Marisi Outside of Goad

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Cyberium
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Post by Cyberium » 4 years ago

(Posted in the preview forum by accident, and since the Moderator hasn't noticed, I'm just gonna repost it here.)

Marisi, Breaker of the Coil

Most people build him focus on Goading, which is valid in a group game, but I notice a few things.

1) What do you do when you're in a 1v1 situation?

Goad remains useful in 1v1 since it forces your opponent to attack with their utilities, but if the said opponent is playing control with minimal creature count, Goad loses a lot of its power. Many decks I observed also lack the raw power to finish off a game because they rely too much on Goad.

2) Marisi's "Opponents can't cast spells during combat" phrase is rarely utilized.

Honestly, this attracted me more than Marisi's Goad effect initially. This ability allows me to cast instants unhindered (and with help of cards like Vivien, Champion of the Wilds and Vedalken Orrery, other types as well), meaning I could destroy permanents without being countered and prevent opponents from protecting the said permanents. Since Naya isn't traditionally a "spellsling" shard, this ability tends to be ignored. I think it matters.

In conclusion, average Marisi decks are effective in doing what they do, at the same time felt incomplete. I'm thinking about making a Marisi deck with less Goad and more emphasis on standing on his own, and include additional control aspect to it.

I'm thinking of a hate-bear build with equipment support.

1) Equipment allows individual creatures to become a threat, and ones such as Conqueror's Flail provides suppression even if Marisi isn't on the field. With Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle, I can also bring back creatures by casting equipment and rocks.

2) Hate-bears from W/R adds damage and suppression, further provide the control element needed not only in group but also in 1v1. Exp: Hushbringer is both a suppressor and a flyer that could "Goad".

3) In addition to instant-enablers like Vivien and Orrery, the deck would hopefully have higher number of instants and Isochron Scepter to maintain board clearance and protection. Settle the Wreckage and Benefactor's Draught might be included as well, utilizing Marisi's core ability with removal in mind..

4) I'm not above using cards like Ruination.

What do you guys think? Any suggestion on what other cards I should consider for such a deck?

Addendum: Jason Alt posted an interesting mono-white Stax deck with many suppression cards that might go into this version of Marisi: https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/jasonalt ... -stax-off/

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BaronCappuccino
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Post by BaronCappuccino » 4 years ago

I've no experience with Marisi, but I have experience in being underwhelmed with a commander who was both goad and something else, and focusing on the goad, namely, Grenzo, Havoc Raiser and I was underwhelmed for the exact reasons you outlined. The real way to build Grenzo would be for the card advantage. It was remarkably impossible to achieve the state of all three opponents in a state of unavoidable war that couldn't involve me, and I dedicated everything to setting up such a state.

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bobthefunny
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Post by bobthefunny » 4 years ago

Interesting, I forgot that ability was even there. I haven't built a deck with Marisi yet, but when I was looking at her, I focused on the goad just to make sure blockers would be out of the way. I would probably have added a few things to encourage attacks in other ways as well.

Well, if you're talking WR, Equipment, and Spells, I hear the word "Sunforger" being whispered on the wind.

If you want to cast even more stuff during combats, when your opponents can't respond, Yeva, Nature's Herald might be interesting to add in as well. Or, you know, Vedalken Orrery.

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Post by Treamayne » 4 years ago

I've been working on a Marisi, Breaker of the Coil Tribal Cats build with equipment subtheme.

I have found it to be fun and interesting. Nacatl War-Pride is an interesting finisher on the back of Goad since (ideally) most of their creatures would be tapped from attacking and Breath of Fury does wonders with disposable token attackers.
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Post by Cyberium » 4 years ago

BaronCappuccino wrote:
4 years ago
I've no experience with Marisi, but I have experience in being underwhelmed with a commander who was both goad and something else, and focusing on the goad, namely, Grenzo, Havoc Raiser and I was underwhelmed for the exact reasons you outlined. The real way to build Grenzo would be for the card advantage. It was remarkably impossible to achieve the state of all three opponents in a state of unavoidable war that couldn't involve me, and I dedicated everything to setting up such a state.
Precisely. I love Grenzo for his utilities even in 1v1; able to use your opponents' cards would fill some of the gap red is facing in EDH. Grenzo is not as strong in goading as Marisi, but certainly more flexible. It's ideal to have him in a Marisi deck.
bobthefunny wrote:
4 years ago
Interesting, I forgot that ability was even there. I haven't built a deck with Marisi yet, but when I was looking at her, I focused on the goad just to make sure blockers would be out of the way. I would probably have added a few things to encourage attacks in other ways as well.

Well, if you're talking WR, Equipment, and Spells, I hear the word "Sunforger" being whispered on the wind.
Yes, the ability is easily forgotten, but vital in a game fill with instant speed responses. Sunforger is definitely an include for this ideal.
Treamayne wrote:
4 years ago
I've been working on a Marisi, Breaker of the Coil Tribal Cats build with equipment subtheme.

I have found it to be fun and interesting. Nacatl War-Pride is an interesting finisher on the back of Goad since (ideally) most of their creatures would be tapped from attacking and Breath of Fury does wonders with disposable token attackers.
Good aura to have. I use Breath of Fury with Wasitora, Nekoru Queen and forgot War-Pride could also utilize the ability.

Looks like cat-Sunforger with token generation would be a positive route to pursue.

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Post by cryogen » 4 years ago

I just finished a first draft of Marisi using what I have laying around. I have the similar experiences with Mathas, in that I often come in second place because I can't effectively close out the game.

Some of the finishers I've included so far in my build are Finale of Devastation + Craterhoof Behemoth or Avenger of Zendikar, Triumph of the Hordes, and Crash of Rhino Beetles, off the top of my head.
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Cyberium
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Post by Cyberium » 4 years ago

cryogen wrote:
4 years ago
I just finished a first draft of Marisi using what I have laying around. I have the similar experiences with Mathas, in that I often come in second place because I can't effectively close out the game.

Some of the finishers I've included so far in my build are Finale of Devastation + Craterhoof Behemoth or Avenger of Zendikar, Triumph of the Hordes, and Crash of Rhino Beetles, off the top of my head.
Nature's Will and Winter Orb effect might be a way to lock the game down in 1v1, or just go Ruination/Blood Moon and kill off the last person's power to fight back. My approach with Tax/Punish is the same concept, but it might attract unwanted hostility too early, so it might be easier to do the usual Goad tricks, and save LD/Stax for the last opponent.

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