Is This Format Too Dependent on Netdecking?

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Kelzam
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Post by Kelzam » 3 years ago

tstorm823 wrote:
3 years ago
Kelzam wrote:
3 years ago
The weird stigma against "net decking" or using available resources when building decks be it for Commander or other formats is an absurd form of gatekeeping that should have died in the late 90's with the rise of Magic search engines and discussion boards to share ideas, and frankly the mentality is also just as out of date. This bizarre badge of honor people wear for not using the tools as they become available to them just so they can wield some weird form of superiority complex to belittle others is baffling.
It's not baffling at all. I have some decks online and take great pride in people using me as a reference, I have no problem with people using online resources to help build their decks, but it isn't baffling.

People get upset in any situation where the balance of the meta breaks. When the power levels of decks lose balance, it makes a worse experience. For anyone who started out playing Magic as Richard Garfield intended, where people have the few cards they happen to pull from packs and play with their friends, the first time they experienced a broken meta is likely when someone went online to research good decks and bought all the singles they needed. That's a bad taste in a lot of mouths.

It takes a significant level of sophistication to go online, see what other people are doing, and use their ideas while still maintaining a power level even somewhat consistent with your playgroup.
You assume and give far, far too much credit towards the effect that netdecking or using tools like EDHREC or search engines like Scryfall has on the "meta" or "balance".
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Post by darrenhabib » 3 years ago

Treamayne wrote:
3 years ago
I realize that some Generals are "solved" and the incidence of multiple players having many cards in common may be high, but even then I would usually expect more than a few cards to differ between lists. With less common or newer Generals, I find it odd when many players have nearly identical decks but all claim to have built it "all myself."
I'm mean the thing is that commander has been solved as a format as a whole when it comes to making the most winning decks.
So you will get people, including myself, if just going for a deck that has the highest % of winning will feature a lot of the same type of cards.
In this respect I can see why a lot of decks end up looking similar and people will say that they have built it by themselves.
I built a Kykar Underworld Breach deck and a month later I see that the "cEDH" recommended list is exactly like mine (under 5 cards difference). I didn't publish the list so I know it wasn't taken from me, but is just a consequence of understanding good deck making when it comes to "most winning" formula.

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Post by tstorm823 » 3 years ago

Kelzam wrote:
3 years ago
You assume and give far, far too much credit towards the effect that netdecking or using tools like EDHREC or search engines like Scryfall has on the "meta" or "balance".
I don't think you understand yet. A casual meta, a casual balance isn't like a competitive meta with competitive balance. A search engine for card suggestions doesn't break a format, and it's a great tool to have for people making the most of it, but that isn't most people playing Magic. Most of the people playing the game aren't using the comprehensive list of cards ever printed to make the search engine matter, they're just using the cards they own and playing with friends. It's not "the meta", it's thousands of metas, almost all of which started as paper magic on kitchen tables. Whenever someone in these young groups starts to use the tools available and buy singles to tune their deck, the equilibrium is broken, especially if they just go online and find a deck built by a more experienced player and copy it card for card. Their kitchen table friends can't compete without following suit. In effect, they can't play the same game they were together anymore.

And like, if they do follow suit, I believe the game gets better. Magic is a deep and wonderful game because there's so much you can do with it, and sticking to just the tiniest corner is missing out on so much. But can't you understand the people who had their tiny corner broken, who wish for the good old days when it was just their friends playing with crappy cards for hours?
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Post by BaronCappuccino » 3 years ago

While some categories, like land, rocks, tutors, draw and answers, I just plop in by memory, particularly the tutors, draw, rocks and answers, whereas the lands I know by cycle name all the time if not card name most of the time. You give me any color combination in Magic and I'll return you a generic good-stuff template in minutes - I never vary. I also mostly know what broad genres of cards I'd want if given a particular non-vanilla commander. I don't always know all the individual cards. It's here where online resources like EDHRec and Gatherer come into their own. I don't think most commander players need or use help for entire decklists. They just need the last 10 cards that make their deck particular to their commander.

In my case, I run Judith, the Scourge Diva, as a Shadowborn Apostle deck, and I decided that in this case, budget wouldn't be an issue. I wanted my only bottleneck to be the deck concept itself, so, it built itself. After the initial executive decisions about how much of a particular category I needed, I had almost no need for the net. I built it myself, but did I really? Of the already small amount of discretion cards that can go into a commander deck, 24 or so of mine were further selected for me. Demons are where the discretion really lies, but is it really? I mean, if you're not going six apostles → Rune-Scarred Demon or Razaketh, the Foulblooded → one of two combo lines → win, you might as well just embrace creativity from the start, and the whole deck is invalid. Didn't netdeck at all? Spent the better part of a decade netdecking to just this moment? Aside from the broad concept of Judith helming an Apostles strategy, there was very little innovation to be had and my only chance to exercise judgement was in quantities within categories. You say 37 lands, I vomit out the same 37 cycles and staples. You say 9 rocks, I vomit out the same 9 you'd get suggested online. It's all rote-repetition now.

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Post by Inkeyes22 » 3 years ago

Kinda reminds me of this article https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2015-04-20

I can see people thinking they are very creative, and being 100% correct... then you show up and someone else had the same idea.

Way back when (2004) Ravager was the big bad. a group of friends and I developed a u/r deck using March of the Machines and Furnace Dragon to hose Ravager, we took it to a tournament in Nashville and one of us got an invite to the PT. We found that we were not the only ones that came up with the idea and even with all 4 of us playing against Ravager mostly, only one of us did well enough to get money. Next big tournament I player Ravager but with a splash of G for the mirror match and it wasn't long before I saw other people had the same idea.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Inkeyes22 wrote:
3 years ago
Kinda reminds me of this article https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2015-04-20

I can see people thinking they are very creative, and being 100% correct... then you show up and someone else had the same idea.

Way back when (2004) Ravager was the big bad. a group of friends and I developed a u/r deck using March of the Machines and Furnace Dragon to hose Ravager, we took it to a tournament in Nashville and one of us got an invite to the PT. We found that we were not the only ones that came up with the idea and even with all 4 of us playing against Ravager mostly, only one of us did well enough to get money. Next big tournament I player Ravager but with a splash of G for the mirror match and it wasn't long before I saw other people had the same idea.
I mean when you're building the 'best' deck, there's a lot less wiggle room for variation. Ultimately, your land base in most cases will always want fetches, abur's, shocks etc. You can almost always benefit from tutors. The further you chase the dragon of 'being the best', the more narrow your options become, until really, there's only one 'right' build.

That being said, the reason that netdecking is not an issue is that there's a variety of goals one can pursue in this format, and for a lot of people that means not chasing the competitive dragon, and altering the desired results, either to fit your own meta, your own building guidelines, or whatever theme you might choose to pursue and have your build still be viable. It's why this format is the best one; ultimately I think OP is alluding to the format becoming more 'solved' and normative, and in my opinion that's just not even an issue whatsoever. There's spikes in every format, but they're generally only interested in playing other spikes in this format, so it's not a problem.
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Post by Inkeyes22 » 3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
Inkeyes22 wrote:
3 years ago
Kinda reminds me of this article https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2015-04-20

I can see people thinking they are very creative, and being 100% correct... then you show up and someone else had the same idea.

Way back when (2004) Ravager was the big bad. a group of friends and I developed a u/r deck using March of the Machines and Furnace Dragon to hose Ravager, we took it to a tournament in Nashville and one of us got an invite to the PT. We found that we were not the only ones that came up with the idea and even with all 4 of us playing against Ravager mostly, only one of us did well enough to get money. Next big tournament I player Ravager but with a splash of G for the mirror match and it wasn't long before I saw other people had the same idea.
I mean when you're building the 'best' deck, there's a lot less wiggle room for variation. Ultimately, your land base in most cases will always want fetches, abur's, shocks etc. You can almost always benefit from tutors. The further you chase the dragon of 'being the best', the more narrow your options become, until really, there's only one 'right' build.

That being said, the reason that netdecking is not an issue is that there's a variety of goals one can pursue in this format, and for a lot of people that means not chasing the competitive dragon, and altering the desired results, either to fit your own meta, your own building guidelines, or whatever theme you might choose to pursue and have your build still be viable. It's why this format is the best one; ultimately I think OP is alluding to the format becoming more 'solved' and normative, and in my opinion that's just not even an issue whatsoever. There's spikes in every format, but they're generally only interested in playing other spikes in this format, so it's not a problem.
No I get that, it is probably safe to say that people are generally inspired to build because of a commander or an idea etc. not solely to win. People may try to get the cEDHest deck but price is not the only reason most don't go that route. I do appreciate cEDH on occasion as you have fewer crappy games because of poor threat assessment or collaboration, you tend to have more interaction with the stack, but you also have less variety.

For example I was excited to build a deck again when I saw the new phyrexian swamp. When I saw the price tag on a single swamp because WotC made the terrible decision to only include one special land per booster, I lost that excitement real quick.

The format itself really can't be solved in total. There are may be some builds that are "solved" such as the best The Gitrog Monster or Norin the Wary Pandemonium where the build is so tight that you only have 3-4 flex slots for originality. But the format itself, the card pool is too deep, the motivations are to varied and yes budget sometimes even helps creativity and originality.

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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

Inkeyes22 wrote:
3 years ago
For example I was excited to build a deck again when I saw the new phyrexian swamp. When I saw the price tag on a single swamp because WotC made the terrible decision to only include one special land per booster, I lost that excitement real quick.
I don't know if that's quite fair. As far as exclusive bling cards go, swamps which can be easily replaced with a different printing for pennies seems like arguably the best way to go. There are probably people who are excited to pimp their deck with phyrexian swamps that wouldn't be interested if they were only 50 cents each. WotC is going to cater to whales because there's a lot of money there, for better or worse. This seems like a pretty harmless way to do it.

I'd much rather wotc printed fancy exclusive reprints of dirt-cheap cards rather than expensive cards that can't be gotten otherwise. FWIW, no new cards have really gotten particularly expensive for a long time, assuming jumpstart prices come down as product becomes more available. As annoying as functionally unique BaB promos and such are, it's rare for any of that stuff to crack $10.

A bit off topic I suppose.
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Post by Inkeyes22 » 3 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
3 years ago
Inkeyes22 wrote:
3 years ago
For example I was excited to build a deck again when I saw the new phyrexian swamp. When I saw the price tag on a single swamp because WotC made the terrible decision to only include one special land per booster, I lost that excitement real quick.
I don't know if that's quite fair. As far as exclusive bling cards go, swamps which can be easily replaced with a different printing for pennies seems like arguably the best way to go. There are probably people who are excited to pimp their deck with phyrexian swamps that wouldn't be interested if they were only 50 cents each. WotC is going to cater to whales because there's a lot of money there, for better or worse. This seems like a pretty harmless way to do it.

I'd much rather wotc printed fancy exclusive reprints of dirt-cheap cards rather than expensive cards that can't be gotten otherwise. FWIW, no new cards have really gotten particularly expensive for a long time, assuming jumpstart prices come down as product becomes more available. As annoying as functionally unique BaB promos and such are, it's rare for any of that stuff to crack $10.

A bit off topic I suppose.
The jumpstart packs have "rarities" as well, so the Phyrexian pack is probably one of the "mythics." Even if it had 6-7 swamps in it I doubt it would be $0.50 each. I am not expecting them to give me the cards, but there is a major difference between $2-4 per land and $12ish. Frankly whales are looking for Guru lands, or Beta, etc. People like me, that have some some disposable income and willing to buy Zendikar full arts, but not willing to pay for $300+ for a Guru Swamp probably out number the whales 1,000:1 or even higher.

I agree that keeping the FtV/Secret Lair/etc. as cosmetic upgrades is far better than a pay to win model they could adopt. They still need to remember that most are not in the extremes (either spending no money, or spending thousands per year).

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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

Inkeyes22 wrote:
3 years ago
The jumpstart packs have "rarities" as well, so the Phyrexian pack is probably one of the "mythics." Even if it had 6-7 swamps in it I doubt it would be $0.50 each. I am not expecting them to give me the cards, but there is a major difference between $2-4 per land and $12ish. Frankly whales are looking for Guru lands, or Beta, etc. People like me, that have some some disposable income and willing to buy Zendikar full arts, but not willing to pay for $300+ for a Guru Swamp probably out number the whales 1,000:1 or even higher.

I agree that keeping the FtV/Secret Lair/etc. as cosmetic upgrades is far better than a pay to win model they could adopt. They still need to remember that most are not in the extremes (either spending no money, or spending thousands per year).
So it sounds like the Zendikar full arts are the fancy lands targeted to you. Whereas the phyrexian lands might be targeted a bit outside of your price range. Gurus are obviously the most expensive option (unless there's some summer magic/arabian mountain/misprint thing that's more), but it seems reasonable to me to have varying levels of fanciness. Guru at the top, land box lands at the bottom, with foils, full-arts, APACs, etc scattered through the middle at various price points. It's a spectrum, not "whales" vs "everyone else". Personally I'm certainly not going to shell out for gurus, but I like my own lands resting between "easily available full arts everyone has" and "time to mortgage the house". Fancy without being extravagant. And ofc other people have other desired price points for their lands. Basic lands is kinda the one place where that tiered pricing element doesn't negatively impact the actual game, imo.

It sounds like you're annoyed that the ones you were more interested in weren't the ones targeted to your price range, but I'd say that's just bad luck. There are lots of fancy lands that wotc has made very accessible recently, and very few that have been more than a dollar each. It's likely that, for some people in a similar situation as you, they decided to go ahead and pay the premium to get those lands, and thus got deeper invested into magic, which is presumably something wotc wants.

Personally, I'm kinda glad there's only one special land per pack since I do plan to "draft" as much jumpstart as I can, and if I got 6-7 "special" lands worth $1 each in my pack, I'd probably just bin them. With one land worth $5+ I might actually put it in my binder, or at least my trade boxes.

Also, do keep in mind the set is still very fresh and prices are still really high. They might get more affordable as time goes on.

EDIT: went through all the jumpstart lands, and despite the rarity only 3 are worth anything significant: unicorn plains, dog plains, and phyrexian swamp.
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Post by tstorm823 » 3 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
3 years ago
So it sounds like the Zendikar full arts are the fancy lands targeted to you. Whereas the phyrexian lands might be targeted a bit outside of your price range. Gurus are obviously the most expensive option (unless there's some summer magic/arabian mountain/misprint thing that's more), but it seems reasonable to me to have varying levels of fanciness.
Clearly the correct level of fanciness is Arena Promo basics, which I believe are the only way to get foil basics with the full "tap: add mana to your mana pool" text.

If someone wants to properly and precisely net deck Zedruu, they've got to shell out for Urza's Saga Arena Promo basics.
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Post by Inkeyes22 » 3 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
3 years ago
It sounds like you're annoyed that the ones you were more interested in weren't the ones targeted to your price range, but I'd say that's just bad luck.
I know it sounds like I am crying because things cost money, I really am not.

What I am saying is that it isn't bad luck, it is poorly understanding your market. You are right, as more product gets opened the secondary market will fluctuate, but assuming the Phyrexian Swamp is the Tarmogoyf of the set, but now instead of wanting 4, I want 20-30 I doubt I will buy any more packs (I bought 9 and did get a Dog Plains but as I have 1 and I like my lands to match I won't be using it). The difference between it costing 5x as much when you want a playset versus when you want enough for a mono-colored deck will break all but the most flexible of budgets.

What would it have cost them to make all the lands special? I highly doubt it would have cost them any extra, but maybe the way they pay artists could have affected the cost. If it did it would probably be minimal. So they in effect created a shortage on purpose. Now true in a few years they might reprint the most popular arts, like they did with Return to Zendikar, or they might throw them into a Secret Lair, but you can only burn people so many times.

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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

Inkeyes22 wrote:
3 years ago
What would it have cost them to make all the lands special? I highly doubt it would have cost them any extra, but maybe the way they pay artists could have affected the cost. If it did it would probably be minimal. So they in effect created a shortage on purpose. Now true in a few years they might reprint the most popular arts, like they did with Return to Zendikar, or they might throw them into a Secret Lair, but you can only burn people so many times.
Of course it's artificial scarcity. It's ALL artificial scarcity. The whole game is artificial scarcity.

People are going to buy boosters for two reasons: For the fun of playing the game, or for the value of the cards inside. And people in the first camp (that's me) don't care about the lands either way.

If they overprint a card - any card that has demand - the value becomes essentially nil and is no longer motivation for people to purchase packs. Back in the C11 precons, scooze was pretty much the one thing moving the abzan precon, which was otherwise pretty weak. Scooze was THE card moving product. In M12 or whatever it was, scooze was a decent pack mover. People were opening packs because they might get one, although the value was dropping fairly quickly. In m21, it's pretty much junk, no longer any motivation to buy packs. People will just trade or buy them if they need them.

If they stick in enough of the new basics, they are no longer a draw value-wise because they won't be worth anything significant. Given that almost all of them (all but 3, basically) aren't worth anything even at 1-per-pack, if they had stuck in 6 of each the lands would likely fall off the radar almost entirely, value-wise. Sure, people that really wanted those lands - such as yourself - might be happy that they could pick them up cheaply on the secondary market, but everyone else would collectively shrug and ignore them, which would nullify the value in creating them in the first place.

They're trying to generate hype for a product to motivate people to crack packs. The possibility of cracking a rare swamp that's worth a moderate chunk of change is exciting, people might pay for the hope of cracking that. The possibility of cracking a big stack of common swamps worth a buck or two each? Meh, who's even going to stick all those in their binder? It's no longer a motivation for people to buy packs, because people are mostly buying packs for the hope of that exciting top-end highly valuable card, not a bunch of medium stuff.

Most confusing to me is the phrase "you can only burn people so many times". Burn as in cheat? How have you been cheated, exactly? You lose nothing by not buying these swamps. It's not like it's some powerful card that you can't afford but you'll lose to. And it's not like you bought the packs because you thought you might open a pack of 6+ phyrexian swamps - everybody knew there was one per pack before they bought them, wotc didn't trick anybody. If you don't like how scarce they've made them, then you can ofc choose not to buy them, but I don't see how anybody is getting burned in that scenario.
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Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Inkeyes22
Posts: 118
Joined: 4 years ago
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Post by Inkeyes22 » 3 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
3 years ago
And it's not like you bought the packs because you thought you might open a pack of 6+ phyrexian swamps - everybody knew there was one per pack before they bought them, wotc didn't trick anybody.
No doubt you will mock my stupidity, but I did buy packs thinking I would get 6ish special lands per pack. I knew that the Phyrexian ones were likely to be the rarest but there is a chance right?

I paid $90 for 9 packs and ended up opening maybe $45 worth of product and that is with getting Kels, Fight Fixer, Scarecrone and the Dog Plains. I read the spoilers, but I guess I skimmed the part about it only having one special land per pack.

Not sure why you are saying everyone knew when it should have been obvious from my previous posts that at least one idiot didn't, but please keep piling on me.

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DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4536
Joined: 4 years ago
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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

Inkeyes22 wrote:
3 years ago
No doubt you will mock my stupidity, but I did buy packs thinking I would get 6ish special lands per pack. I knew that the Phyrexian ones were likely to be the rarest but there is a chance right?

I paid $90 for 9 packs and ended up opening maybe $45 worth of product and that is with getting Kels, Fight Fixer, Scarecrone and the Dog Plains. I read the spoilers, but I guess I skimmed the part about it only having one special land per pack.

Not sure why you are saying everyone knew when it should have been obvious from my previous posts that at least one idiot didn't, but please keep piling on me.
I wasn't aiming to mock you, but I don't think it's fair to say that wotc burned if you misread the relevant bit. Burned, to me, implies cheating, which I'm not getting from your experience. It sounds like you just made a mistake and also maybe got a bit unlucky with pulls.

This is just my opinion, but especially with jumpstart imo you should buy for the goal of having fun with the gameplay, not just cracking for value. Then any value you get is just a bonus.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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