In a perfect world, at least in my opinion, the ban list would only be ante/dexterity cards, Shahrazad (yay, we get to play another game of EDH in the middle of our game of EDH! Interesting in theory, but the fair usage of the card is simply spending a bunch of time finishing a game before people return to another one they've largely forgotten about, and in the worst case trolls continuously loop it until everyone gives up.), cards like conspiracies which are banned in Constructed formats anyway, and the power 9 besides Timetwister and probably Library of Alexandria (unavailable for most people who don't have the luxury of being able to use proxies and gives a significant advantage; Timetwister isn't so good where every deck in blue wants to play it). I think leaving Wishes and similar edge cases up to the playgroup is fair, as although I think from the competitive perspective it would make things more interesting, part of the purpose of EDH is that it's a 100 card format without an explicit sideboard. Then again, I don't think anyone ranging from the "what do you mean, EDH isn't a competitive format? Our LGS runs pods every week and everyone has a blast!" to "what do you mean, people play EDH competitively? Our LGS runs pods every week and everyone has a blast!" would be willing to accept the burden of either a format dominated by degenerate anarchy or having to meticulously rule 0 to fit everyone's individual preferences.
Now i know that you'll wash your hands faster than Pilato's because you never said things like that, but many cEDH players wrote similar things on the forum many times.
I'd wager then that this probably doesn't address their argument in a satisfying manner, as that's attacking the group in general by offering arguments you've heard before instead of actually addressing their own.
"RC sucks, Sheldon is a noob! The format would be better in wotc's hands!"
Anyone who thinks that having WoTC run the format would result in less drama is sorely mistaken, as well as anyone who thinks that if WoTC were to run the format they'd rock the boat significantly by changing philosophies, becoming significantly less inclusive, or playing Keno to determine the ban list.
player A: "i want to play vaevictis asmadi in my deck. Please adjust the rules and ban cards so i can do that."
Spikes "go away casual player! Make your own format if you want to do that!
The group of "player A"s is probably not the main constituent advocating for a ban of Flash now. Besides, asking for permission to do something is quite different than asking for permission to ban something. To use a personal example, speaking as someone who tends to lean competitive in EDH, I couldn't care less if people want to use silver-bordered cards or even banned cards that aren't blatantly over-powered as long as the game doesn't devolve into a rules quagmire or all the other players aren't penalized for not exploiting the new shiny toy. I'm far less happy (although this generally applies to other formats more) when people try to retroactively ban cards or strategies because they realize they make them feel bad; one cannot before the game agree that anything is fair game and be fine with a bunch of decks all doing degenerate things for a few turns until someone combos off and suddenly "oh yeah, combos are OP". Granted, this isn't quite the case here, but the principle remains that any ban list that veers beyond choices almost universally deemed common sense (I wouldn't be surprised if there were quite a few people advocating for the broken P9 to be unbanned if supply is an issue; then again, they probably own copies) will create issues whenever any talk of a ban is on the line. People don't like having their shiny toys taken away from them, including Flash Hulk players who've discovered sheer joy the first time they won on turn 1 and don't want to lose the feeling again.
"we want to play turn 3 instawin combo in our deck. Please adjust the rules and ban cards so we can do that.
Technically they're arguing against this, but sure. The best way to fight fire is with multiple nuclear blasts, at least in my opinion.
because everyone in the format deserves a fair shake at a game on an even playing field
Yes, but not everyone takes the opportunity.
When you reach the point at which your enjoyment is mutually exclusive to another players, you, as a player, are a problem for the format.
It's quite hard to convince someone who signed up for an EDH tournament with reasonably high stakes that they can't play their best deck that they practiced with and prepared for because the other players don't like it. Similarly, in a more casual setting, it wouldn't be terribly fun to roll up to a new cEDH pod and discover that you need to now go play solitaire or borrow a deck you aren't as experienced with or find less fun. I also don't want to see a stratification of "competitive EDH as the definition of the word, optimizing EDH", "cEDH," and "casual EDH", as some people won't want to fit neatly into one bucket or be forcibly told they need to play a different format.
Does the 'no holds barred' philosophy mutually exclude you from having that discussion with your fellow gamers?
Not in all cases, but for the group of people (including myself, to some degree) that believe cEDH should be EDH optimized within the rules of the format to the player's best ability, house-ruling additions or subtractions doesn't fit that and create inconsistencies. Certainly, people can certainly enjoy adding those rules, but that means the extremely literal-minded suddenly are told they aren't playing competitively.
Is there a level of peer pressure that holds you back from having rule 0 discussion?
I believe individual playgroups should be free to do what they want to make games more fun and support those endeavors, but I still don't believe that's "proper" competitive EDH. This is coming from the player who doesn't mind running amok with Bridgevine or Simic Nexus or whatever the current boogeyman of the format is until forcibly reined in, so once again, I have unusual opinions on format balance. If there are two camps clearly forming in this thread I'm part of the third.
Are the sort of people who play Flash Hulk/Sushi Hulk just jerks you'd prefer not to play?
Of course I'd certainly say no to that question: people shouldn't be demonized for playing the best deck in a competitive format, and any sort of "gentleman's agreement" to be sporting and do otherwise is doing something that, while potentially fun, is straying from the definition of the format.
Is there a sense of pride/ego/competition/some other emotion that stops you from declining a game against flash hulk?
Once again, I'd certainly never decline a game, and anyone who wishes to rule 0 their way out is free to be happy in their own way.
so yeah, we're down for cEDH but flash play is off limits
I'd say "So yeah, we're down for cEDH, and if you don't like Flash then either tune your deck against the present metagame while waiting for new cards to shift the format around, go down to a lower power level where no sane person should be playing Flash Hulk, or go down to a lower power level where the scary monster can't touch you."
I'm fairly naive to that aspect of EDH, so feel free to enlighten.
Within a few hours another cEDH player is going to tell you to take my words with a grain of salt, but hopefully throughout this thread I've clarified at least my personal perspective.
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