Yorion, Sky Nomad - Let's brew!

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

Sooo this happened and everyone's grumpy about it being a poor companion. Well, it's the new most powerful Azorius blink commander, so let's brew :)




So we've got all kinds of ridiculous doozies to spam blink once our combo of: fast blinker + Yorion, sky nomad gets going--

Fast blinks
Fast blink with a spell (plus a mana rock that lets you cast it) Stupid blinking things that aren't even creatures so don't care about torpor orb.
Stupid blinking things that let you do really powerful things over and over again

Basically almost all stupid brago tech now lets you achieve way more advantage faster without going infinite; instead of once a turn cycle you do it 4 times a turn cycle, as long as you can assemble a secondary blink piece.

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 4 years ago

When I first saw Yorion, my initial instinct was that it is a snap include in Brago, King Eternal - effectively does everything Brago does, but as an ETB effect. Not sure how I feel about swapping out the commander entirely, but certainly could be worth consideration. I suppose the fundamental question is which is better - an ETB trigger, or a combat damage trigger? I wouldn't immediately say that it's clear that one is inherently better than the other.

One thing I will say is that needing to deal combat damage with Brago is certainly a downside - if Brago gets killed or blocked, you don't get any triggers. You'll often want to run Lightning Greaves or another source of haste to help with this. On the other hand, dealing combat damage repeatedly is inherently possible to do, while Yorion needs an additional blinker to perform repeatedly. Sometimes, you won't draw a blinker, or it gets killed, and your looping gets blocked.

Another thing I'll call out are the different timings - Yorion returning things at end of turn vs Brago returning things during combat. Yorion is much better for protecting your stuff... but having everything present to act as a blocker isn't irrelevant either, nor is the ability to draw cards immediately off Mulldrifter or another effect. However, the biggest difference I would say is their interactions with mana rocks. I believe that one of Brago's strongest usages is his ability to act as a Dramatic Reversal and untap mana rocks, effectively acting as a mana doubler. Getting mana rocks back at end of turn means you can only use the mana on your opponents' turns, and not your own.

Sequencing for Brago vs Yorion also functions somewhat differently. With Brago, you can play the cards you wish to blink either before or after him - as long as they're present during combat, they can get blinked. However, Yorion can exclusively blink permanents you play out before it. This means that playing it out on an empty board is significantly weaker, and cards costing more than it (like Exclusion Ritual and Spine of Ish Sah) are harder to blink. An of course, this is all ignoring Brago being a mana cheaper - it's pretty feasible to play him out turn 2 off Sol Ring or turn 3 off Azorius Signet, but that's harder to do with Yorion (and, again, you probably wouldn't want to play it out earlier anyway).

(and of course, if we want to go exclusively by power level, Brago's ability to combo with Strionic Resonator is likely stronger than Yorion's extreme difficulty in going infinite due to being a delayed trigger)

Anyway, those are my thoughts - Yorion and Brago decks will probably end up looking pretty similar, but they do have some interesting differences. Yorion is capable of generating more blinks in a best-case scenario, but I believe that Brago will be easier to use.

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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

I think if you want to try to go infinite the best way is probably cards you'd be playing (except the warps) anyway, with a package like:
The infinite turns with a mnemonic wall is pretty old but yorion+arch+walk+resto/felidar is a pretty easy thing to set up in the grand scheme of things, especially since it can be sitting out there except for the warp.

The whole ghostly flicker + archaeomancer + palinchron is a pretty easy one that has just goodstuff applications too of using Palinchron as a wilderness reclamation.

A nice thing is you can also use sac outlet packages, since with karmic guide or brought back (+rocks/archaeomancer) you can leverage Yorion triggers to make a a yosei loop potentially too. Not sure that's ideal but it might work well.

Similar stuff with sun titan and various stax rocks I guess.

Stuff like "bunch of mana rocks + eldrazi displacer" might also work as functionally infinite.

Generally speaking I think Yorion's value level is a lot higher than Brago, especially since it can pass the turn with mana rocks up the turn it drops.

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Post by gilrad » 4 years ago

It should also be worth noting that Sakashima the impostor and spark double can both be used to set up blink engines, with the added advantage that if they end up redundant at any point in the game they still act as clones.

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Post by Cyberium » 4 years ago

I think exiling permanents until end of turn allow you to do a board wipe without fear, unlike Brago.

Yurion → Exile your artifact/enchantment → Cleasing Nova → Your stuff return to play at EoT.

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Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

Some of these have already been mentioned, but here is the suite of "exile return to battlefield".
Flickerwisp, Felidar Guardian, Fiend Hunter, Glimmerpoint Stag, Restoration Angel, Wispweaver Angel, Sakashima the Impostor, Spark Double, Parallax Wave, Skybind.

I'm just going to write out loud the sequencing to wrap my head around timing;
1.) Cast Yorion, Sky Nomad exiling Flickerwisp.
2.) Flickerwisp returns at end of turn, exiling Yorion, Sky Nomad.
Because its already end of turn, need to wait until opponents next end of turn.
3.) Opponents end of turn, return Yorion, Sky Nomad, exiling Flickerwisp.
Because its already end of turn, need to wait until opponents next end of turn.
Loop to 2.

You'll get a setup where you'll have alternative opponents turns where Yorion, Sky Nomad is in play by itself, then all your other nonland permanents on the next turn, rinse repeat.
So if it might that the "board wipe" opponent lucks out, depending on number of players.
But on that same note, if you were relying on artifact mana to hold up for disruption like counterspells, you might also luck out with the opponent going off.
You can't change the order, and depending on number of players it might change who gets what on turns.
Anyway its quite a dominant element.

Cloud of Faeries, Peregrine Drake, Parallax Tide, Treachery are musts so that you have mana available to cast spells during opponents turns.
This means that you don't have to lean on artifact mana during an opponents turn when they are exiled.

Because its such an amazing setup, I wouldn't play anything else over 3 mana, rather than higher cost/higher up side that might be tempting.
Protection; Curator's Ward, Cloudform,
Draw; Omen of the Sea, Wall of Omens, Fate Foretold, Fblthp, the Lost, Champion of Wits, Induced Amnesia, Spreading Seas, Oath of Jace, Stupefying Touch, Watcher for Tomorrow, Whirlpool Rider, Sisay's Ingenuity, Sea Gate Oracle,
Tutors; Spellseeker, Recruiter of the Guard, Trinket Mage, Knight of the White Orchid,
Removal; Act of Authority, Stern Proctor, Gilded Drake, Reality Acid.
Hand disruption; Vendilion Clique.
Scry; Thassa's Oracle, Faerie Seer, Witching Well.
Graveyard; Snapcaster Mage.

Gilded Drake isn't controlled by you, but if you have Parallax Wave or Skybind setup its a blow out.

Declaration of Naught, Gideon's Intervention, Nevermore, Null Chamber has that interesting dynamic where you can name cards (certainly commander as one) when they come into play at end of a turn, to shut off next opponent, but then the next guy won't have to worry about them.

If you go with the plan of blinking out artifacts and/or using land untappers then you'll want to be able to cast cards with flash, because you'll be drawing so many cards, make sense to use opponents turns to cast cards.
Leyline of Anticipation, Vedalken Orrery, Winding Canyons
Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage, Shimmer Myr depending on configuration.

Some number of board wipes as you can get around most of it with a clear board yourself. However going back to the alternative sequence of whats in play, you might get stuck with all your permanents in play in your turn.
Rout allows you to time it at least.

Honestly Brago is looking like a second-class citizen here.



On a different note.
Astral Slide, Astral Drift, Escape Protocol plus cycling goodies.

The neat thing about Escape Protocol is that you can blink at instant speed, meaning you can exile all your other permanents to save them from a board wipe or whatever.

These are cycling cards in Azorius I think are "good enough".
Akroma's Vengeance, Cast Out, Censor, Cloud of Faeries, Complicate, Countervailing Winds, Curator of Mysteries, Decree of Justice, Eternal Dragon, Forsake the Worldly, Hieroglyphic Illumination, Lay Claim, Mage's Guile, Miscalculation, Nimble Obstructionist, Rebuild, Rescind, Traumatic Visions, Vizier of Tumbling Sands.
Ash Barrens, Blasted Landscape, Desert of the Mindful, Desert of the True, Drifting Meadow, Irrigated Farmland, Lonely Sandbar, Remote Isle, Secluded Steppe.

New Perspectives, Fluctuator as support cards.

Spellseeker getting counterspells and further cycling cards.
I only listed 3 cycling cards that have cmc 2 or less as instants or sorcery, so you could add Angelsong, Clear, Gilded Light, Wipe Clean as additional fuel for this combo.
Archaeomancer will allow you to do this as well.

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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

The cycling blink stuff is definitely insanely powerful with Yorian, might be something I try there instead of the Ephara blink deck I was thinking of since he's ridiculously strong with it.

I kinda like how yorion + peregrine drake (et al) is basically build your own seedborn muse. It reminds me that:
Are available as repeatable blink engines, the former of which already goes infinite with those blinky guys.

But I kinda dig how the cycling effects work since they're far more resilient to hate pieces.

Still torpor orb in particular is pretty bad for us since it shuts off Yorion's etb, but if we have enough things that work around that (e.g. exclusion ritual we can probably just remove it. That is one big advantage Brago has is being very resilient to orb, but many of his best targets are still etb creatures.

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Post by umtiger » 4 years ago

pokken wrote:
4 years ago
Still torpor orb in particular is pretty bad for us since it shuts off Yorion's etb, but if we have enough things that work around that (e.g. exclusion ritual we can probably just remove it. That is one big advantage Brago has is being very resilient to orb, but many of his best targets are still etb creatures.
Yeah, Brago is also insane with Planeswalkers. Brago is a great all-purpose deck. Two-color, with counter/removal, resilient to hate. Can be built as a 6 and still playable against 9's.

Maybe the decks will be different enough that it'll be worth having a Brago deck and a separate Yorion deck.

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Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

pokken wrote:
4 years ago
The cycling blink stuff is definitely insanely powerful with Yorian, might be something I try there instead of the Ephara blink deck I was thinking of since he's ridiculously strong with it.
I didn't list some of the new cycling cards. These are good, Dismantling Wave, Neutralize, Reconnaissance Mission.

You want to play Oblivion Ring and Fiend Hunter.
The reason is that with Felidar Guardian, Restoration Angel, Wispweaver Angel, Parallax Wave combos, you'll be able to permanently exile opponents cards because of the timing rules.
Yorion exiles Felidar Guardian and Oblivion Ring, then return at end of turn.
With Oblivion Ring exile ability of the stack, Felidar Guardian exiles Yorion.
Yorion then exiles Felidar Guardian and Oblivion Ring again.
So because the Oblivion Ring has left play with the exile ability still on the stack, it doesn't matter that its left play.
Last edited by darrenhabib 4 years ago, edited 2 times in total.

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

You're thinking oring and fiend hunter I think. The vanishing light and banisher priest templates I don't think work that way.

They have some Oracle text that says things never leave play if the priest or light are gone when the ability resolves iirc

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Post by Mimicvat » 4 years ago

I played a first draft of Yorion today. Pretty much just every decent creature based flicker effect and a ton of ETB, with Panharmonicon and Eerie Interlude etc effects too. Every game lead to a delayed loop of Yorion entering on end steps and flickering a ton of junk. Loops pretty hard with any number of creatures lol
Currently building: ww Bruna, the Fading Light (card advantage tribal / reanimator)
Main decks;
r Neheb, Big Red Champion g Yeva's Mono Green Control, b Ayara's Aristocrats rb Greven, Predator Captain the One Punch Man, ugw Derevri, Empirical Tactician Aggro,rwbu Tymna & Kraum's Saboteurs, wbg Kondo & Tymna's Hatebears wugTuvasa's Silver Bullets, urBrudiclad does Brudiclad thingsgubSidisi, Brood Tyrant (lantern control)

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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

Mimicvat wrote:
4 years ago
I played a first draft of Yorion today. Pretty much just every decent creature based flicker effect and a ton of ETB, with Panharmonicon and Eerie Interlude etc effects too. Every game lead to a delayed loop of Yorion entering on end steps and flickering a ton of junk. Loops pretty hard with any number of creatures lol
That is pretty much what I expected -- it should be really consistent to set up and only take a bare minimum of countermagic to defend it or make it nearly impossible to break out of. If you get the fast-flicker etb creature they never really have a chance to wipe anything but Yorion.

I will say that the decks probably want as many archaeomancer effects as possible to force the infinite-rift / infinite brought back loops.

One concern I have is that Yorion might just be too overwhelming for anything but a powerful meta.

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Post by Mimicvat » 4 years ago

Yeah forgot about the wraths. That became a thing pretty quickly. Overall it was pretty gross which pisses me off because I want a flicker deck but they are always either pure garbo or like this

On the upside, I guess we've found a powerful mono-white general finally =/
Currently building: ww Bruna, the Fading Light (card advantage tribal / reanimator)
Main decks;
r Neheb, Big Red Champion g Yeva's Mono Green Control, b Ayara's Aristocrats rb Greven, Predator Captain the One Punch Man, ugw Derevri, Empirical Tactician Aggro,rwbu Tymna & Kraum's Saboteurs, wbg Kondo & Tymna's Hatebears wugTuvasa's Silver Bullets, urBrudiclad does Brudiclad thingsgubSidisi, Brood Tyrant (lantern control)

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

I'm definitely putting it in mono white golos. :)

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