Where do you get your deck boxes and sleeves?

umtiger
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Post by umtiger » 3 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
3 years ago
umtiger wrote:
3 years ago
When you sleeve cards without an inner sleeve, the top of the card will get dirty. There's no realistic way to avoid this because there is an opening at the top of the sleeve.
If you say so. I'm sure there's some trace amounts of dirt if you busted out your electron microscope, but even for cards where the sleeve is pretty worn the card itself looks clean as a whistle to me.
I don't have to say so. It's just a fact. And you most definitely don't need a microscope to tell.

On anything other than a cursory inspection, the top of the card will have evidently different wear/scuff/dirt than the bottom of the card. If that doesn't matter to you, that's one thing. But to say that you'd need an electron microscope to tell is another thing.

Double Sleeving does make your EDH deck take up more room in deck boxes and containers. But I don't see how this influences shuffling as much since whenever I see people shuffle, I almost always see them portion their decks. Double-sleeved or not, most people don't/can't shuffle all 99 cards at one time. If "the time wasted" irks you that much, just think about all those pile shufflers out there.

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

umtiger wrote:
3 years ago
[whenever I see people shuffle, I almost always see them portion their decks. Double-sleeved or not, most people don't/can't shuffle all 99 cards at one time.
I don't know that I agree with this. I can shuffle my whole 99 card perfect fitted deck - it took some practice, but I have very small hands. It's just technique.

Here's how I do it with 99 double sleeved:
https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/83 ... GkhV0ZRGNQ

I'll try to snap a video or something later of the Ephara hard inner sleeve method :)

edit: Shuffling perfect hard sleeved Ephara
https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/-D ... lWJpuRS3DT

I am not a good shuffler and I have small hands and I still did 7 shuffles in ~40 seconds after having not done it in 3 months. I demonstrate the two different methods I've used. The latter method is the one I am least practiced at.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

umtiger wrote:
3 years ago
I don't have to say so. It's just a fact. And you most definitely don't need a microscope to tell.

On anything other than a cursory inspection, the top of the card will have evidently different wear/scuff/dirt than the bottom of the card. If that doesn't matter to you, that's one thing. But to say that you'd need an electron microscope to tell is another thing.

Double Sleeving does make your EDH deck take up more room in deck boxes and containers. But I don't see how this influences shuffling as much since whenever I see people shuffle, I almost always see them portion their decks. Double-sleeved or not, most people don't/can't shuffle all 99 cards at one time. If "the time wasted" irks you that much, just think about all those pile shufflers out there.
I'm not sure there's any productive ground to be covered here - I'm looking at my cards and I don't see anything. Not sure what I can tell you since it doesn't sound like you're willing to listen.

Just now I took out my main collection's sol ring - probably my most played card, it's been in nearly every deck I've played for the past 7 years, when it went directly into a sleeve from one of the 2013 precons - making it an ideal candidate to look at since it started off minty fresh. Since then I've replaced the sleeve multiple times after they got incredibly filthy - the top of the sleeve accumulated a significant layer of grime and the top became warped from use. So this thing has seen some serious play. And I'm looking at it as closely as I can under the light. And I don't see a single speck of dirt, or scratch. It's clean as can be.

Call it a fact all you want, but it doesn't square with what I'm seeing at all. What is your evidence for this claim, exactly? Have you personally found your cards to become dirty from use with single sleeving? If so, what sleeves are you using? How are you shuffling?

I can shuffle 99 cards comfortably in single sleeves. Not so much with double sleeving. Portion shuffling is much harder to achieve true randomization, and it's annoying to do. I'd need to see noticeable wear on my cards to justify such an annoyance - squinting at my most played cards for ANY sign of wear and seeing nothing is not exactly enough to make me worry.

TBH I'm fairly worry-prone, so double sleeving is exactly the sort of nonsense I'm predisposed to do, if I saw any reasonable justification for it. But...I really, really don't.

@pokken Oof that looks painful lol. Whatever works I guess. I can do about 10 in 40 seconds single-sleeved (also out of practice).
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umtiger
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Post by umtiger » 3 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
3 years ago
I'm not sure there's any productive ground to be covered here - I'm looking at my cards and I don't see anything. Not sure what I can tell you since it doesn't sound like you're willing to listen.
I'm quite sure I could just point the same statement towards you. Whenever, I disagree with you, my goal isn't to change your mind since you equally don't seem willing to listen either. I'm just going to post my side and let other people decide for themselves.

I used to buy and sell cards a lot. So condition used to matter to me even more. If you don't double sleeve, the card is exposed where the sleeve opens at the top. Sleeves get really dirty, is it really that too hard to imagine that cards would also get just a little dirty where it's exposed? The same junk that shows up on sleeves will start to show on the top of cards but in a lesser form.
pokken wrote:
3 years ago
I don't know that I agree with this. I can shuffle my whole 99 card perfect fitted deck - it took some practice, but I have very small hands. It's just technique.

Here's how I do it with 99 double sleeved:
https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/83 ... GkhV0ZRGNQ

I'll try to snap a video or something later of the Ephara hard inner sleeve method :)

edit: Shuffling perfect hard sleeved Ephara
https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/-D ... lWJpuRS3DT

I am not a good shuffler and I have small hands and I still did 7 shuffles in ~40 seconds after having not done it in 3 months. I demonstrate the two different methods I've used. The latter method is the one I am least practiced at.
I have average sized hands and used to be a good shuffler, but since my bicycle crash I cannot even sort through my bulk unc/ommons without pain. I definitely see more people split their decks or pile shuffle than try to do all 99.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

umtiger wrote:
3 years ago
DirkGently wrote:
3 years ago
I'm not sure there's any productive ground to be covered here - I'm looking at my cards and I don't see anything. Not sure what I can tell you since it doesn't sound like you're willing to listen.
I'm quite sure I could just point the same statement towards you. Whenever, I disagree with you, my goal isn't to change your mind since you equally don't seem willing to listen either. I'm just going to post my side and let other people decide for themselves.

I used to buy and sell cards a lot. So condition used to matter to me even more. If you don't double sleeve, the card is exposed where the sleeve opens at the top. Sleeves get really dirty, is it really that too hard to imagine that cards would also get just a little dirty where it's exposed? The same junk that shows up on sleeves will start to show on the top of cards but in a lesser form.
Hey, I'll believe that it's possible to get a card dirty with only a single sleeve. All I'm saying is that, for me, they aren't.

Having looked through more cards, for some of my extremely heavily played cards (my fetches, for example) if I hold it up at the right angle to the light I can see some tiny specks of dust, but for the most part they clean off pretty easily. And without looking for them specifically they're invisible. These are cards that have been played for ~4 hours per week for almost 10 years. Anything that's not getting auto-included into every deck I build, I can't see anything at all even under ideal lighting.
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Rumpy5897
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 years ago

The popularity of double sleeving thing might have originated as an echo chamber from some prominent content creators, e.g. TCC. I chose to get in on it when building my first deck, as it featured such egregiously expensive cards as a ten euro Kiki, and stuck around since. I don't mind doing it, it's just a bit of extra faff when sleeving a deck up, and it grants mental comfort that I'm doing a thing to protect the cardboard.

And yeah, old damaged cards are great for savings, and have some quaint charm to them. I recently got the ugly duckling Grim Tutor on MCM, which was like half cost of the other ones on account of coming with a garish black border drawn in by some kid with a marker. All old cards come with history, but that sort of crap really gets you thinking about it.
 
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