Problem Commanders: Do You Play Them?

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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Dragoon wrote:
3 years ago
Sure you can play those cards, but you don't have to. If you want to play Kalamax without being obnoxious, I think you must build it "fair". It's the same rules for all of those problematic commanders. You can actively build them to be fair, just like you can build a non-combo Ghave deck. You just have to be conscious about it when building. Although that's coming from someone who is 0% Spike and doesn't care at all if he wins or loses as long as the game is enjoyable so YMMV.
Even fair, he's an oppressive commander by design, with an inbuilt win-con for doing what it does naturally. The decks I've played have I've not seen Wilderness Reclamation or Seedborn Muse, just a lot of one drop cantrips and control. Things like Ponder, Nature's Claim and such. It's just enough that another player has primacy over the stack during your own turn. and it sucks unless you're playing heavy control yourself. Even then, playing permission just to have your own turn feels bad. So, ultimately, the only real solution is to nuke the Kalamax player until they stay down or cannot cast their commander any longer. Which feels bad in return, but it's what you need to do with all of the initially mentioned commanders - Golos, Chulane, Korvold, Urza et al.

I'm gonna slightly call BS on building non-combo Ghave, Guru of Spores too. I've tried, and it isn't easy in any way, short of running something that would really struggle in the format in general - there's just no half way with that commander. That being said, Ghave, Guru of Spores is a relic of different days when Wizards just didn't realise what they were printing, similarly with Animar, Soul of Elements. I think they do moreso now, I just think they have the balance a bit off for this format at present. I saw an interview between Sheldon and Olivia Gobert-Hicks where they mentioned in speaking with MaRo at some point that he had said that with every release they now take EDH heavily into consideration with printings for every set now. Olivia said she wished they wouldn't, because we don't need any help breaking things in this format, and she's absolutely right - we'll take what we can get, and we don't need anything new to bust the format in half if that's what we want to do. But Wizards are gonna Wizards I guess.
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Post by Dragoon » 3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
Dragoon wrote:
3 years ago
Sure you can play those cards, but you don't have to. If you want to play Kalamax without being obnoxious, I think you must build it "fair". It's the same rules for all of those problematic commanders. You can actively build them to be fair, just like you can build a non-combo Ghave deck. You just have to be conscious about it when building. Although that's coming from someone who is 0% Spike and doesn't care at all if he wins or loses as long as the game is enjoyable so YMMV.
Even fair, he's an oppressive commander by design, with an inbuilt win-con for doing what it does naturally. The decks I've played have I've not seen Wilderness Reclamation or Seedborn Muse, just a lot of one drop cantrips and control. Things like Ponder, Nature's Claim and such. It's just enough that another player has primacy over the stack during your own turn. and it sucks unless you're playing heavy control yourself. Even then, playing permission just to have your own turn feels bad.
Honestly, this description just feels like playing against any kind of heavy control deck, like Talrand, Sky Summoner or Kess, Dissident Mage. If you don't like playing against those kinds of decks, I don't think it's fair to hold it against Kallamax specifically.
toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
I'm gonna slightly call BS on building non-combo Ghave, Guru of Spores too. I've tried, and it isn't easy in any way, short of running something that would really struggle in the format in general - there's just no half way with that commander. That being said, Ghave, Guru of Spores is a relic of different days when Wizards just didn't realise what they were printing, similarly with Animar, Soul of Elements. I think they do moreso now, I just think they have the balance a bit off for this format at present. I saw an interview between Sheldon and Olivia Gobert-Hicks where they mentioned in speaking with MaRo at some point that he had said that with every release they now take EDH heavily into consideration with printings for every set now. Olivia said she wished they wouldn't, because we don't need any help breaking things in this format, and she's absolutely right - we'll take what we can get, and we don't need anything new to bust the format in half if that's what we want to do. But Wizards are gonna Wizards I guess.
Building non-combo Ghave and non-combo Animar is totally doable, I've done it and seen it done multiple times. And those decks didn't seem that bad. Sure, they were not an "8 on the power scale" but I think they can do just fine in most of casual metas. Again, you can play those commanders in a fair way and match the power level of your playgroup. If you choose not to, it's not fair to blame the card only. Their design is indeed inherently pushed but some players like me just see that as an opportunity to play more niche strategies that will very much need the added support provided by the general. Commander is about self-expression after all, and anything that can provide help in that regard will always be welcome in my book.

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Post by Yatsufusa » 3 years ago

To some extent, the Commander is like a multiplier to the 99, something like the foil price multiplier on cards.

We can't really quantify the quality of cards (naming staples only goes so far), but vaguely put it when it comes to the generally good cards like Chulane, the multiplier can create an even larger gap. A completely new player with a scarce collection could maybe have a (randomly assigned) base quality value of 30 in the 99, of which Chulane amplifies to 90, while someone with a stocked collection might have a base 100 value, but the synergy with Chulane is that good (due to having more, and hence better cards to choose from) the multiplier becomes 4 instead, resulting in a 400 deck.

Of course, this doesn't cover the linear commanders either, their multipliers are abysmal in general lists, but in the lists catered to them, it's the Commander multiplier that skyrockets. Some commanders cover both, having a decent general multiplier with an obnoxious uptick on some specific lists (although a distinction that specific lists must contain a sizable portion of niche/thematic cards, a goodstuff list of staples isn't specific even if it can be technically one-of-a-kind in a vacuum).

Funnily now I've describe it as such, I can see why WotC pushes the format the way they do, those commanders with base high-multipliers make it more attractive to new players who see it as a way to jack up their 30-rating beginner 99s to 90s so they could mingle with the more experienced players, but as I pointed out, the scaling applies to the experienced players as well and they soon learn they're no longer vying with 250-rated decks, but 400 decks because Chulane brought those numbers up. Not saying what WotC did was right (in fact more of leaning the opposite), but I could see the base (short-sighted) rationale behind the tactic.

To sum it up, the more boisterous collection you have, the more niche strategies (and commanders) you could afford to "play", because you could afford to balance around the final rating of your deck. WotC tried to give the newer players a notch-up by putting great multiplier Commanders so even their decks feel powerful, but in the process the older players got skyrocketed to beyond reach. Then it boils down back to the one thing all MTG players clamor for: what WotC should be doing is more meaningful reprints so any player can build a boisterous collection to build more niche Commanders instead.

The Commander is consistent, but the 99 is the variety. A strong/flexible 99 (and by extension a collection that enables those 99s) is what makes a niche strategy/commander enjoyable but still powerful, which arguably equates to fun (of tinkering in the format). A strong commander, bluntly put, is just "strong" and creates a disparity between decks helmed by the same Commander but dramatically different 99 in power.

EDH itself was built as a format because (partially at least I believe) folks were tinkering with how to use their (boisterous) collection of old cards. I wouldn't say problem commanders are a problem because of solely of the card (for most of them, Griselbanned is a problem in another way), but because some newer folks don't have a choice but to build around them, since both older cards and by extension the (older) niche commanders are out-of-reach/budget.

I play Ryusei (sorta Kamigawa-themed), Freyalise (creature card-less gimmick), Yorion (walker blink), Grimgrin (zombies), Horde of Notions (lands), Alesha (aggro-aristocrat), Karador (reanimation) and Animar (battlecruiser), While I admit every deck more or less has an infinite outlet because my meta sorta demands to have at least one, they all have a gimmicky-side to them I try to pull off first in games and the reason I could balance both is because I have the collection to at least baseline around it (although to be fair I decided on my themes early on, so my trades and deals in the game pretty much surround it over the years, but when I started out I still had enough to form a passable skeleton, even if it was notably weaker).

Just commander-wise, of all my 8, arguably the only one that stands out as the typical "problem commander" is Animar (no one's talking me out of being able to cast Eldrazi Titans for 0, I couldn't even talk myself out of it, I started in the format because of it...), but the point stands, I could "afford" to play the "weaker" commanders (granted they aren't "weak", but I'm talking relative to the classic "problem commanders" of today) because I could at the very least skeletonize the structure of their decks with my collection without losing that much power in the 99.

Even then I did shift commanders in my early days, Teneb to Karador, Thraximundar to Grimgrin, Narset split to Alesha and Isperia (which became Yorion), because my collection/99s were better balanced with the later choices than the former ones (and making the later ones "better" from my POV as well). I don't necessarily take make Commander changes simply because they're better, balance is part of that - for example I'm quite confident Golos is functionally better than Horde of Notions, but I feel Horde is still managing reasonably as it is, so to today I still haven't made the leap. Isperia was actually underperforming to the weaker side, so Yorion was brought in. I briefly tried Kethis over Karador since I had a Legendary subtheme and it was actually okay either way, but not remarkable and when Mutate was revealed I decided there's more fun to be had back to Karador instead.
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Post by ZenN » 3 years ago

Basically all of my current decks are helmed commanders that people have complained about being overpowered at one point or another, several of which have been mentioned directly in this thread already. And I've previously had or tested several other decks for other commanders that have been mentioned. I've hung onto the ones that I had the most fun playing and/or that felt most appropriate for my group.

When it comes down to it, weak commanders bore me unless they're serving a very specific purpose for a very specific deck (in which case they're strong for that deck).
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Post by Treamayne » 3 years ago

In my first response (page 1) I mentioned how I sometimes made tribal versions of problem commanders in an effort to use them in a different (and hopefully less abusive) way. After reading the rest of the thread, I thought "Hmm, I already have a mono-G Seton, Krosan Protector Druid Tribal deck. Let's see what happens if I convert that to a Bant Chulane Druid Tribal. How bad could it be?"

Wow, he's everything you all said he was; turned up to eleven. I was reticent to think Druid Tribal could be threatening in the red zone (or really much at all unless you are using combo Gilt-Leaf Archdruid shenanigans). It only took a couple of goldfished games to realize I would never want to actually play this in a real game. Yes, Chulane made mana dorks unfun, derpy, and annoying. Here's my (MTGO) test deck, if anybody is interested:

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Post by JWK » 3 years ago

Treamayne wrote:
3 years ago
In my first response (page 1) I mentioned how I sometimes made tribal versions of problem commanders in an effort to use them in a different (and hopefully less abusive) way. After reading the rest of the thread, I thought "Hmm, I already have a mono-G Seton, Krosan Protector Druid Tribal deck. Let's see what happens if I convert that to a Bant Chulane Druid Tribal. How bad could it be?"

Wow, he's everything you all said he was; turned up to eleven. I was reticent to think Druid Tribal could be threatening in the red zone (or really much at all unless you are using combo Gilt-Leaf Archdruid shenanigans). It only took a couple of goldfished games to realize I would never want to actually play this in a real game. Yes, Chulane made mana dorks unfun, derpy, and annoying.
Yup. Even more than the likes of Prossh and Animar, Chulane is broken with no effort whatsoever, just by including minimal levels of synergy, a fair number of useful, low-cost creatures and an adequate land count. If you actually go for a high-synergy build, you will get something incredibly broken and comborific. You have to actively build in an anti-synergistic manner to have him not just randomly go off.
I have 68 active EDH decks, with more in progress. I don't consider this a problem. Do you?
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

JWK wrote:
3 years ago
Yup. Even more than the likes of Prossh and Animar, Chulane is broken with no effort whatsoever, just by including minimal levels of synergy, a fair number of useful, low-cost creatures and an adequate land count. If you actually go for a high-synergy build, you will get something incredibly broken and comborific. You have to actively build in an anti-synergistic manner to have him not just randomly go off.
Yup, he's just gross with very little effort. My immediate first target when I see someone shuffle him up.
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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
Yup, he's just gross with very little effort
Can be said about basically every popular commander from the last 3 years or so unfortunately. They got the recipe of "giant card advantage engine for doing something you are going to do anyway" and just couldn't stop.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

pokken wrote:
3 years ago
toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
Yup, he's just gross with very little effort
Can be said about basically every popular commander from the last 3 years or so unfortunately. They got the recipe of "giant card advantage engine for doing something you are going to do anyway" and just couldn't stop.
I mean we're all in this thread for the same reason, but it needs to be said, I just don't find that enjoyable. Restriction breeds creativity, which is fun.
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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
Restriction breeds creativity, which is fun.
They forgot the restriction part by making all the CA engines way too broad, e.g.:
Winota - attack with non-human dude
Golos - straight up above rate mana sink
Chulane - play dude
Korvold - sacrifice stuff? like any stuff? dumb
Yarok - ETB?! Isn't that this format's nickname, ETB: The Gathering?

Just a bunch of big dumb oofs.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

pokken wrote:
3 years ago
toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
Restriction breeds creativity, which is fun.
They forgot the restriction part by making all the CA engines way too broad, e.g.:
Winota - attack with non-human dude
Golos - straight up above rate mana sink
Chulane - play dude
Korvold - sacrifice stuff? like any stuff? dumb
Yarok - ETB?! Isn't that this format's nickname, ETB: The Gathering?

Just a bunch of big dumb oofs.
I'm gonna add Xyris - drawing more than one card per turn. In rug. They kind of just went 'hey I know you play Temur so here's some more Temur so you can get more Temur when you play your Temur'. It's fine, just boring to play against. Ramp, draw, snakes, swing, win. Yawn.

(as an aside, I've had two games in a row against him that I've specifically nerfed the crap out of him. Firstly by stealing him with Zealous Conscripts and wheeling thrice with Terror of the Peaks in play for a one turn table kill, and secondly just by turning his snakes off with Eye of Singularity)

He's not unbeatable or OP or busted or anything, just obnoxiously pushed.
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Post by JWK » 3 years ago

Speaking of possibly problematic commanders, how are you all finding Omnath, Locus of Creation? I know he's the current thing that's ruining standard, but a) I don't really care about standard, and b) Commander isn't standard. I am finding him quite powerful, but not overpowering at the level of Korvold or Urza or Chulane. I am also liking that while he definitely guides you in a certain direction (landfall), the wide range of good landfall and landfall-interactive cards available across four colors means you can build in any number of ways based around landfall and still have an effective deck. I think this makes playing against Omnath more interesting.
I have 68 active EDH decks, with more in progress. I don't consider this a problem. Do you?
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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

I think he's only overpowered if you plan to blink him to reset his counter and chain multiple triggers. Otherwise he seems like a pretty serviceable landfall commander.

I'm not 100% sure he's more powerful than Omnath, Locus of the Roil which is the deck I am considering converting to him since I really enjoy some of the white landfall cards.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 years ago

I've got an Omn4th in my group. The builder's not even remotely cutthroat, but the deck still turned out super strong by local standards. It's actually a little funny, watching my chiselled Feather go toe to toe with a more leisurely slapped together pile of stuff headed by a wildly ramping cantrip. If he added some blink and more fetches, I'm pretty sure I'd reliably get left in the dust. One of the things holding back Omn4th from being a widespread hit is that you want the full set of fetches to milk him fully, and fetches are not exactly the most budget or exciting thing you can buy.
 
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Post by Dragoon » 3 years ago

JWK wrote:
3 years ago
I am also liking that while he definitely guides you in a certain direction (landfall), the wide range of good landfall and landfall-interactive cards available across four colors means you can build in any number of ways based around landfall and still have an effective deck. I think this makes playing against Omnath more interesting.
I think its power level is fine for Commander. I just slightly disagree with your statement though. Yes, there are a number of landfall cards but it'll still end up in the same global strategy anyway. The strength of the commanders talked about in this topic is that they don't really push you in any specific direction. Chulane just asks you to play creatures, Korvold to sac stuff, Golos to do whatever you want. I think the differences between two random Chulane decks (or Korvold, or Golos, etc) are far greater than between two random Omnath decks. I think "landfall" as a strategy is definitely narrower than "creatures" or "sacrifice".

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Post by JWK » 3 years ago

I only run one of the "proper" fetches in my Omnath deck (I had an extra copy of Flooded Strand), otherwise making do with Fabled Passage, Panoramas and things like Krosan Verge, Blighted Woodland and Terramorphic Expanse, and it gets by just fine, really. Most of the lands in my deck (25 of 40) are basics, and almost all of the rest (other than Command Tower, Field of the Dead and two Triomes) fetch other lands

The blinky version of Omnath is probably the most powerful one, but I have so far avoided going down that route, both to avoid my deck being overpowered and because I find some of the other builds more fun to play and to play against. I would rather win with Moraug, Fury of Akoum, Felidar Retreat and Canyon Jerboa than by getting 9 Omnath triggers a turn (something that really isn't that difficult, btw).
I have 68 active EDH decks, with more in progress. I don't consider this a problem. Do you?
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Post by JWK » 3 years ago

Dragoon wrote:
3 years ago
JWK wrote:
3 years ago
I am also liking that while he definitely guides you in a certain direction (landfall), the wide range of good landfall and landfall-interactive cards available across four colors means you can build in any number of ways based around landfall and still have an effective deck. I think this makes playing against Omnath more interesting.
I think its power level is fine for Commander. I just slightly disagree with your statement though. Yes, there are a number of landfall cards but it'll still end up in the same global strategy anyway. The strength of the commanders talked about in this topic is that they don't really push you in any specific direction. Chulane just asks you to play creatures, Korvold to sac stuff, Golos to do whatever you want. I think the differences between two random Chulane decks (or Korvold, or Golos, etc) are far greater than between two random Omnath decks. I think "landfall" as a strategy is definitely narrower than "creatures" or "sacrifice".
I dunno. Landfall does a lot of different things, and you can point it in a lot of directions. Some Omn4th decks are heavy on blue, some focus heavily on the landfall token generators, some blink Omnath over and over and try to kill people with Omnath's third landfall trigger, others are much less reliant on him. This feels more diverse to me than Chulane (in which the specific creatures almost don't matter so long as you are casting a bunch of little dudes, drawing a gazillion cards, playing a ton of lands then killing everyone with some variant of Overrun or Craterhoof Behemoth) or Kovold (where the only real question is how much do you go an Aristocrats route vs. Korvold beatdown). You're probably right that Omnath is more linear than Kenrith or Golos, though.
I have 68 active EDH decks, with more in progress. I don't consider this a problem. Do you?
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Post by Dragoon » 3 years ago

JWK wrote:
3 years ago
I dunno. Landfall does a lot of different things, and you can point it in a lot of directions. Some Omn4th decks are heavy on blue, some focus heavily on the landfall token generators, some blink Omnath over and over and try to kill people with Omnath's third landfall trigger, others are much less reliant on him. This feels more diverse to me than Chulane (in which the specific creatures almost don't matter so long as you are casting a bunch of little dudes, drawing a gazillion cards, playing a ton of lands then killing everyone with some variant of Overrun or Craterhoof Behemoth) or Kovold (where the only real question is how much do you go an Aristocrats route vs. Korvold beatdown). You're probably right that Omnath is more linear than Kenrith or Golos, though.
There are tons of creature-based strategies that could be helmed by Chulane, even EDHRec lists a bunch of them (druid, elves, spirits, hatebears, morph, blink, etc). Korvold is more linear than Chulane, but its trigger works for any kind of permanent, which means you can base your "aristocrats" trigger off of artefacts or lands. You can even go full Voltron and just use your fetches and other staple cards to do the talking through Korvold. Same for Yarok, the Desecrated who lets you focus your ETB's on permanents other than creatures.

For a landfall deck, the payoffs might vary but the core engine stays the same, revolving around lands. I'm not saying it's not fun, far from it, but to me, Chulane offers so much more possibilities than Omnath will ever offer by design alone. The design of those "problematic" commanders is definitely pushed and I can understand how some people view them as the boogeyman of the format, but they are certainly far from being linear, which I think is the main reason for their popularity.

EDIT: Spelling corrections
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 years ago

Oh wow, Omn4th is actually the most built commander right now on EDHREC. I'm happily eating my hat. Last I checked he was hovering around 15th place, and I was trying to come up with a justification for this state of affairs. Nice to see something finally knock year-old value engines off the pedestal, even if it is a slightly less malicious form of value engine.
 
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Post by obi_ivan_kenobi » 2 years ago

JWK wrote:
3 years ago

I have a Jhoira deck. It isn't one of the storm versions, just a fair artifacts/historic deck, but it draws me a ton of cards and includes lots of ways to get extra turns, then wins with big artifact creatures and/or tons of thopter tokens, or by drawing a ton of cards with Psychosis Crawler in play. It's among my strongest decks, but it can involve some really long turns of drawing and playing a gazillion cards.
Hi JWK, do you happen to have the list for that Jhoira deck? I'm looking to build a deck with her in a similar fashion, but I'm seeing that all roads lead to building it for storm. Originally, I liked the idea of going that approach, but then I realised that I'll lead to repetitive matches with long turns on my side. That's way I liked her as an artifacts value deck that would draw cards with eggs and then I could play other artifact bombs. This is my WIP deck
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/31-03-2 ... m-captain/
It started as a storm one but then I started adding cards not directly related to storm.

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Post by JWK » 2 years ago

obi_ivan_kenobi wrote:
2 years ago
JWK wrote:
3 years ago

I have a Jhoira deck. It isn't one of the storm versions, just a fair artifacts/historic deck, but it draws me a ton of cards and includes lots of ways to get extra turns, then wins with big artifact creatures and/or tons of thopter tokens, or by drawing a ton of cards with Psychosis Crawler in play. It's among my strongest decks, but it can involve some really long turns of drawing and playing a gazillion cards.
Hi JWK, do you happen to have the list for that Jhoira deck? I'm looking to build a deck with her in a similar fashion, but I'm seeing that all roads lead to building it for storm. Originally, I liked the idea of going that approach, but then I realised that I'll lead to repetitive matches with long turns on my side. That's way I liked her as an artifacts value deck that would draw cards with eggs and then I could play other artifact bombs. This is my WIP deck
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/31-03-2 ... m-captain/
It started as a storm one but then I started adding cards not directly related to storm.
I sent a link to my deck via PM.
I have 68 active EDH decks, with more in progress. I don't consider this a problem. Do you?
I am also one of those barbarians who enjoys winning by turning creatures sideways.

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Post by NZB2323 » 2 years ago

I don't play any of the problem commanders mentioned in the 1st post, but I guess this comes back to rule 0 and some people would call my commanders problematic. I try and have decks of different power levels; I have an Edric, Spymaster of Trest deck that runs no rares or uncommons, a Sarulf, Realm Eater deck that runs no rares, a Morophon, the Boundless infinite Kavu combo deck, and a cleric tribal deck. I usually start with my cleric tribal deck at a table because it has interaction, card draw, and different ways to win, but has no infinite combos, no MLD, no extra turns, ect. However some people would call it a problem commander deck because it runs Tymna the Weaver which a lot of people would call a problem commander and a lot of people don't like Tymna or partner commanders in general.

I did build a Winota, Joiner of Forces deck because I wanted to have a powerful Boros deck for commander.

Some people complain about Captain Sisay and how she can tutor for everything. Others complain about Kaalia of the Vast. Some hate losing to combo in Niv-Mizzet, Parun or Morophon, the Boundless. I've had people complain about eminence when playing against Edgar Markov. One time a guy complained that I shouldn't be able to play so many Rat Colonys in a commander game with Marrow-Gnawer.

I've never really heard any complaints about Ghen, Arcanum Weaver, but I haven't got to play with him much in social setting during Covid. I pack a bunch of hate cards in there that I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't appreciate playing against, especially if they're not playing white or green and don't have a ton of enchantment removal.

Even Sarulf, Realm Eater has been called problematic, even though he's fair and I run a powered down version of him.
Current Decks
rg Morophon, the infinite Kavu Eowyn, human tribal Legolas, voltron control Wb Tymna/Ravos cleric tribal Neheb, Chicago Bulls tribal Ug Edric pauper

Retired Decks
Edgar Markov Kaalia, angel board wipes Ghen, prison Captain Sisay Ub Nymris, draw go Sarulf, voltron control Niv-Mizzet, combo Winota Sidisi, Zombie Tribal

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Igzex
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Post by Igzex » 2 years ago

I play Golos, but mine is just a big love letter to old, janky artifacts like Serpent Generator , Diamond Kaleidoscope, and Aladdin's Ring . It's the one deck where people don't really care to keep Golos off the board because once they see it cheat The Hive and Bottle of Suleiman onto my battlefield, letting it stick around is actually less helpful to me. Only with this deck will they see Golos and ask "Why?" with concern rather than with horror.

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FoxOfWar
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Post by FoxOfWar » 2 years ago

By way my deckcrafting brain works and my love for going down the unbeaten path, I tend to avoid commanders that are bonus and payoff in the same package. I also like having access to my commander for whatever my plan is, and "kill-on-sight" is a good way to make sure that doesn't really happen. On top of one of my philosophies being "this is a really dumb idea, let's see how I can make it work", which definitely operates better if I'm not Public Enemy #1 from turn 0.
36 decks or so...
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Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile - Ghosty Blinky Anafenza - Nezahal - Big, Blue and HERE! - Gonti Can Afford It - Kazuul, Tyrant of Chandras - Polukranos, More Mana - Azor Takes Flight - A3OS System - Vona Life Pain - Angel With a Whip and Her Pet Fox - Tolsimir Wolf Crusade - Dragonlord Steal & Copy - Arjun, the Mad Flame - Tatyova's Mad Lands - Zegana's Simic - Chainer Does the Value Dance - Polukranos, Unchained - Running Thromok - Sydri's Loco-Inspiraion - Zedruu the Furyhearted - Estrid Land Animation - A Case of Tariel's Persistent F*ckery - Tail of the AristoCat Humanitarian - Karador, Tomb Operator - Tayam Re-Curses - Jeleva... does... things - Sidisi, Death is Served - Omnath, Blink and You're Missing - The Negatiweaver - Breya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs - Ishai and Reyhan Dicepile - Kynaios and Tiro Landfall Impersonations - Tana and Ravos' Regal Gatekeeping - Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation - General Tazri's Utterly Amazing Allies

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3drinks
Kaalia's Personal Liaison
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Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria

Post by 3drinks » 2 years ago

Idk, I think white border Korvold has been a [certainly powerful], but not broken exercise. It's an example of having an avenue of build that doesn't just take over the whole game (any less than sticking grave pact|8ed in a deck with creatures could potentially skew things anyway. It doesn't just exist and then win like Omn4th (I like this and I'm gonna keep it), Chulane, and Golos do.

...That's what we're talking about, right? I kinda lost the plot when this nine month old thread was necro'd a few days ago.

Modern
R{R/W} 87guide Burn
Commander
WRKellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
RTorbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
WBRKaalia HQ

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