Xyris, the Writhing Storm (Let's brew!)

User avatar
Cyberium
Posts: 837
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Cyberium » 4 years ago

Xyris, the Writhing Storm

This thread is for ideas on how to utilize Xyris's versatility and political ploy.

Draw/Hand/Wheel
Approximate Total Cost:



Versatile
Approximate Total Cost:

Possible deck theme are:

Wheels/Mutual draws
Handsize/mana lock down
Damage doublers
Token theme
Snake tribal

Obviously the bigger Xyris is, the stronger his trigger would be. With set up, you might end the game with a single wheel/Prosperity.
Last edited by Cyberium 3 years ago, edited 15 times in total.

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6283
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 4 years ago

The core tension of this commander is going to be: How do I stop people from using all the cards they draw to kill me or stop what I'm doing?

No one is going to buy "hey let me help you draw some cards" after the first couple times, so they're likely going to want to kill Xyris.

I think the most natural thing to do is to just play a lot of interaction. This feels like a 10+ counterspell deck to me. You have to stop what people are doing and protect your commander both.

Mana denial is an avenue, but the problem with mana denial as a strategy is that when you refill everyone's hand or let someone draw 9 off of a fat Xyris, someone is gonna have answers for your stax pieces. So if you do mana denial I think it is far better to do it with stuff like:
But I don't think that is going to work out all that well, not sure why exactly just feels like not ideal to me. Mostly on account of I think Korvold does that better and it's also not that fun.

I do think I'd play arcane laboratory and maybe collector ouphe but I think that's about as far as I would go with the 'how do I deal with everyone having a bunch of cards' problem.

My instinct is to play just, maybe 20 pieces of removal and counterspells, and then run a fairly small number of payoff cards - something like:
And mostly just try to kill everyone with snakes otherwise. Feels like it should be pretty easy to just make a crapload of them and?

Dunno though, still noodling on it.

User avatar
Cyberium
Posts: 837
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Cyberium » 4 years ago

pokken wrote:
4 years ago
The core tension of this commander is going to be: How do I stop people from using all the cards they draw to kill me or stop what I'm doing?

No one is going to buy "hey let me help you draw some cards" after the first couple times, so they're likely going to want to kill Xyris.

I think the most natural thing to do is to just play a lot of interaction. This feels like a 10+ counterspell deck to me. You have to stop what people are doing and protect your commander both.
There are currently two avenues in terms of snake production: One person draws a lot, or everyone draws a lot. You get more tokens on the latter, but also more problems to deal with later. It's possible to wait till event horizon to cast a wheel that can kill everyone, while going for combat-draw before that, to minimize future threats.

If we go the Wheel route, then instead of running 10+ counterspells it might be more feasible to run 6+ counters then fill the rest with mass removal, so you can remove multiple threats with one hit.
pokken wrote:
4 years ago

Mana denial is an avenue, but the problem with mana denial as a strategy is that when you refill everyone's hand or let someone draw 9 off of a fat Xyris, someone is gonna have answers for your stax pieces. So if you do mana denial I think it is far better to do it with stuff like:
But I don't think that is going to work out all that well, not sure why exactly just feels like not ideal to me. Mostly on account of I think Korvold does that better and it's also not that fun.
You suggested some nice cards here. Wildfire has the risk of killing your snakes but you can always cast it before you do your first attack.

Korvold doesn't create political schemes like Xyris. You can literally play solitaire with Korvold. I'm sure some will be willing to take 3ish damage form Xyris for that many cards if they are in need of answers.
pokken wrote:
4 years ago
I do think I'd play arcane laboratory and maybe collector ouphe but I think that's about as far as I would go with the 'how do I deal with everyone having a bunch of cards' problem.
Noted. The benefit of playing U/G is suppression and mana-dorks are both in the colors.
pokken wrote:
4 years ago
My instinct is to play just, maybe 20 pieces of removal and counterspells, and then run a fairly small number of payoff cards - something like:
And mostly just try to kill everyone with snakes otherwise. Feels like it should be pretty easy to just make a crapload of them and?

Dunno though, still noodling on it.
So in a way, play traditional control and let passive triggers do its job. I can live with that. Xyris has many potentials.

Thank you for all the ideas. Another route for Xyris could be "extra turns", since it will let you attack multiple times and allow your new snakes to attack too, bigger assault each round.

While counterproductive in token generation, Narset, Parter of Veils could be used in a pinch to shut off the wheel effect when it benefits you more to NOT let others draw.

User avatar
WizardMN
Posts: 1965
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 124
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Twin Cities
Contact:

Post by WizardMN » 4 years ago

I have a very rough outline of what I want my deck to be for this general. I have things like Barbed Shocker as well as Diviner Spirit. My though so far, based on a similar discussion held in the Unreleased thread, is to try to just make my tokens bigger and add in a few other cards to work with that. I am debating on:
Edric, Spymaster of Trest - takes the focus off us a little and still gives us tokens
Curse of Verbosity - does the same thing as Edric with the opponent getting fewer cards and us also drawing a card in addition to our token.
Ezuri, Claw of Progress - makes something huge each turn
Seshiro the Anointed - makes our snakes bigger and draws us more cards
The Locust God - creates even more tokens for us
Skullclamp - Works will with the tokens to keep our hands full as well as the God to create even more tokens.

I do also have Purphoros, Impact Tremors, and Goblin Bombardment (this is my main source of removal right now). And I am pretty sure I am going to go pretty heavy on the wheel/twister route.

Consecrated Sphinx seems exceptional here. I have though of Forced Fruition but I am not sure if that is really that good since it is 7 mana.

I also agree that either a lot of interaction or things like Arcane Laboratory are good cards to think of.

Kamahl, Craterhoof, and End-Raze Forerunners are my payoffs right now.

Keep in mind mine is a very rough draft, but this is what I have so far.

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6283
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 4 years ago

ludevic, necro-alchemist might actually be good as nother edric. I actually like that effect a lot here, make snakes keep people attacking others.

I really like the idea of focusing on using creatures over enchantments as much as possible because in green we can find creatures very easily -- and we have a huge chord of calling fuel as well.

Skullclamp actually as good as it is I think might be counterproductive - you are going to draw bajillions of cards off your commander so keeping the snakes around is probably better than drawing cards with them? Dunno though.

I really like sword of war and peace as a side note, if people's hands are full that's a great way to keep yourself alive and shorten the clock.

and as mentioned in the thread i think anvil of bogardan would be great.

It's really a bummer we can't play chains of mephistopheles lol :)

I was thinking about that red card that gives all your guys firebreathing and adds Red for each dude as potentially being fun too -- pump Xyris for lethal commander when you kill someone else.

User avatar
WizardMN
Posts: 1965
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 124
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Twin Cities
Contact:

Post by WizardMN » 4 years ago

I knew there was a partner like Edric but then I forgot to look for it. Thanks for reminding me :)

I am not sure how much tutoring I want but I agree with the sentiment. Especially if Cyberium goes more into that route. In any case, creatures are easier to interact with for green in terms of finding them.

You are probably right on Skullclamp. My thought was basically just trying to break the symmetry a little more. If they get cards, I want more cards. But, I think other things can do the same for us.

Sword seems pretty good as well. I will probably try that out.

Personally, I am shying away from Anvil for now but still a good set of cards to help fuel the commander without combat. I would love to play my Chains in this deck.

Dragonrage seems interesting though I think I would rather just use Purphoros ability over that. Shared Animosity seems like an even better version of that, which I know was mentioned above.

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6283
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 4 years ago

So there's a lot to be said for things that can only be interacted with via counterspell, which is kinda why I lean toward dragon throne of tarkir (although with this one they do get the equip window) and return of the wildspeaker and so on. When you're letting people draw tons of cards you're gonna have a hard time not being the focus of whatever removal they have.

If you go for lethal and they blow up our baloth or animosity or whatever payoff it's gonna be bad. I do like Hoof dad in this deck for that reason - esp. since we will likely be able to chord for it or hardcast it with tapping snakes etc.

I do think you're right htat Purph is too good not to play here; he's so resilient to removal and also his activated ability is sick.

User avatar
Sanity_Eclipse
Posts: 321
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 4 years ago

Dosan the Falling Leaf to limit interaction. Maybe Hall of Gemstone, but not sure how I feel about that.

Mana Breach, Manabarbs, Invader Parasite, Tunnel Ignus. So what if you're drawing? Ya need lands to play rocks and/or spells.

Mystic Snake for tribal synergy and interaction on the stack.

Fevered Visions to get a snake per opponent per turn, and to ideally shorten the clock with the potential damage. Impact Tremors etc as well. Khorvath's Fury for a selective wheel, if you need/want to help someone else out while also shortening the clock. Wheel and Deal is an interesting one. Cast it on opponent's EOT right before your turn for an instant army. (Assuming Xyris gives you a snake per card drawn by opponents, which looks to be the wording)

Inner Fire as a potentially crazy ritual.

I personally want to include Seismic Assault|10E and maybe a landfall / land recovery angle. Pondering that still.
More Decks
Show
Hide
- Lyra - Naru Meha - Chandra - Lovisa - Nissa -
- Lavinia X - Yuriko - Jhoira - Saheeli - Glissa - Lathril - Meren - Koma -
- Anafenza - Alela - Sen Triplets - Inalla - Sidisi -
- Breya -

User avatar
WizardMN
Posts: 1965
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 124
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Twin Cities
Contact:

Post by WizardMN » 4 years ago

@pokken
I think I agree with your mindset of wanting things that can't just be blown up. Those are good points and Return of the Wildspeaker is a good card here.

@Sanity_Eclipse
I like Fevered Visions a lot here. It is really close to Howling Mine but a) does damage b) we get a benefit from it in that we get to draw the first turn it is out (as well as get tokens) and c) opponents don't get the card until the end step. If I were to go with a Mine effect, this would be the first one in my list.

Khorvath's Fury also looks like a really good way to deal with someone and get a bunch of tokens. Let them draw a bunch of cards and then kill them while also having other players discard and draw.

Wheel and Deal also looks super good. I will probably try that too. And yes, the wording works the way you think it does :)

I think to @Cyberium's point, there are so many ways to build this deck that it is pretty open ended to what cards are included. Which is nice to see from a Temur general.

User avatar
Cyberium
Posts: 837
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Cyberium » 4 years ago

Thank you all for suggestions, I will soon create lists of cards to categorize them, then we might see even MORE combinations out of Xyris. I love versatile commanders.

Here is a deck from Jumbo Commander. His take its creature-centric and focuses on benefiting from wheeling.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/cards-du ... ing-storm/

User avatar
darrenhabib
Posts: 1812
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

Opposition to lock down opponents mana so they can't cast all the cards they draw.

I mean a Wheel of Fortune, Timetwister, etc is likely to produce 21 snake tokens in a 4 player game. I mean thats pretty crazy really.
Winds of Change, Jace's Archivist, Whirlpool Warrior, Day's Undoing, Memory Jar, Windfall, Reforge the Soul, Commit // Memory, Echo of Eons, Time Spiral, Diminishing Returns, Teferi's Puzzle Box, Incendiary Command, Molten Psyche, Time Reversal.

Earthcraft, Song of Freyalise, Cryptolith Rite are all insane and really the stand out for having access to Green, which The Locust God for example does not.

Other mana producers; Ashnod's Altar, Phyrexian Altar, Mana Echoes, Battle Hymn.

Moooar draw; Reconnaissance Mission, Bident of Thassa, Coastal Piracy, Kindred Discovery, Ohran Frostfang, Seshiro the Anointed.

Gaea's Cradle .. eat your heart out The Locust God. Definitely play Crop Rotation for that combo.

User avatar
WizardMN
Posts: 1965
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 124
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Twin Cities
Contact:

Post by WizardMN » 4 years ago

Those are fine suggestions except for one of them:

Day's Undoing results in 0 tokens since the turn ended.

Also, the main thing to keep in mind with Mana Echoes is that the damage trigger won't usually be as useful as you want for generating mana since you only have the current step to cast things. It can still be reasonable, just something to keep in mind.

ilovesaprolings
Posts: 833
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by ilovesaprolings » 4 years ago

Seshiro the anointed is a big lord that let you draw
There is also Shisato, whispering hunter if you want to gain style points by playing kamigawa cards
Ohran frostfang can also work with tokens
Shared animosity makes your Xyris bigger, the bigger the Xyris the bigger is the opponent's draw

User avatar
WizardMN
Posts: 1965
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 124
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Twin Cities
Contact:

Post by WizardMN » 4 years ago

ilovesaprolings wrote:
4 years ago
Shared animosity makes your Xyris bigger, the bigger the Xyris the bigger is the opponent's draw
I don't know why, but I stupidly forgot (or didn't realize I guess) that Xyris is a Snake :( I will likely be trying this card out too. I did have Shisato but he seems pretty bad overall so style points would really be the main reason to use him.

User avatar
Cyberium
Posts: 837
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Cyberium » 4 years ago

So it seems that snakes, mana denial, and wheel is like the best trip-combination we can have with Xyris. Dropping a Winter Orb after you have Opposition is recipe for hatred, and you will create more tokens than opponents can catch up.

Another card I think would be deadly is Words of Wind. You can skip your draws to make everyone bounce their permanents. You can just bounce your tokens, others will usually bounce real stuff.


User avatar
Cyberium
Posts: 837
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Cyberium » 4 years ago

Outcryqq wrote:
4 years ago
Maybe some cards to make sure he connects with an opponent? Rancor, key to the city come to mind.
Of course! You suffer little from Key since you will be drawing at least three!

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6283
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 4 years ago

Since he's flying I don't think I'd worry about having someone to hit. Just play removal and use that to kill their fliers.

User avatar
Cyberium
Posts: 837
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Cyberium » 4 years ago

pokken wrote:
4 years ago
Since he's flying I don't think I'd worry about having someone to hit. Just play removal and use that to kill their fliers.
I tested it out and found flyer tokens, especially from Jeskai's own arsenal, was very annoying. Rancor in itself is a good idea because it also increases Xyris's size while providing trample.

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6283
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 4 years ago

Cyberium wrote:
4 years ago
pokken wrote:
4 years ago
Since he's flying I don't think I'd worry about having someone to hit. Just play removal and use that to kill their fliers.
I tested it out and found flyer tokens, especially from Jeskai's own arsenal, was very annoying. Rancor in itself is a good idea because it also increases Xyris's size while providing trample.
I'm not sure what it is about it exactly, maybe it's the getting 2-for-1'd when you play it and losing your trample enabler? But it feels kinda loose to me. You can't really tutor for it in these colors so it's not super reliable, just something you draw into.

I'd rather play like a couple creature sources of trample or swords and goblin engineer / trophy mage I think. Even just running archetype of imagination or pathbreaker ibex or some other trample enabler. Then you can find your wincons with Finale/GSZ/Chord vs having to hope you draw rancor.

Another option is playing some land tutors and getting kessig wolf run, because gaea's cradle is insane in this deck anyway.

User avatar
darrenhabib
Posts: 1812
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

I don't think I see pump spells mentioned, which can be used to give Xyris, the Writhing Storm more power for more draw and snakes.
Become Immense, Invigorate, Vines of Vastwood.

User avatar
Cyberium
Posts: 837
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Cyberium » 4 years ago

darrenhabib wrote:
4 years ago
I don't think I see pump spells mentioned, which can be used to give Xyris, the Writhing Storm more power for more draw and snakes.
Become Immense, Invigorate, Vines of Vastwood.
If nothing else, Vines could certainly be a great protection. I will add them to list. Thx!

User avatar
Sanity_Eclipse
Posts: 321
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 4 years ago

WizardMN wrote:
4 years ago
I don't know why, but I stupidly forgot (or didn't realize I guess) that Xyris is a Snake :( I will likely be trying this card out too. I did have Shisato but he seems pretty bad overall so style points would really be the main reason to use him.
On the flip side (of typing), Whelming Wave and Serpent of Yawning Depths might be considerations too. Xenograft possibly (Name Leviathan obv, save your tokens mainly).

(Minor lore note, pretty sure Shisato was actually female. Depending on how heavy you go on tribal, no untapping on hit could be good though. Or just Nature's Will)
More Decks
Show
Hide
- Lyra - Naru Meha - Chandra - Lovisa - Nissa -
- Lavinia X - Yuriko - Jhoira - Saheeli - Glissa - Lathril - Meren - Koma -
- Anafenza - Alela - Sen Triplets - Inalla - Sidisi -
- Breya -

User avatar
Sanity_Eclipse
Posts: 321
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 4 years ago

Rough initial list.

I liken the flavor of Xyris to that stereotypical Asian "Divine Dragon / Serpent" of the Heavens kinda theme.

Fangs of the Divine Serpent
Approximate Total Cost:

This is what first came to my mind (after like a week+ of thinking on it).

I don't have many ways to pump Xyris for a bigger wheel on hit, and I may be a bit heavy on normal wheel effects.
Last edited by Sanity_Eclipse 4 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
More Decks
Show
Hide
- Lyra - Naru Meha - Chandra - Lovisa - Nissa -
- Lavinia X - Yuriko - Jhoira - Saheeli - Glissa - Lathril - Meren - Koma -
- Anafenza - Alela - Sen Triplets - Inalla - Sidisi -
- Breya -


Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Commander”