Otrimi, the Ever-Playful (Let's Brew!)

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Airi
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Post by Airi » 4 years ago

I'm going to apologize in advance for how sparse this opening post is. It's late, I'm on mobile, and let's be honest: I'm not particularly good at these.

Otrimi, the Ever-Playful is probably one of the cutest things (visually and mechanically!) WotC's printed.

I do not have a prepped list of cards because this isnt a color combination I play particularly often, but I do know that one question is going to be keeping the balance between how many mutate cards vs. how many just good creatures to mutate on to.

I do realize that Ikoria hasn't spoiled fully, so it's hard to judge what we have to work with as far as mutate goes, but I think there's enough here to find some cute synergies.

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Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

I'll just start by listing out the mutate creatures in Sultai so far; You only get the triggers when you specifically cast them. There is also no real way to cheat casting them either, say with Omniscience as you specifically have to select a "mutate cost".

So because they are not cost efficient type creatures in general any cost reduction is going to be welcome. The reality is that often you are just going to be casting a single mutate creature each turn, and not able to do anything else.
They have printed Pollywog Symbiote to help.

Here Heartless Summoning is the best single card option.

Other options are; Nylea, Keen-Eyed, Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma, Krallenhorde Howler
Cloud Key, Helm of Awakening, Planar Gate, Seal of the Guildpact, Stone Calendar, The Immortal Sun.

Of note Gargos, Vicious Watcher combined with Arcane Adaptation or Conspiracy will be a 4 mana cost reduction.
Also mutate targets, so "Gargos" would fight a creature each time.
The other advantage of Arcane Adaptation and Conspiracy is that you can then use Urza's Incubator for cost reduction.

In theory you want to be stacking them all up on one creature, so that you can trigger each mutate ability again. This obviously means a lot of "eggs in one basket" and being very vulnerable to removal.

I've already mentioned in another post about using creatures that can be returned to hand as the original target of the mutation. The reason is that you can return them to hand to then be able to cast again to trigger the mutate.
Here are Sultai options that allow you to return at instant speed, this also means that you can save the creatures from dying.
Hibernation Sliver, Cavern Harpy, Wydwen, the Biting Gale, Darting Merfolk, Fae of Wishes, Fleeting Aven, Fleeting Image, Mercurial Pretender, Mirozel, Sakashima the Impostor, Skywing Aven, Thalakos Scout, Foul Familiar.

The example use is say with Hibernation Sliver and mutating Gemrazer onto it to destroy and artifact or enchantment.
You can return the Hibernation Sliver along with the Gemrazer back to hand, so you can keep recasting them for removal.

Also hexproof can be a good way to protect, Silhana Ledgewalker being the poster child for this idea.

Rainbow Efreet is also a potential target for the mother-of-all-mutations, as it just means you can protect it, unlike exile and back to play effects or whatever which will not hold the creatures as a single mutation.

The thing with Otrimi, the Ever-Playful is that its returning a mutate card from graveyard, so how does that card get there?
You have to think in reusable ways, and this is tricky because you need to attach mutate creatures to another creature, so lets say you have a sacrifice outlet to put the creature into the graveyard, you'll be down a creature resource even with Otrimi, the Ever-Playful ability as it was at least 2 creatures that had to be put into your graveyard.
So it might be that you want some sort of recursion creature like Reassembling Skeleton or Bloodghast as throw away creatures.
Otherwise token creature generating would help not going down on resources as well.

Buried Alive, Intuition, Survival of the Fittest are musts here for fueling Otrimi targets.
You can configure the deck to have only a certain number of basics so that Hermit Druid is effective at fueling your graveyard.

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Post by MeowZeDung » 4 years ago

My 8yo son has decided that otrimi is the pre con he wants, and I've been trying to warn him it won't be nearly as straight forward as the gishath deck I built him. Well, it will be a chance for him to least about x for 1s I suppose.

I agree with darren about the need for bounce to mutate as much as possible. Wydwen in the pre con was a solid include by wizards.

I'll add that hexproof creatures will be quite useful to mitigate the risk of mutate. Otrimi doesn't get Geist of Saint Traft, Dream trawler or Dragonlord Ojutai like Vadrok, Apex of Thunder will, unfortunately, but there's still good options:

Cheap ones, like Gladecover Scout and Slippery Bogle. Ones that grow, like Lumberknot and Witchstalker. Fatties, like Carnage Tyrant. Interesting ones, like Lazav, Dimir Mastermind. Convoluted but hard to block/kill ones, like Prognostic Sphinx and Elusive Tormentor.

Otrimi being a big trampler also has me thinking deathtouch will overperform. Xathrid Slyblade might be too risky, but Reaper of the Wilds seems great. Nightveil Predator is hard on the manabase, but soooooo worth it here IMO.

Looking forward to seeing what people brew.
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Post by ilovesaprolings » 4 years ago

darrenhabib wrote:
4 years ago
The thing with Otrimi, the Ever-Playful is that its returning a mutate card from graveyard, so how does that card get there?
I don't think you will dredge too much with Otrimi. Mutate's biggest weakness is removal so i think it's better to use Otrimi as a protection against that.
MeowZeDung wrote:
4 years ago
Xathrid Slyblade might be too risky
You can't use it, it's a human

I'm thinking about cards like progenitor mimic and followed footsteps. Mutate give you a big payoff if you can make a huge stack, but it also makes you very vulnerable.

Imagine this: you played dirge bat and was able to mutate cavern whisperer and migratory greathorn onto it. You have a card-advantage monster ready to get mutated even more, but a single removal will destroy your plans.
You play progenitor mimic and suddenly have two monstrosities, which will turn into 3 on your upkeep. You know have many targets for your 4th mutation, so opponents won't be able to reset your mutate stacks with a single removal. You can for example put sawtusk demolisher onto the original pile and Otrimi onto the progenitor's token and still trigger all the mutations.

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Post by Airi » 4 years ago

I do think infect has some potential as well, particularly creatures like Blight Mamba or Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon that also come with some protection.

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Post by ilovesaprolings » 4 years ago

Airi wrote:
4 years ago
I do think infect has some potential as well, particularly creatures like Blight Mamba or Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon that also come with some protection.
I do not find infect particularly fun, but anyway the best target (blighted agent) isn't available. Also i think that Brokkos would be more suited than Otrimi for such a build.

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Post by Wallycaine » 4 years ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
4 years ago
My 8yo son has decided that otrimi is the pre con he wants, and I've been trying to warn him it won't be nearly as straight forward as the gishath deck I built him. Well, it will be a chance for him to least about x for 1s I suppose.

I agree with darren about the need for bounce to mutate as much as possible. Wydwen in the pre con was a solid include by wizards.

I'll add that hexproof creatures will be quite useful to mitigate the risk of mutate. Otrimi doesn't get Geist of Saint Traft, Dream trawler or Dragonlord Ojutai like Vadrok, Apex of Thunder will, unfortunately, but there's still good options:

Cheap ones, like Gladecover Scout and Slippery Bogle. Ones that grow, like Lumberknot and Witchstalker. Fatties, like Carnage Tyrant. Interesting ones, like Lazav, Dimir Mastermind. Convoluted but hard to block/kill ones, like Prognostic Sphinx and Elusive Tormentor.

Otrimi being a big trampler also has me thinking deathtouch will overperform. Xathrid Slyblade might be too risky, but Reaper of the Wilds seems great. Nightveil Predator is hard on the manabase, but soooooo worth it here IMO.

Looking forward to seeing what people brew.
Ooh, Elusive Tormenter is extra strong because you can just put the mist on the bottom of your pile, and then you get a 6/6 indestructible, hexproof, can't be blocked commander, or whatever other mutate card you're using. Darksteel Myr strikes me as another creature with a strong ability held back by his stats, which Mutate overrides.

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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

I love that it's cheaper with mutate. A 6/6 trampler for 4 that also recycles mutaters is very nice. My inclination with this guy is to at the minimum play the clones that don't steal its name, so they can protect it, and also to play body double to recover it.

So my contribution is: Obviously you want a pile of the good mutate cards and the usual ramp and efficient removal packages, but in terms of actually trying to win the game it's hard to say.

Mutating some huge stuff like pathbreaker ibex feels potentially fun.

I kinda like the idea of playing all the lieutenants just because it's cute -- mutate loyal drake feels funny and cool. I think the black one gives deathtouch which goes nicely with trample.

glissa, the traitor is a sick pile of keywords to mutate -- first strike/death touch/trample is basically unblockable but meaner.

buried alive and entomb both seem really good, as reanimating otrimi feels like a useful way to protect it and also to get a big sack of keywords in the yard.

shared summons is probably exceptional at getting a nasty pair of keywords on cheap dudes.

greater good feels obvious I guess, and rishkar's expertise and any of the power draw effects are going to be awesome
since your commander's a 6/6 for 4.

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Post by Hawk » 4 years ago

It was mentioned in the spoiler thread but not here - Otrimi is great with anything that does something "equal to its power". Cold-eyed Selkie is the spiciest card as it has some light evasion and the best text in magic, but Cephalid Constable, Viridian Joiner, and Needle Specter are all also interesting.

Also interesting are phantoms like Phantom Centaur - Otrimi gets the text and the counters, but remains as an unkillable 6/6 trample (possibly also with Protection from Black or whatever) even after he spends all his counters. Sadly we're in the wrong colors for Phantom Nishoba or Phantom Flock, so Centuar and maybe Phantom Nantuko are the only ones really worth trying, but still interesting.

I suspect going full Mutate is a trap, and Otrimi's text is a trap. An Otrimi deck will for sure run the best mutate cards, but I imagine the two directions are...

- Full Voltron, utilizing cheap evasive/resilient/infect dudes like Plague Stinger, Silhana Ledgewalker, Blight Mamba, Phyrexian Crusader, Thalakos Scout, and Elusive Tormentor. You only need 2-4 hits, and a few more mutates or powerful auras and equipment will quickly spell doom.

- Full value, with cost reducers, slightly more mutates, and the aforementioned "equal to its power" type effects and other durdly nonsense.

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Post by ilovesaprolings » 4 years ago

Hawk wrote:
4 years ago
I suspect going full Mutate is a trap, and Otrimi's text is a trap. An Otrimi deck will for sure run the best mutate cards, but I imagine the two directions are...
If you want to go full voltron, why not brokkos? He can dodge the commander tax pretty easily.

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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

I think honestly that cloning it in general is probably a really good strategy? The text is really good if otrimi dies and you can then swing with a copy of it, get it back and mutate it again.

Say you put otrimi on the bottom of a regal behemoth or something, then clone it, it's another regal behemoth that has otrimi's text?

That's still speculative, but I think it will probably work and be quite gross.

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Post by Hawk » 4 years ago

ilovesaprolings wrote:
4 years ago
Hawk wrote:
4 years ago
I suspect going full Mutate is a trap, and Otrimi's text is a trap. An Otrimi deck will for sure run the best mutate cards, but I imagine the two directions are...
If you want to go full voltron, why not brokkos? He can dodge the commander tax pretty easily.
That's a good point - for some reason I thought Brokkos, Apex of Forever was a bit smaller, at least making it an argument, but he's got literally the exact same statline. While the first casting being one more is a bit rough, being able to dodge the Commander tax is a huge deal for a deck like this.

Which then means that Otrimi is likely to be better grinding value out of stuff like Seklie and clones.

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Post by ilovesaprolings » 4 years ago

pokken wrote:
4 years ago
Say you put otrimi on the bottom of a regal behemoth or something, then clone it, it's another regal behemoth that has otrimi's text?
Yeah, it works this way

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Post by Airi » 4 years ago

I think the call is to go for a mix of voltron and value. You do have to close out the game somehow.

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Post by Wallycaine » 4 years ago

ilovesaprolings wrote:
4 years ago
pokken wrote:
4 years ago
Say you put otrimi on the bottom of a regal behemoth or something, then clone it, it's another regal behemoth that has otrimi's text?
Yeah, it works this way
Building on this, if you're already planning on running a bunch of the non-legendary mutators, you can use that combination to put the mutate creatures on legends you want to clone, and clone them that way. So for example you can put Cavern Whisperer on top of your Ascendant Evincar, and then Progenitor Mimic away into a pile of 4/6 flying lords/anti-lords.

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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

Pretty good way to get a bunch of copies of nezahal, primal tide too. Animate it, put a mutate creature on it, then clone it :P

Lots of steps, but pretty cute.

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Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

You can target lands that can become creatures or "manlands" like; Lumbering Falls, Hissing Quagmire, Creeping Tar Pit, Faerie Conclave, Treetop Village, Spawning Pool, Mutavault, Inkmoth Nexus, Mobilized District, Blinkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory.

The advantages of this is that when they stop becoming a creature, the mutations still remain. This protects from sorcery spell removal, even your own stuff like maybe casting Damnation or Toxic Deluge.
There are also a lot of removal that say "nonland" like Cyclonic Rift.
Also lands are easier to justify as a resource in your deck construction, as you don't have to cast a creature.
The downside is that you need to spend mana activating it each turn if wanting to use it, and also then prone to land destruction.

Undying and Persist are pretty good as all the creatures come back into play as individual creatures (with the +1/+1 or -1/-1 counters). You don't get any mutation triggers, but at least you get to fill the board with some creatures, so not a total loss. You might even have a counters sub-theme in the deck specifically to use this.
Best examples imo; Young Wolf, Strangleroot Geist, Endling, Glen Elendra Archmage.

Also on that note, in theory if you have mutated Relentless Dead, then you can return all the creatures back to your hand when it dies.

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Post by Cyberium » 4 years ago

The Great Henge would be a good addition given how early Otrimi allows you to play it, and let you draw when you have new creatures entering battlefield.

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Post by DaButtshark » 4 years ago

I've been doing some play-testing and honestly hydras/creatures that enter with counters feel very strong. Things like Yorvo, Lord of Garenbrig and Polukranos, Unchained seem like over-performers for the voltron plan. Even things like Reyhan, Last of the Abzan and Plaxcaster Frogling allow you to drop a turn-4 "hasted" 9/9 commander with added value.

Hydras seem to perform well due to their flexibility as an early drop or self-contained threat later on. Primordial Hydra can come down t3 and slowly grow your otrimi or be a separate threat post t6. Even rolling out a Mistcutter Hydra with your commander in play allows you to mutate Sawtusk Demolisher giving it a 6/6 boost and trample.

P.S., I managed to miss this AMA a bit ago, but a lot of rules interactions have been declared already (like undying bringing back the whole mutate stack). A summary can be found here.

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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

predator ooze is one I keep forgetting that'd be fun in that vein.

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Post by ilovesaprolings » 4 years ago

I'm trying to build Otrimi but it's hard. Sometimes i get good mutate "basis"... but only basis and no mutators.
Other times i get all mutators and no good creatures to attach them to.
It's to find a good balance. How many basis/mutators do you think the should have? How many draw engine, and which ones are you using?

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Post by Airi » 4 years ago

I went all in on mutate, and made the rest of my creatures predominately heatproof bases for Otrimi. Admittedly, I'm on the super casual side with this because I don't have a ton of draw/removal.

If you want mutate as a theme though, you need enough of both it and base creatures to at least start the game with one/two in your opening hand.

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Post by ilovesaprolings » 4 years ago

I'm trying to balance many things
first are the classic ramp/removal/card advantage cards
Then there are the mutators. Right now i'm running all of them except 2-3 inefficient, expensive ones (like archipelagore)
I'm also running some "base" for mutate like troll ascetic, mortus strider and silhana ledgewalker.
Lastly, i'm running some copy cards like supplant form, progenitor mimic and spawnwrithe. They are very good with mutate.

I'm having hard time finding the right balance of all this elements

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Post by Kavu Enthusiast » 4 years ago

So for whatever reason Otrimi makes me think of Koh from Avatar The last Airbender (Koh the Face Stealer for any of you that somehow haven't watched one of the greatest animated shows ever made). It's probably the playful/trickster/devious nightmare beast thing that can mutate under a card aspect of him. I'm probably going to try to brew a deck that has some thematic and mechanical elements that fall in line with Koh because it seems cool and unique and still possible of working well. Particularly the idea of stealing faces and the fact that he is essentially a nightmare horror demon entity gives really good hard and bright lines for the restrictions. The way I see it if you mutate him under any creature he essentially steals their face and he can steal any number of faces at once.

The interesting part is going to be making a distinct from Volrath the Shapestealer who is already largely about pretending to be other creatures while still sort of being himself. I think the main distinction other than trying to stick to specific creature types that fit with the established restrictions If you were, stealing creatures via clones and/or cloning creatures after you've created a mutate stack of one might be an interesting way to abuse the stacking of multiple creature abilities on top of each other that has the inherent weakness of putting your eggs in one basket by making copies of that one basket. Whereas Volrath can only be one creature at time he specifically benefits from abusing abilities on creatures that are small that would be busted on a 7/5; the strategy of stacking mutates and cloning them benefits from stitching together creatures with multiple static effects or abilities that shouldn't interact and putting them together and then making copies of them sort of similar to The Mimeoplasm.
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Post by Kavu Enthusiast » 4 years ago

ilovesaprolings wrote:
4 years ago
You play progenitor mimic and suddenly have two monstrosities, which will turn into 3 on your upkeep.
It should be noted that if you mutate a card on top of the token from progenitor it's not longer a token and will replicate itself as well. Obviously also the same thing happens if you clone a progenitor token with a mutate under it, the clone will replicate itself.

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