Viable Judo Commanders

[Mjmirobelli]

Which Commanders are viable to play a Judo style with in a roughly 75% meta? My assumption is that Jeskai is the best color combination for this style although I'd be interested in hearing other takes on it.

Jeskai colors gives access to some of the cards that I imagine would be key like: Comeuppance, Deflecting Palm, Mirror Strike, and Channel Harm.

Jeskai colors also lead me to believe that maybe Elsha of the Infinite or Kykar, Wind's Fury would be the most suitable commanders although I'm curious about other possibilities.

Thanks in advance for any of your suggestions or ideas!

[toctheyounger]

Queen Marchesa is decent. Monarch is a super underrated mechanic, and Mardu hosts a lot of Judo cards. A lot of the ones you've mentioned would fit there, and then there's critters like Boros Reckoner, Spitemare, Brutal Hordechief and such.

If you're looking in Jeskai colours, maybeZedruu the Greathearted would be good? Decks with the goat at the helm get undeniably crazy, so in terms of judo flips you'd be looking at sowing chaos instead of the Mardu style of punishing aggression with the same in return.

[Crazy Monkey]

I play Queen Marchesa in this style, which includes cards such as Backlash, Hatred, and Tainted Strike.

Marchesa incentives more combat as players compete for the monarchy. This lets me capitalize on the attacks of my opponents, and make them more lethal to my opponents while punishing attacks towards me. Marchesa also lets me play politics by trading the monarchy with another player for some tokens to build some defenses.

The downside here is a lack of blue for counterspells. I play somewhat jujitsu with my "group hug" Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis which has some counterspells to back up the damage reflection. That deck forces attacks then uses Kessig Wolf Run and Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion to make opponent's attacks on each other lethal.

[darrenhabib]

I do like Sunforger as a method to give you access to a lot of these deflection instants. So Boros at the very least.

Queen Marchesa can induce a lot of attacking, so helps force the action. If your playgroup understands that you are looking to punish them for attacking, then they will be more reserved when they attack, and Marchesa at least gives you an advantage if opponents do this.

[pokken]

This deck is going to play slow games. You probably want to play a resilient and or cheap commander. I don't love elsha because 5 cmc is an awkward spoke on the curve for a general who won't have an easy time fitting a big ramp package in and wants to cast a lot of instants.

Marchesa is nice but I think blue is going to bring so much that it's hard to skip. Stuff like portal mage, aetherspouts, aetherize, and snapcaster and mystical tutor and and and.

I'd lean toward something like aminatou, who can set up to recur your nonsense easily and really benefits from making people delicate about attacking and also comes out early enough to not require ramping really hard.

I also like ephara who benefits from a ton of the creatures like selfless squire angel of the fire hour and portal mage. And does great work in slow games.

Jenara is low key pretty good since she brings a Mana dump, low Mana cost, and the ability to kill people fast on her own.

I kinda like archangel avacyn (Boros) who has a lot of bs she can do being basically a combat trick on her own. But again no blue. And the mana cost.

[Mjmirobelli]

Wow, thanks for all of the great (and fast) suggestions! I'm definitely not sold on Jeskai and from your suggestions it sounds like I need to look a bit more carefully at Aminatou, the Fateshifter, Queen Marchesa, Ephara, God of the Polis, Zedruu the Greathearted, and Jenara, Asura of War.

Full disclosure, I have an Ephara, God of the Polis deck already but it is far from optimized and I never thought of it as a Judo contender, So I may start with the U/W base and then look towards expanding into U/W/x if I can't get it where I want it. That being said, I do have Queen Marchesa and have been thinking about using her for a while now, so that's definitely not off the table.

Without thinking about it too deeply yet, I like Jenara, Asura of War due to the inclusion of green for ramp effects.

I would definitely like to strive for including blue as cards like Consecrated Sphinx and maybe even Sire of Stagnation [/card] will go a long way in my group towards punishing folks that draw a ton of cards and ramp constantly.

I was also considering maybe getting to the colors that I wanted via Partners. I'm not sure which would be most suitable but maybe Some combination of Vial Smasher the Fierce, Kraum, Ludevic's Opus, Thrasios, Triton Hero, and Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix.

[pokken]

Green has a deceptive number of judo effects too. Stuff like arachnogenesis, obscuring haze and even seedtime is kinda funny.

I really like the idea of jenara the more I think about it.

[Mjmirobelli]

I played Seedtime in my Kalamax, the Stormsire deck (yes, he was tapped and it was copied) two weeks ago in a game! It was amazing and the group was shocked.

[gilrad]

I like to play all-instant speed or almost all instant speed to make a judo-focused strategy really work. I found having too many sorcery-speed things causes the unfortunate situation of me having to pre-emptively react to the changing board, tying down my mana that could be held up for reaction on opponents' turns.

With that in mind, the color identity becomes way more important - with such a limited card selection, access to a color becomes less about "having the best of these effects" and more about "having any access to these effects at instant speed at all".

As an example, one of my failed attempts at a judo deck was Surrak Dragonclaw. While it was able to react to the table and effectively discourage people from attacking me in the early and mid-stages of the game, it was severely hampered by my inability to deal with rapidly escalating board presences, and with my lack of options to do the same. perilous vault and oblivion stone look like low-CMC cards with an instant-speed option, but in practice they're basically CMC 8 and 9 cards because the moment they hit the board, everybody wants you to pop it on their turn so they're ahead of the rebuilding. Likewise, there's just not a whole lot of cards like decree of justice outside of white that you can dump large amounts of mana into a game-winning board presence during a lull in the action.

White is mandatory in my opinion. Being able to board wipe when players develop overwhelming boards is necessary, and white has rout and fated retribution. Dismantling Wave also deserves a look, especially if you don't have green color identity for fracturing gust. At the same time, it's got plenty of cards mentioned above and more that can turn an empty board with no tapped lands into a three-turn clock for the table in the late game, giving it plenty of closure potential.

Blue is very helpful because it has a lot of game closers like time stop, and the much-hated cyclonic rift is one of the very few instant-speed board cleaners available. I'd argue counterspells are against the nature of judo however; the point is to let your opponents attack into each other and punish them when they attack you. Removing Inferno Titan before he is able to kill opponents' creatures and hit them for six means more pressure for you to find a way to deal the necessary 120 points of damage to win the game. Despite the fact that I've never had a blowout game with portal mage, I'd still argue that these are the kind of interaction effects that define the judo playstyle.

Green has ramp, both as instant-speed cards like harrow, and one-mana cards that don't gum up your instant-speed mana. There's a few really nice cards like chord of calling that can fetch a win condition on a lull. Since you should be playing white anyways, having access to fracturing gust is almost worth the price of admission by its self, but by and large I'd say the greatest value comes from less reliance on signets for your early mana boost.

Red has a few donkey-punch cards like Reiterate and Wild Ricochet that can really turn games around if people walk into them. Blue has definitely gotten better at this identity since I last ran red in a Judo deck, but if you aren't running blue then you can still run a lot of these effects through red. It also has access to instant-speed and low-cost board cleaners through damage, which while not always the best choice, is still acceptable if you're limiting your card pool to be appropriate to judo playstyle. Even the humble comet storm can do a pretty good job of punishing an attack and cleaning the board of must-kill threats all at once when you're pumping 10+ mana into it.

Black is a little weak by its self, there really aren't any mono-black cards that really stand out as great instant-speed turnaround cards. Blue-black however has a lot of great picks, from the infamous notion thief to the great utility of ancient excavation. There's probably a bunch of other good picks with other pairs but to be honest I haven't actually ran black in a judo deck yet so I wouldn't know.

With all that said, here are some of my personal thoughts on instant-focused judo commanders:

Surrak Dragonclaw - As I mentioned above, he really suffers from not having access to white. The moment somebody casts an avenger of zendikar it's all over; there's just not any instant-speed cards that can compete with, or answer, such a board-changing threat like that. That being said, it was a while ago when I built him so maybe there are a few new options that open him up as a commander more. The end-game plan of casting him end-of-turn and pumping him with Kessig Wolf Run - or even just the public threat that you can do this at any time - is very powerful though.

Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - I could never get this commander to work well at this strategy - Judo mostly works by making yourself a terrible target to attack by punishing the first person who comes forward to try to stop you. Derevi however basically says "I'm always going to threaten the table with my stupid shenanigans as long as this player is alive", which to the table means the only solution to Derevi is to kill the player. Judo doesn't work so well when the whole table attacks you.

Ephara, God of the Polis - My most successful build. Having a commander that doesn't demand to be killed - and is pretty difficult to get rid of anyway - makes up for the fact that it's not instant-speed, but I can see this build not working so well if your playgroup tends to make moves to set up a win at turn three or four - since that's usually the turn you'll be tapping out to set up your card engine. That being said, being able to cut card draw effects creates a super dense pile of interaction in the deck that basically ensures the full hand you always have is full of answers.

Samut, Voice of Dissent - I haven't made this one yet but I've considered it. As I mentioned above, Blue isn't extremely necessary for the instant-only play style, though the card pool is a little bit weaker without it. That being said, the Wolf Run win path is super-charged here, being able to one-shot a single player in the mid-late game - and more importantly - threatening to do so at all times if someone falls behind.

Chromium, the Mutable - Another one I haven't built but it seems strong. Basically take the very solid blue/white package of Ephara, add some card draw effects, and a few of the best black/white and black/blue cards. Similar to Samut, being able to threaten a player with commander damage if it comes to the endstep before yours with seven mana up is strong, and the extra reach provided by cyclonic rift and time stop help close games.


Here's an older, not-so-updated list I keep for reference on my Ephara list: https://archidekt.com/decks/184072#ephara_all-flash

[Dragoon]

What a coincidence, I've just built a Kykar, Wind's Fury aikido deck and I intend to test it tonight :D

I've never played that style before and I tend to go all-in on theme so it might not be very good from the get-go but here's the list if you're interested: https://archidekt.com/decks/434965#[Kyk ... est_weapon

Basically, the idea is to play some combination of aikido and "You did this to yourself" style deck (see Sheldon's list for reference). Since I've already built steal-all-your-stuff (Nin) and clone-all-your-stuff (Riku) decks before, I didn't include those type of effects in here since I wanted to go on a different path.

The different categories of card I considered:

• Attack punishers ("Reflect"): cards like Deflecting Palm, Comeuppance, Reflect Damage or Boros Fury-Shield. Their creatures are either gonna hurt themselves or their controller. There's also stuff like Aetherspouts or Selfless Squire that will just void the attack with a bonus.
• Removal punishers ("Deflect"): cards like Deflecting Swat, Bolt Bend or Redirect. If they try to get rid of your permanents, change the target and point the spell at their permanents.
• Draw punishers: this is where blue comes in, cards like Consecrated Sphinx, Plagiarize or Cerebral Vortex.
• Ramp punishers: ramp is a bit harder to deal with, but we can play cards like Acidic Soil that will hurt ramp players the most. We can also punish big splashy spells with cards like Overwhelming Intellect or Refuse // Cooperate.

Since the list is mostly instant-speed, we can't afford to spend much mana on our turn so there's nothing that we must play at sorcery speed that costs more than 4 mana to cast. Since we're not playing many creatures, Kykar, Wind's Fury can provide us some bodies to chump with.

The only thing I'm severely lacking right now is some wincons, but I hate to win in a way that's not related to my theme or strategy, so no combos or unrelated threats. Basically, if nobody does anything big, the deck won't really do anything either. I'm also a bit more afraid of grindy style decks like aristocrats since they're not likely to make big plays. We could always play stuff like Harsh Mentor to deal with those, but I don't want to attract too much hate.

[Mjmirobelli]

Thanks again for all of the great ideas so far! There's a lot to work with here. I need to spend some time working through the cards that you all suggested as well as some of the deck lists.

Would Phelddagrif be a viable Bant Commander? I know it's normally associated with Group Hug strategies but my thinking was that it could potentially exacerbate any punishment effects that I'm playing based on card draw or number of creatures.

[Sinis]

I'm surprised people have undersold blue in this thread; blue has Illusionist's Gambit, Domineering Will (a personal favourite), and the classic, Ray of Command.

Since a blowout instant usually goes along the lines of your opponent strategy and an effective answer is worth repeating, it's worth noting, blue also has Snapcaster Mage, Mission Briefing, and Torrential Gearhulk.

[pokken]

Reins of Power too. Blue has it going on in this.

[Sinis]

Reins of Power too. Blue has it going on in this.

Oh man, how did we all forget about Narset's Reversal, Misdirection, Commandeer, every clone ever but especially Stunt Double, Draining Whelk, Supplant Form, Insidious Will...

[Hawk]

Not a ton to add, other than if you are interested in Aikido/Judo decks, there are two great treatises I've read on the subject:

Rachmiel's Tariel, Reckoner of Souls: You'll Thank Me For This

precociousapprentice's Queen Marchesa Aikido Primer

Both of these decks are Mardu and argue that access to Backlash, Rakdos Charm, and Batwing Brume is really critical (alongside Comeuppance and Deflecting Palm of course), but they're both also older primers now and I think Green and Blue bring plenty to the party. The strategy and card choice is as helpful as the actual commanders, I hope.

[Mjmirobelli]

I also had Snapcaster Mage, Mission Briefing, and Torrential Gearhulk on my list of definitely include. Also, if the color identity is Jeskai then I would probably give Past in Flames and/or Recoup a look as well.

I really appreciate all of the thoughts and leads people have posted so far. I keep coming back to whether I should start with Jeskai, Bant, or Mardu colors. On the surface, I like the idea of Kykar, Wind's Fury because I feel like the potential ramp that he provides helps alleviate the lack of green. However, I've never played with or against Kykar, Wind's Fury - so I'm not sure if that's how it works in practice.

[RxPhantom]

Depending on the colors you settle on, there's also:

[pokken]

Might be worth getting ahold of a Word of Command for the lols

[Artaud]

Stranglehold sounds very judo-y

[Sinis]

Might be worth getting ahold of a Word of Command for the lols

I would say this would definitely be worth it for the Mardu aficionados in this thread.

I really should sleeve that card up; I already own it...