lands. You probably could still run it with utility lands but I often run something like 15-18 non basic lands in mono color decks so I feel like I probably would have to sacrifice some on that front to justify Mitotic Manipulation. Savor the Moment lets you keep your sweet utility lands and still ramp.

There are always the Time Warp and friends too.... I just felt like a lot of people overlook the sweet card that is Savor the Moment. Lots of people are also unwilling to burn extra turns as soon as possible as ramp. There is also a bit of the feels bad situation with extra turns but I feel like Savor the Moment removes some level of that by not untapping lands and making it hard to do 2x combats in a row (would need vigilance).

[Treamayne]

Does Mitotic Manipulation seem worth it or is it best left for the bulk box from whence my copy came?
.

I would not necessarily call it "bulk" but I would call it niche. I think 30+ islands is rare in mono-blue (the only exception I easily recall is high tide combo - usually with Palinchron and /or Memnarch), but I do think the best use I have seen Mitotic Manipulation put to was a Wizard deck with Information Dealer. Token copies and clone effects make meeting the trigger a bit easier, and the dealer like to dig.

I also considered MM for my Sydri Vehicle deck, if only because it likes having Mirrorworks to make artifact copies, as well as sacrificing the artifacts for profit. I thought if I could recur from GY to ToL, this might come in handy. It got cut however, since there just were not enough Academy Ruins effects to support.

[Dragoon]

How does clone effects work with Mitotic Manipulation? Clone is named "Clone" everywhere other than the battlefield and has the name as the copied creature once it hits the battlefield. I don't see how running cloning effects help in any way with Mitotic Manipulation, am I missing something?

[Hawk]

How does clone effects work with Mitotic Manipulation? Clone is named "Clone" everywhere other than the battlefield and has the name as the copied creature once it hits the battlefield. I don't see how running cloning effects help in any way with Mitotic Manipulation, am I missing something?

I think the idea is that if you Clone an opponents Consecrated Sphinx or Phyrexian Metamorph their Sol Ring you now have more hits in your own library, but that's a pretty niche and narrow synergy.

[Dragoon]

How does clone effects work with Mitotic Manipulation? Clone is named "Clone" everywhere other than the battlefield and has the name as the copied creature once it hits the battlefield. I don't see how running cloning effects help in any way with Mitotic Manipulation, am I missing something?

I think the idea is that if you Clone an opponents Consecrated Sphinx or Phyrexian Metamorph their Sol Ring you now have more hits in your own library, but that's a pretty niche and narrow synergy.

But Mitotic Manipulation doesn't care about who controls the permanent.

[darrenhabib]

But Mitotic Manipulation doesn't care about who controls the permanent.

The card has even more uses in that you can use top of library tutors to line up with cards that opponents might have played and you have your own versions in the deck.
Worldly Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Enlightened Tutor, etc.

[Ulka]

Wow I never expected to get this type of discussion on this card. You are all right in that it much more of a Untamed Wilds than Rampant Growth. I used rampant as the example as it was the first card that popped into my head when thinking on this topic. as to why not use Dreamscape Artist? Mostly because it is fragile to removal.

I do understand 30 islands is a lot but I know in my own monoblue deck I currently play 38 lands 30 of which are islands so stats wise it plays similar. So im glad im not alone thinking its a niche card but has some merits. I not really want to test a Jalira, Master Polymorphist deck where I run a decent amount of clone effect and Spy Kit to mess with its ability to grab fatties out of my deck but I do think that I will be needing to test Retraced Image and Savor the Moment both as ramp cards In monoblue.

[Dragoon]

But Mitotic Manipulation doesn't care about who controls the permanent.

The card has even more uses in that you can use top of library tutors to line up with cards that opponents might have played and you have your own versions in the deck.
Worldly Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Enlightened Tutor, etc.

This I can see the synergy, but I just don't see the interaction with clone effects...

[Treamayne]

This I can see the synergy, but I just don't see the interaction with clone effects...

When I have seen it used with a clone effect, it was for free-casting multiples of <something>. For example, a mill deck I played against on MTGO used Body Double to copy his milled Palinchron. A turn or three later, when his GY was threatened, he used Volrath's Stronghold to send the original to the top of his library, then used Mitotic Manipulation (MM) to drop it on the battlefield (starting his inf mana shenanigans with other clone effects).

I've also seen somebody playing a clone deck dodge exile removal with Whisk Away, then MM the original back to the battlefield (likely not why whisk away was in the deck, but an interesting play at the time).

As I said before, it's very niche. But if, for some reason, your deck wants to use MM type effects to play multiple copies of fatties for free; it is an option.

[darrenhabib]

Is Retraced Image monoblue Arboreal Grazer/Elvish Pioneer?

[Mookie]

Is Retraced Image monoblue Arboreal Grazer/Elvish Pioneer?

Arguably yes, but it depends somewhat on the deck. Grazer and Pioneer have incidental upside due to being creatures - they can attack, block, carry equipment, be sacrificed for value, etc. Perhaps most importantly, they can also trigger Glimpse of Nature effects. There are blue cards that can benefit from casting instants and sorceries, such as Niv-Mizzet, Parun and Metallurgic Summonings... but those are a bit less common than green's synergies. As a result, I would say that Retraced Image is worse in a vacuum due to the lower floor.

....on the other hand, green also has waaaay more options for ramp than blue does, so Retraced Image goes up in value slightly as a result due to uniqueness. Context matters a lot here.

[darrenhabib]

Is Retraced Image monoblue Arboreal Grazer/Elvish Pioneer?

Arguably yes, but it depends somewhat on the deck. Grazer and Pioneer have incidental upside due to being creatures - they can attack, block, carry equipment, be sacrificed for value, etc. Perhaps most importantly, they can also trigger Glimpse of Nature effects. There are blue cards that can benefit from casting instants and sorceries, such as Niv-Mizzet, Parun and Metallurgic Summonings... but those are a bit less common than green's synergies. As a result, I would say that Retraced Image is worse in a vacuum due to the lower floor.

....on the other hand, green also has waaaay more options for ramp than blue does, so Retraced Image goes up in value slightly as a result due to uniqueness. Context matters a lot here.

You can also potentially put a Blightsteel Colossus into play, so I would arguably say more upside. Now I'm not saying you will, but it is theoretically possible.