Lutri, the Spellchaser Preemptively Banned

User avatar
Maluko
Posts: 137
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 1
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Maluko » 4 years ago

MrMystery314 wrote:
4 years ago
I feel like this is the same situation with every card that's either banned at any point or has a ban discussed where everyone suddenly comes out of the woodwork with a ton of fair, casual, and not ban-worthy uses or justifications for a card, as if your Elemental tribal deck is somehow more important than what a pretty significant chunk of players will be doing. If you don't like bans, house-rule them out, don't complain they're infringing on your rights as a player. There are plenty of fun cards out there, but as soon as one is denied to players they suddenly can't live without it.
If this is what you're taking out of the entire post, then you misunderstood it completely and I advise you to read it again with a fresh perspective. The problem isn't the card itself. The problem is the precedent the card is going to open for the format. The players' confidence on the RC will dwindle severely after this move, and plenty of arguments amounting to "but we can't trust what the RC says because they said Wishes will never work but somehow Companion cards do" will roam discussions in the internet. Additionally, this gives strength to conspiracy theorists stating that Wizards is trying more complex and novel ways to push the RC away from control of the format.

I'm currently waiting to see the RC's statement regarding how Companion will work in the format. But if it works exactly as people are predicting, I don't see good things coming out of this preemptive ban for the future of Commander.

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4538
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

Airi wrote:
4 years ago
I'm not sure that the level of sarcasm here was warranted, but I'm going to pass on very poorly defacing a card and probably ruining another card because I cannot do those kinds of alters.
On a slightly more serious note, you could have it hand altered onto a card, or those (imo tacky) stick-on alters. I always hated the art on Phelddagrif so I had it replaced with something I liked more. I guess I just don't see art as a good reason to want a card unbanned in a game where you're allowed to alter your cards.
This repsonse is probably going to come off a bit ruder than intended
NP I think I'm always ruder than I intend :?
but it's because I care about the format?
I mean I do too, but do you really think unbanning or banning the wishes would make or break the format? That's what I was talking about specifically in that comment. There's no "demonic tutor" of wishes, they're all pretty fair tbh. Potentially more overhead for brewing if you want to use them, but that's all on the head of whoever wants to use them. Provided there's a wishboard, ofc, I don't think anyone wants the "hang on let me go see if there's something I can buy from the store to solve this board state" version of wishes. But I also doubt anyone is stupid enough to actually play them that way either, even if rule 11 didn't exist.
Banning a card prior to it's release one announcement after telling us they preferred to wait and see.
What was the "wait and see" announcement?

Personally I like that they went ahead and pre-banned lutri. It doesn't take a genius to see that it would have become a problem eventually. Better to nip it in the bud than when the card hasn't been reprinted, costs $85, and then the banning craters the price to a nickel.
The fact that even if this ends in wishes being legal, there's a lot of bending over backwards to make this mechanic work against the rules already in place (regardless of how elegant they say the solution is).
I guess we'll see how much this complicates things on the technical jargon side of the rules. I do hope they don't end up with a special rule just for companions - but if they do then it's kind of whatever. It's not like I re-read the rules every day. Like I said, I bet most casual players don't even know about the wish rule. They just don't play them because they're mostly old and suck.
The fact that it's a blanket ban, which I don't agree with for legendary creatures (see: BaaC complaints from me pretty much since they abolished it).
I mean....that one's just going to come down to personal preference but removing BaaC definitely simplified the rules. Shouldn't you like removing BaaC if you care about rules elegance?
The fact that they banned my adorable otter son, who would have been perfect for my Ral Zarek deck as a general that, due to circumstances I can't control, I cannot play now.
I'm pretty sure a few weeks ago nobody knew it existed. Better to have loved and lost?
I am not lesser for caring.
I was referring specifically to caring about upholding rule 11 and preventing wishes from working (or removing it, really, I find it hard to care either way).

I can get why you'd want to use a specific card and you'd care about THAT, but if the RC announced tomorrow that rule 11 was abolished and wishes worked as normal (with wishboards) would that bother you? Would you think the format would become measurably better or worse because a few mediocre cards with an arguably interesting effect became playable?
It is outside the game by the literal definition of reminder text on the companion mechanic. The distinction is important to me, and I oppose the general rule of allowing cards outside of the game, particularly when their "outside the game" aspect is what gets them banned. See: Wishes. Companion is a little different, I'll grant you, but it does not change my stance on it.
Literal definitions tend to be where pointless semantic arguments come from.

In terms of how it actually works in the game, is casting a commander from the CZ meaningfully different from casting a companion from "outside the game"? Not really. So why does it matter?

If Lutri was being banned because the RC didn't like wish-like cards, and if rule 11 being demolished would make lutri legal, would you be pro or anti rule 11?
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4538
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

Kavu Enthusiast wrote:
4 years ago
a 10 card silver bullet toolbox in the shape of 1 card.
Lol I feel like you're really overstating the power of wishes...
it should be the RC making the change, not WotC forcing the change.
I can't disprove the tin-foil hat theories about wotc trying to mess with the RC for unknowable reasons, but I think the far more likely explanation is that wotc wanted a fun commander-like mechanic in standard, because commander rules and standard drools.
They've hitched their money wagon to a grassroots format that has arbiters that don't answer to them and I'm sure that makes more than a few of them anxious that they lack the control they classically have had over the formats of the game they design and make product for.
Possibly, but honestly steering a casual format isn't rocket science, the RC would have to be colossal idiots to kill the format. Anyway whoever might be nervous about commander sure has hell didn't design lutri, or the mechanic as a whole.
Having just *1* Companion with the ability feels like 'we know what we're doing and we're just doing it one time to see what happens so if it blows up in our face it's limited to this card'
*puts on tinfoil hat*
As for the whole 'their format' thing from EDH players...I mean, it definitely isn't *WotC's* format is it? Truly it's the RC's format to be sure. It's their baby first, but it's a baby they shared with us all and we all love and they want us to love. It existed and become popular and had a community before WotC lifted a finger to support it or design pushed legends and cards specific for the format. It's the RC's baby, but we players are its extended family in that metaphor...WotC is maybe the Godfather that is getting more and more possessive and it's getting kinda weird.
By "their" I meant commander players (except myself because I am perfectly rational at all times obviously).

I feel like the standard players saying "why are you turning standard into commander?" have a way better argument than commander players acting like the mechanic is all a ploy to screw with the RC.
digitalfire wrote:
4 years ago
I agree completely if this were a competitive only format. But the mantra of "Build casual, play competitive" seems to be the majority opinion in this format.
I think it sets a bad precedent to start stacking up benefits that don't take up deck slots and don't make any requirements upon that deck. It's the same reason conspiracies in constructed would be stupid, even the minor ones. Being able to literally improve your deck without needing to make any critical decision whatsoever, literally just "if I have this card then my deck is better full stop" is not great for the format. imo.
Maluko wrote:
4 years ago
The players' confidence on the RC will dwindle severely after this move, and plenty of arguments amounting to "but we can't trust what the RC says because they said Wishes will never work but somehow Companion cards do" will roam discussions in the internet.
This is hilarious. What "confidence" is going to be lost, exactly? The RC can literally never change any rules because they used to say X and now they changed it?

I trust the RC to ban the very most egregious cards for casual play, and to curate a fairly steady banlist and ruleset that communicates the whole...vibe of the format. That's really about it. How they react to unprecedented mechanics is really up to them, I'm not going to stop "trusting" them based on how they react to a new mechanic, especially when the way they react is basically "yeah, ok, that seems cool. Just not that one card that's obviously problematic". I can't imagine a more straightforward, even-keeled approach to handling it.

I just want the RC to ban dumb cards occasionally and occasionally update the rules as needed. I'm not trying to get Sheldon to be the godfather to my children. Sheesh.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

User avatar
TheAmericanSpirit
Supreme Dumb Guy
Posts: 2195
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 1
Pronoun: he / him
Location: IGMCULSL Papal Palace

Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 4 years ago

I'm just here to represent those among us who don't give two tiddly %$#% about this otter and its implications. As far as I'm concerned, it never existed and hell, I prefer this kind of ban over letting something wreak havoc for two years, getting emotionally attached to it, bonding with it, only to have it torn from my embrace when I had only scratched the surface of our love (Oh Paradox Engine, why did you have to go? Why leave me in this wretched world without you?).
There's no biscuits and gravy in New Zealand.
(Except when DirkGently makes them!)

onering
Posts: 1226
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 1
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by onering » 4 years ago

Kavu Enthusiast wrote:
4 years ago
DirkGently wrote:
4 years ago
Personally I'm fine with outside the game mechanics becoming legal. I'm also fine with them remaining illegal. I don't get why anyone would care so passionately about it.
Here's the thing, I'm also fine with Rule 11 staying as is or getting the axe and letting people have 10 card wish boards or whatever to essentially have a 10 card silver bullet toolbox in the shape of 1 card. It's not one of the rules I have strong feelings for or against. I have some experience with Wish effects in a 300 card format I used to play prior to EDH being popular and Wishes were all banned because the general consensus was you had 300 cards already and it would just make a toolbox format more toolbox-y and you should probably be able to find slots for all the cards you wanted given 300 cards without needing Wish effects. I have the same general opinion about Wishing in EDH, but it's not one I'd generally die on a hill over... BUT... it should be the RC making the change, not WotC forcing the change. That's the thing to care passionately about, not just the rules changing in general, but people who aren't supposed to be at the wheel of changes deciding they get to do so unilaterally.
DirkGently wrote:
4 years ago
Kavu Enthusiast wrote:
4 years ago
It's yet another action from them that feels like they are trying to test the waters of how much control over the format they can wrench away from the EDH community through rules text on cards. There's a line between creating cards and mechanics with EDH in mind and creating cards and mechanics that change how the format is supposed to work in ways that run in direct opposition to how the format is supposed to work by carving out exceptions in restrictions the format created that make the format unique from other formats. Lutri is the most problematic because it's the logical furthest point that you could take the mechanic: to the point it's just a literal free 101st card available at all times for no design or investment costs. It masks the fact that the Companion mechanic on the whole attempts to subvert/create a loophole for one of the established key restrictions of the format.
If WotC were the brilliant conniving masterminds you think they are, I feel like they wouldn't have printed Lutri in the first place. Lutri made it significantly more likely the RC would just say "screw it, no companions at all".

I mean yes, they're exploring fresh design space. It's a little crazy but I'd rather they try new things than stick with the status quo forever. Even if sometimes I really hate their new ideas. In this case they went very conservative, though, which I think was smart. This'll be fun but not powerful to build.

I think it's funny that commander players seem to think this is subverting THEIR format. We've had stuff being played from outside the deck since the format's inception. This is a WAY bigger subversion for standard players.
I don't think they have to be masterminds to be smart enough to realize they stand to make quite a lot of money from EDH. They clearly already have realized that given the current product line ups and some of the changes in design headspace and card rules text that acknowledges that multiplayer and different starting life totals are things you need to consider and balance around we've seen over the past years. I think there are many, many people on the business end of WotC that feel that they could monetize it even more if they were in the driver seat instead of an outside group. They've hitched their money wagon to a grassroots format that has arbiters that don't answer to them and I'm sure that makes more than a few of them anxious that they lack the control they classically have had over the formats of the game they design and make product for. And I 100% guarantee you that there is someone from Hasbro breathing down their necks about that very situation, even if they are resisting them rather than agreeing with them.

I will admit you are very right that Lutri is definitely the riskiest thing they could have done short of just having all Companions function like Lutri to have the mechanic axed by the RC. I don't know if that proves they weren't trying to influence how EDH functions or proves that they were on its own because you could see how maybe it was just as far as they thought they could push the envelope before they got real pushback and wanted to see the outcome. Similar to printing 'can be your commander' on some planeswalkers and not others instead of all of them from the moment the first one had that text. Doing that would have had real consequences, it would have required a response from the RC and would likely have wasted all their design time and money if it didn't go in their favor. It was still quite risky to do it *at all*, but probably pushed just to the brink of the risky design they thought they could get away with. Having just *1* Companion with the ability feels like 'we know what we're doing and we're just doing it one time to see what happens so if it blows up in our face it's limited to this card'

As for the whole 'their format' thing from EDH players...I mean, it definitely isn't *WotC's* format is it? Truly it's the RC's format to be sure. It's their baby first, but it's a baby they shared with us all and we all love and they want us to love. It existed and become popular and had a community before WotC lifted a finger to support it or design pushed legends and cards specific for the format. It's the RC's baby, but we players are its extended family in that metaphor...WotC is maybe the Godfather that is getting more and more possessive and it's getting kinda weird.
I don't think WotC are masterminds at all, because I don't think they actually understand the format or it's appeal, and every time they try to take control the screw it up, with the exception of printing more legendaries and making commander products. The online competitive banlist was their vision of what a WotC controlled EDH would look like, and the RC warned them it would be a disaster, and it was. Eminence was a mistake. Partner is borderline a mistake, it has definitely contributed to deck diversity issues but at least has enough going for it to be worthwhile. Companion is a mistake. Designing pushed, narrow legends that promote a single deck is generally a mistake. WotC approaches commander from the perspective that they need to print commander centric cards, when the spirit of the format is finding hidden gems and oddballs and giving them a home. Even the precons, one of the few good things wizards did for the format, have drawbacks by trying to push chase cards that decrease diversity and by promoting archetypes that promote homogenization of the format, but they've done enough good by expanding the player base, adding some oddball hidden gems, and generally creating more legends that work with the spirit of the format than not that I consider them to be solidly in the positive column.

As long as WotC follows the RCs lead, we get good things. Whenever WotC tries to take the reigns, we get problems.

onering
Posts: 1226
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 1
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by onering » 4 years ago

Maluko wrote:
4 years ago
MrMystery314 wrote:
4 years ago
I feel like this is the same situation with every card that's either banned at any point or has a ban discussed where everyone suddenly comes out of the woodwork with a ton of fair, casual, and not ban-worthy uses or justifications for a card, as if your Elemental tribal deck is somehow more important than what a pretty significant chunk of players will be doing. If you don't like bans, house-rule them out, don't complain they're infringing on your rights as a player. There are plenty of fun cards out there, but as soon as one is denied to players they suddenly can't live without it.
The players' confidence on the RC will dwindle severely after this move, and plenty of arguments amounting to "but we can't trust what the RC says because they said Wishes will never work but somehow Companion cards do" will roam discussions in the internet.
And those people will be idiots. Yes, full stop idiots. People who are just ignorant, who don't follow why these are allowed, also aren't following the wish debate so they won't be making this comparison. For people who are following both, these cards have a brand new mechanic that wizards specifically attached complicated rules baggage to in order to force it's legality in commander. That rules baggage is specific to the companion ability, and thus clearly does not apply to any other outside the game card. It seems as if this ability creates a new zone in commander for companions to hang out in, as it used the sideboard in other formats and commander does not allow sideboards. While it is technically feasible that the RC could expand on this new zone to allow other cards to be placed there, there are three major factors complicating this. First, the basic rules problems of defining what else can go in the zone and how much can, which is itself an arbitrary change not prompted by any internal desire for it on the part of the RC or external pressure from printed cards that need the change. Second, the RC did not create this zone, wizards did, so it would oddly require them to modify a wizards created rule only applicable to edh for edh. Lastly, modifying the zone to allow wishes, Karn, etc to function would essentially make it Sideboard 2.0, and since the RC is opposed to sideboards, and this zone only exists because sideboards aren't allowed in the format, this is doubly unlikely to happen. This being an inelegant and complicated work around forced through by wizards to the no sideboard rule, which resulted in an unprecedented preemptive ban, should be a clear sign that rule 11 isn't changing, and the RC continues to think changing it is a bad idea. If it were any different, they would have simply changed rule 11 and avoided the rules shenanigans around companion, as the RC has repeatedly stated they prefer rules simplicity over these sorts of arbitrary work arounds.

User avatar
digitalfire
Posts: 19
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by digitalfire » 4 years ago

onering wrote:
4 years ago
Maluko wrote:
4 years ago
The players' confidence on the RC will dwindle severely after this move
And those people will be idiots ... Wizards specifically attached complicated rules baggage to in order to force it's legality in commander
You're seeming contradictory here. WotC enforced complicated rules baggage to a format they don't control. The RC does have the power to say "Hey Wizards, you can't do that because you don't control the Commander rules. Companion works the same way in Commander as it does in all other formats." But the RC didn't do that. That is what 's shocking most people. That's why people are wondering if WotC is forcing the RC to back down on this. We're not idiots, we've been following along, it's rude of you to say otherwise.
Commander Decks
Sol Thief | Animar | Monogold

onering
Posts: 1226
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 1
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by onering » 4 years ago

digitalfire wrote:
4 years ago
onering wrote:
4 years ago
Maluko wrote:
4 years ago
The players' confidence on the RC will dwindle severely after this move
And those people will be idiots ... Wizards specifically attached complicated rules baggage to in order to force it's legality in commander
You're seeming contradictory here. WotC enforced complicated rules baggage to a format they don't control. The RC does have the power to say "Hey Wizards, you can't do that because you don't control the Commander rules. Companion works the same way in Commander as it does in all other formats." But the RC didn't do that. That is what 's shocking most people. That's why people are wondering if WotC is forcing the RC to back down on this. We're not idiots, we've been following along, it's rude of you to say otherwise.

I wasn't saying people would be idiots for losing confidence because Wizards is trying to assert control, I said that people who think this narrow move means wishes should work are idiots. It's disingenuous for you to snip the relevant part from your own quote to present my post out of context. Again, people who idiotically wonder why wishes and sideboards can't work if companion can are full stop idiots, because getting companion to work required tying a load of inelegant rules baggage to the ability to force it to work in commander.

So no, there isn't anything contradictory here. I'd have attributed this to you simply misreading my post, but the selective edits make it seem like it was intentional.

papa_funk
Posts: 49
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by papa_funk » 4 years ago

onering wrote:
4 years ago

For people who are following both, these cards have a brand new mechanic that wizards specifically attached complicated rules baggage to in order to force it's legality in commander.
OK, straw poll time. What is the total number of added words + deleted words that I had to do to the rules on the Commander page to make Companion work the way we wanted it to?

Answer on the 20th ;)

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4538
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

papa_funk wrote:
4 years ago
OK, straw poll time. What is the total number of added words + deleted words that I had to do to the rules on the Commander page to make Companion work the way we wanted it to?

Answer on the 20th ;)
Nah, everybody just wants to whine about how wizards is twisting the RCs arm to turn the commander rules into War and Peace. They don't want any actual evidence that might contradict their assumption that wizards is secretly trying to kill the format.

I'm going to guess it net adds maybe 3 words. Final answer.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

User avatar
Inkeyes22
Posts: 118
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Inkeyes22 » 4 years ago

So, I am sure some know this but the RC have very close ties to WotC. Scott Larabee literally works for WotC as Tabletop Operations Manager. Toby Elliott writes the rules for tournaments. Gavin Duggan is a Data Science Software Engineer (as far as I remember no direct ties to WotC, but I kinda remember him being a high level judge?), and Sheldon Menery was as far as I know the only level 5 Judge, member of the Hall of Fame, and recently did a 2 month stint in Renton. These people talk to WotC frequently, likely weekly or at the least monthly.

The CAG is probably less tied to WotC, but still have at semi-frequent conversations with Gavin Verhey etc. Sheldon says they knew Lutri was coming before it was spoiled. It is otter nonsense to think otherwise.

papa_funk
Posts: 49
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by papa_funk » 4 years ago

Inkeyes22 wrote:
4 years ago
Gavin Duggan is a Data Science Software Engineer (as far as I remember no direct ties to WotC, but I kinda remember him being a high level judge?)
Yes, he's a level 3 judge
Inkeyes22 wrote:
4 years ago
and Sheldon Menery was as far as I know the only level 5 Judge,
:(
Inkeyes22 wrote:
4 years ago
member of the Hall of Fame
Only in our hearts.
Inkeyes22 wrote:
4 years ago
These people talk to WotC frequently, likely weekly or at the least monthly.
Yes, though I suppose if you count Scott, it moves to daily.
Inkeyes22 wrote:
4 years ago
The CAG is probably less tied to WotC, but still have at semi-frequent conversations with Gavin Verhey etc.
Well, Ron just had to step down, so the CAG is down to two WotC employees. Plus JLK, who works pretty closely with Wizards!

Yeah, we knew it was coming.

User avatar
Inkeyes22
Posts: 118
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Inkeyes22 » 4 years ago

papa_funk wrote:
4 years ago
Inkeyes22 wrote:
4 years ago
Gavin Duggan is a Data Science Software Engineer (as far as I remember no direct ties to WotC, but I kinda remember him being a high level judge?)
Yes, he's a level 3 judge
Inkeyes22 wrote:
4 years ago
and Sheldon Menery was as far as I know the only level 5 Judge,
:(
Inkeyes22 wrote:
4 years ago
member of the Hall of Fame
Only in our hearts.
Inkeyes22 wrote:
4 years ago
These people talk to WotC frequently, likely weekly or at the least monthly.
Yes, though I suppose if you count Scott, it moves to daily.
Inkeyes22 wrote:
4 years ago
The CAG is probably less tied to WotC, but still have at semi-frequent conversations with Gavin Verhey etc.
Well, Ron just had to step down, so the CAG is down to two WotC employees. Plus JLK, who works pretty closely with Wizards!

Yeah, we knew it was coming.
I knew I would get at least some stuff wrong, but I was 92% sure on the HoF thing... I should have clarified the Judge HoF, which Toby Elliott also joined in 2011. Sorry I forgot you were a level 5 judge as well. I need to stop procrastinating and keep working on my school work.

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4538
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

Inkeyes22 wrote:
4 years ago
I need to stop procrastinating and keep working on my school work.
During spoiler season? But how will you silence the voices telling you to refresh mythicspoiler every 15 seconds?

...Everybody has those, right?
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

User avatar
Inkeyes22
Posts: 118
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Inkeyes22 » 4 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
4 years ago
Inkeyes22 wrote:
4 years ago
I need to stop procrastinating and keep working on my school work.
During spoiler season? But how will you silence the voices telling you to refresh mythicspoiler every 15 seconds?

...Everybody has those, right?
Yeah, the stuggle is real.

User avatar
BeneTleilax
Posts: 1330
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by BeneTleilax » 4 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
4 years ago
Nah, everybody just wants to whine about how wizards is twisting the RCs arm to turn the commander rules into War and Peace. They don't want any actual evidence that might contradict their assumption that wizards is secretly trying to kill the format.
Except no-one is saying that. WotC doesn't set out to kill EDH, or any other format (except maybe Extended). Nor are they setting out to lengthen the rules. That's just absurd.

What they are doing, which has become increasingly evident with %$#% like Partener and Extort, is that they are trying to assert control so as to better monetize the format. EDH began as a Timmy format, to utilize otherwise ignored cards, and do weird stuff others players haven't done yet. This fits rather poorly with WotC's chase-and-chaff model, where there's a small pool of "good" decks, that each play around a set of sought-after rares. With cards like Lutri, WotC is trying to force that model, where there are some rares a given, broad, archetype must run, or clearly hobble itself by avoiding. WotC wants EDH to live, but WotC first and foremost wants to maximize its near-term profitability.

Just because WotC doesn't actively want to destroy a format doesn't mean their actions cannot do it overall harm. To overlook the latter is just as absurd as believing the former.

onering
Posts: 1226
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 1
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by onering » 4 years ago

Whoa there, they did no such thing with extort, they simply failed to take into account that Commander doesn't check reminder text for color identity. It's an odd rules quirk. I think it's more likely that they were trying out new rules technology, keywords that have an inherit fixed cost attached, and we haven't seen that since because it has a weird interaction with color identity. Unlike companion, where it's pretty clear that they set out to make something work in commander that otherwise wouldn't (with a mechanic that seems suited to edh and brawl), extort was mostly a made for limited mechanic with only two cards that see edh play for their main effects rather than extort.

papa_funk
Posts: 49
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by papa_funk » 4 years ago

Partner is also a pretty bad example, since that's simply WotC struggling to make 4-color commanders, for which the clamor was overwhelming.

If they wanted to exert control, they'd exert control. It would be relatively simple for them. They prefer to let us keep on doing that thing we do that has made them a bunch of money.

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4538
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

BeneTleilax wrote:
4 years ago
Except no-one is saying that. WotC doesn't set out to kill EDH, or any other format (except maybe Extended). Nor are they setting out to lengthen the rules. That's just absurd.

What they are doing, which has become increasingly evident with %$#% like Partener and Extort, is that they are trying to assert control so as to better monetize the format. EDH began as a Timmy format, to utilize otherwise ignored cards, and do weird stuff others players haven't done yet. This fits rather poorly with WotC's chase-and-chaff model, where there's a small pool of "good" decks, that each play around a set of sought-after rares. With cards like Lutri, WotC is trying to force that model, where there are some rares a given, broad, archetype must run, or clearly hobble itself by avoiding. WotC wants EDH to live, but WotC first and foremost wants to maximize its near-term profitability.

Just because WotC doesn't actively want to destroy a format doesn't mean their actions cannot do it overall harm. To overlook the latter is just as absurd as believing the former.
People are absolutely whinging up and down this thread about how wotc is forcing more complications into the rules. They haven't outright stated that it's to make the format collapse, but that's the only thing I can really assume would be their goal, if they were intentionally complicating the rules.

Are they trying to monetize the format? Let's see, we live a capitalist country and the year is 2020 so...survey says yes! Do they push strong, power-crept cards that can create annoying games, in order to ensure people buy new sets and commander products rather than being satisfied with decks they built years ago? Capitalism is still a thing, so survey says yes! Is the companion mechanic designed to get people's engines running brewing up janky nonsense in both standard and commander, based on how commander has proven that people love having an always-available legend to build around? Survey...says....YES! Was Lutri designed not for standard with the unfortunately result - and likely prior assumption - that it would need to be banned in commander (based on brawl, controlled by wotc, also banning it)....but in fact a plot to create a card that would actually be legal in commander, become an auto-include, and sell tons of booster packs from now until the end of time because wotc assumes the RC is a bunch of inbred howler monkeys that wouldn't see the obvious problem with a card that goes into literally every RU deck? Survey.....sayyyyyyyyyssssss.......No. Obviously not. That's stupid.

WotC does do harm to the format sometimes, though they also give it its lifeblood. It's worth criticizing them when they push obnoxious cards that create problems in commander. This....isn't it.

I still want someone to explain to me how, precisely, printing extort or partner is going to give wotc "control". Partner did sell a lot of magic cards, but it doesn't give them any control over how the format works. It's not like suddenly everyone gets two commanders now. WotC obviously printed partner because they thought people would like it, not because of some Machiavellian scheme to alter the rules of commander, which incidentally didn't change the mtgcommander.net rules one iota.

And extort doesn't change the rules OR sell a bunch of packs. It's just a weird interaction. How the hell do you convince yourself it's some devilish plot? smh...
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

onering
Posts: 1226
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 1
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by onering » 4 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
4 years ago
BeneTleilax wrote:
4 years ago
Except no-one is saying that. WotC doesn't set out to kill EDH, or any other format (except maybe Extended). Nor are they setting out to lengthen the rules. That's just absurd.

What they are doing, which has become increasingly evident with %$#% like Partener and Extort, is that they are trying to assert control so as to better monetize the format. EDH began as a Timmy format, to utilize otherwise ignored cards, and do weird stuff others players haven't done yet. This fits rather poorly with WotC's chase-and-chaff model, where there's a small pool of "good" decks, that each play around a set of sought-after rares. With cards like Lutri, WotC is trying to force that model, where there are some rares a given, broad, archetype must run, or clearly hobble itself by avoiding. WotC wants EDH to live, but WotC first and foremost wants to maximize its near-term profitability.

Just because WotC doesn't actively want to destroy a format doesn't mean their actions cannot do it overall harm. To overlook the latter is just as absurd as believing the former.
People are absolutely whinging up and down this thread about how wotc is forcing more complications into the rules. They haven't outright stated that it's to make the format collapse, but that's the only thing I can really assume would be their goal, if they were intentionally complicating the rules.

Are they trying to monetize the format? Let's see, we live a capitalist country and the year is 2020 so...survey says yes! Do they push strong, power-crept cards that can create annoying games, in order to ensure people buy new sets and commander products rather than being satisfied with decks they built years ago? Capitalism is still a thing, so survey says yes! Is the companion mechanic designed to get people's engines running brewing up janky nonsense in both standard and commander, based on how commander has proven that people love having an always-available legend to build around? Survey...says....YES! Was Lutri designed not for standard with the unfortunately result - and likely prior assumption - that it would need to be banned in commander (based on brawl, controlled by wotc, also banning it)....but in fact a plot to create a card that would actually be legal in commander, become an auto-include, and sell tons of booster packs from now until the end of time because wotc assumes the RC is a bunch of inbred howler monkeys that wouldn't see the obvious problem with a card that goes into literally every RU deck? Survey.....sayyyyyyyyyssssss.......No. Obviously not. That's stupid.

WotC does do harm to the format sometimes, though they also give it its lifeblood. It's worth criticizing them when they push obnoxious cards that create problems in commander. This....isn't it.

I still want someone to explain to me how, precisely, printing extort or partner is going to give wotc "control". Partner did sell a lot of magic cards, but it doesn't give them any control over how the format works. It's not like suddenly everyone gets two commanders now. WotC obviously printed partner because they thought people would like it, not because of some Machiavellian scheme to alter the rules of commander, which incidentally didn't change the mtgcommander.net rules one iota.

And extort doesn't change the rules OR sell a bunch of packs. It's just a weird interaction. How the hell do you convince yourself it's some devilish plot? smh...
They have actually tried to exert some measure of control over the format in the past. Not in a tinfoil hat X mechanic is a secret backdoor coup way, but for mtgo with a new banlist. The original plan was to create a new banlist, "balanced" for tournament play, and simply use that for all edh games on modo. It was extremely poorly received. The backlash was so great that they had to backtrack in a matter of days and said that they would implement both banlists, with the modo banlist being the only one available for tournaments but for casual you'd be able to choose. But they still said thatwhen they update came a couple weeks later, there would only be the new banlist, with the real banlist being added back the next month. This resulted in a month of edh games going down dramatically in numbers, then recovering when the real banlist was reintroduced. I still think the reason they got rid of the real list for that month, despite already having to backtrack from the permanent replacement, was to see if the playerbase actually knew what it wanted and to hope that people would just adapt to their garbage banlist. Their banlist then went through numerous bans in a desperate and ultimately vain attempt to balance the format, and never succeeded, and was left derelict after about a year.

So yeah, it isn't unprecedented that WotC has moved in on the RCs territory, but it worked out so poorly for them that I don't see them trying again. I think they see Brawl as the answer, and that allows them to milk edhs popularity for tournament play in a way that can actually be balanced (in theory) without actually competing with edh (ideally edh for casual and brawl for tournaments, as that way they'd maximize sales from two healthy non-competing formats).

The online banlist, btw, was driven by a desire from WotC to push commander leagues, as leagues are their primary money maker for modo. They wanted to turn the most popular format into one that drives tournament entries. They also stopped actually selling commander precons online. You used to be able to buy them from the mtgo store for the first few years, same msrp as Walmart so more profit for WotC per sale, but around 2016 the stopped and moved the cards over to treasure chests, basically randomized mini packs that get handed out as part of rewards for constructed tournaments. WotC absolutely wants to make money, and they absolutely see EDH as a vital part of Magic's ability to be profitable, so clearly they don't want to kill it. Their attempts to maximize EDH's profitability have had a tendency to be clumsy and sometimes harmful.

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4538
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

I definitely don't disagree that wotc's monetary interest can sometimes hurt the format. There's a ton of examples of that, for sure.

I just don't think companion is that, at all (for that matter, neither is partner or extort). It's not going to hurt commander as a format. It's way too tame, from what we've seen. What I think it actually is, maybe, is trying to trick commander players into playing standard since they get to play a pseudo-commander there. If I wanted to go really tin-foil-hat, I'd say that maybe Lutri was intentionally made bannable, so that commander players who want to play the cutesy-wootsy otter would consider making a standard deck around it instead...which also just so happens to be really similar to constructing a brawl deck, thus drawing them more into the competitive magic scene. You wanna talk conspiracies, that's one that I think is actually plausible (but also not particularly malicious imo, competitive magic is fun too).

I'm not very familiar with the online banlist. I think I've heard of it, but I forgot about it since I don't play online. I suspect that, regardless how well-made a wotc curated banlist would be, it would never catch on since most people just want to port their paper decks over. But maybe it also sucks, idk.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

ilovesaprolings
Posts: 833
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by ilovesaprolings » 4 years ago

What is RC's opinion on Drannith Magistrate?

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4538
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

ilovesaprolings wrote:
4 years ago
What is RC's opinion on Drannith Magistrate?
Personally, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced it's not a problem. It's often really hard to play a commander through contamination or hall of gemstone, sometimes blood moon if your manabase is greedy, etc. They're annoying but they're not really that big of a problem in the format imo. In this case it's a creature so anybody can remove it, and you'll probably have help since no one else will want it around either. If it ends up getting banned it'll probably be because it's getting played a lot more than those old stax cards, not because it's actually stronger or more problematic. Play removal, and have a plan if your commander is offline for a while. Build with good principles and I don't think it'll be a big deal.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

User avatar
cryogen
GΘΔ†
Posts: 1056
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Westminster, MD
Contact:

Post by cryogen » 4 years ago

Sheldon wrote:Let me see if I can clarify. Nothing was arbitrary. We believe restrictions breed creativity. Wishes and companion play in similar space but are not the same. Companion provides compelling restriction, referencing only itself. Wishes provide expansion, referencing other cards.
This is from Twitter, responding to someone calling the RC's decision to keep companion arbitrary.

@papa_funk what I hope to see on the 20th is a full thought out response and and explanation for the ban. The announcement on the 2nd raised as many questions as it answered and I think you, Sheldon, and Shivam could have saved some headache by not having to expend time and energy answering questions that could have been included in the announcement in the first place. (I'm not naive enough to think you wouldn't have been swarmed anyway, but hopefully it would be more soothing tempers rather than justifying your actions.)
Sheldon wrote:You're the reason we can't have nice things.

MrMystery314
Posts: 64
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by MrMystery314 » 4 years ago

The online ban list is a separate matter entirely, but one mistake made by WoTC doesn't mean every decision they make in the future will be similarly poor. If that logic worked we wouldn't be here today.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Commander”