March 2020 AMA

[cryogen]

@Sheldon, thank you for taking the time to answer the questions that presumably didn't make it into your upcoming AMA article.

[tarotplz]

The RC is more than capable of taking competitive balance into its own hands. We have a pretty good grasp on competitive Magic. We don't have any desire to balance Commander for competitive play because that's not want we want from and for the format. It's a respite from competitive play. Our core demographic are the folks that want something different. It's the reason we started and it's the reason we persist.

Thanks for answering

I know that you guys would be more than capable of doing the competitive balance thing, hard to find more judge levels in one place than at the RC.

I guess what I meant is something more akin to "Why would a competitively balanced banlist stop EDH from fulfilling its purpose as a respite from competitive play?" It seems to me, that if players went in with the right midset of fun first, it should provide the same experience in that case

[Hermes_]

I love how reddit is losing it's collective mind over the couple questions answered in this thread...I'll need to stock up on pop corn for when the article comes out.

[RxPhantom]

Not to mention any names, but some members of the CAG seem to be speaking directly on the behalf of the RC when they do interviews. Is this supposed to be the case?

Would any of the RC members be open to appearing on something like Game Knights, or another content creator's gameplay video?

There are certain topics that are always being discussed in the community, such as planeswalkers as commanders and hybrid mana. Can you tell us if these or any other issues are considered settled among the RC?

Do you get a little disappointed that a lot of cool, old commanders are getting driven to obscurity more and more by newer ones?

On a separate note, I implore the RC not to ban Flash.

I think we've been pretty clear on multiple occasions that the PW-as-Commander and hybrid mana discussions are done. We'll never say never, but something major would have to change.

I think that there are plenty of people keeping cool, old commanders alive. I bet you are.

I'm really curious why you don't want Flash banned.

First, thank you answering my questions. And yes, I'm trying to maintain a couple old school commanders in the form of Merieke Ri Berit and Lord of Tresserhorn.

Regarding Flash, cEDH players often cite the card's relative unpopularity as justification for its ban. We already know that a card's ubiquity can put it on the RC's radar for a potential ban. Conversely, niche status shouldn't also be a criterion. Commander is *the* format for niche cards. The people that play Flash shouldn't have to lose it to a vocal minority. How many decks would it have to be in to protect it from such a ban? 5% of decks on EDHrec? 10%?

The format's philosophy as established by the RC's own document runs completely counter to that of cEDH. Its proponents often say that cEDH is Commander. Sorry, but it's not. Do we discuss any other stratifications of the format like we do cEDH? No, we don't. cEDH players set out to play the most broken, ruthlessly efficient games possible, and now that they've broken it, they expect the RC to fix it for them.

Having said that, cEDH proponents should have the game experiences that they desire, but not at the expense of players that ascribe to the format's established philosophy. They should show some initiative, curate their own banlist, and have a blast, Plus, aren't there a bunch of cards on the banlist that don't make sense for cEDH?

tl;dr: Banning Flash would necessitate a rewriting of the format's core philosophy.

[toctheyounger]

I love how reddit is losing it's collective mind over the couple questions answered in this thread...I'll need to stock up on pop corn for when the article comes out.

Standard response from a trigger-happy bunch of reactionaries to me. They wonder why he doesn't do an AMA over there too, while constantly belittling the RC/CAG. What sort of masochist would walk into that sort of crossfire? That's like saying 'people are a-holes bar none, but also why don't I have friends?'

Baffling. You have to be willing to have a reasonable, passive discussion about your problems before people are willing to hear you out.

[legendarycardboard]

Its proponents often say that cEDH is Commander. Sorry, but it's not.

Sorry, but it is.

[Hermes_]

I bet this owuld really start a riot:

Despite it not being in the spirit or the intention of the format, competitive multiplayer Commander has continued to gain popularity. Do you think there is a possible future where the philosophy on bannings or rules changes bends in a way to support these players?

Not from us. Both can exist, but not in the same space. We won't resist a competitive splinter group forming, but the official Commander Rules Committee remains committed to Commander being a social, casual, other-than-competitive format.

that's from a Q&A he did back in '17 lol

[papa_funk]

Have you played Ticket to Ride,if so what is your favorite map pack ? (I've recently picked up the game on my xbox one)

I haven't. What am I missing?

I can show you when I'm down. I don't think it's your style, but it could be a fun diversion.

[RxPhantom]

I love how reddit is losing it's collective mind over the couple questions answered in this thread...I'll need to stock up on pop corn for when the article comes out.

I went and checked it out just out of curiosity, and it reminded me that reddit is often a perfect example of people using the internet to be the worst version of themselves. It's an echo chamber in which several of them referred to themselves as 'the community,' as if their concerns are universal among the Commander base at large. The first post is actually a quote from me from this thread in which I simply said:

On a separate note, I implore the RC not to ban Flash.

For this, I was called a troll. Reddit is a cesspool.

[Sheldon]

Have you played Ticket to Ride,if so what is your favorite map pack ? (I've recently picked up the game on my xbox one)

I haven't. What am I missing?

It's an award winning board game, here's the blurb from the official site:
Ticket to Ride is a cross-country train adventure in which players collect and play matching train cards to claim railway routes connecting cities throughout North America.

The longer the routes, the more points they earn.

Additional points come to those who can fulfill their Destination Tickets by connecting two distant cities, and to the player who builds the longest continuous railway.
https://www.daysofwonder.com/tickettoride/en/usa/ There's a number of maps that add new rules (like tunnels)

I've played the board game; I assumed it was something different since you mentioned the Xbox.

[Sheldon]

I both want to go check out the reddit thread and have no desire to do so, some sort of weird curiosity superposition. Short version is I have way better things to do with my time.

[toctheyounger]

I both want to go check out the reddit thread and have no desire to do so, some sort of weird curiosity superposition. Short version is I have way better things to do with my time.

While I'm sure their agenda is relevant to the format, they clearly don't know how to discuss their problems with polite conversation. Even if all you have to do today is organizing your sock drawer you definitely have better things to do with your time.

[cryogen]

I both want to go check out the reddit thread and have no desire to do so, some sort of weird curiosity superposition. Short version is I have way better things to do with my time.

I haven't gone back since, but it was pretty much what you would expect. I don't think you will gain anything from it beyond simply being able to say you in fact did read what people were saying.

[ParadoxEngine]

What is your favourite card among all the banlist in Magic?

[Sinis]

I bet this owuld really start a riot:

Despite it not being in the spirit or the intention of the format, competitive multiplayer Commander has continued to gain popularity. Do you think there is a possible future where the philosophy on bannings or rules changes bends in a way to support these players?

Not from us. Both can exist, but not in the same space. We won't resist a competitive splinter group forming, but the official Commander Rules Committee remains committed to Commander being a social, casual, other-than-competitive format.

that's from a Q&A he did back in '17 lol

It's almost like there has been a continuous and consistent philosophy surrounding the format for years and years, and that it was always the intent to have a loosely regulated casual format instead of anything else.

I hope Flash is never officially banned, because it will force the people who want a competitively robust ban list to put in the work and actually make one to their own specifications, on pain of playing within a solved format forever.

[Treamayne]

On a separate note, I implore the RC not to ban Flash.

I'm really curious why you don't want Flash banned.

Regarding Flash, cEDH players often cite the card's relative unpopularity as justification for its ban. We already know that a card's ubiquity can put it on the RC's radar for a potential ban. Conversely, niche status shouldn't also be a criterion. Commander is *the* format for niche cards. The people that play Flash shouldn't have to lose it to a vocal minority. How many decks would it have to be in to protect it from such a ban? 5% of decks on EDHrec? 10%?

The format's philosophy as established by the RC's own document runs completely counter to that of cEDH. Its proponents often say that cEDH is Commander. Sorry, but it's not. Do we discuss any other stratifications of the format like we do cEDH? No, we don't. cEDH players set out to play the most broken, ruthlessly efficient games possible, and now that they've broken it, they expect the RC to fix it for them.

Having said that, cEDH proponents should have the game experiences that they desire, but not at the expense of players that ascribe to the format's established philosophy. They should show some initiative, curate their own banlist, and have a blast, Plus, aren't there a bunch of cards on the banlist that don't make sense for cEDH?

tl;dr: Banning Flash would necessitate a rewriting of the format's core philosophy.

Also, Flash is good in casual. It's exactly the type of old card for which EDH excels. Good enough that those of us with access look for a place to use it, not so strong that casual players feel like they must buy a copy (e.g. Prophet of Kruphix).

I currently have it in:
- Animar Elementals as a combat trick (deck is "sneak-attack" themed based on Ball Lightning type elementals)
- Morophon Werewolves (to "cast" a werewolf at EOT and get a transform on my upkeep)
- Toothy Mono-U Illusion Tribal, again as a combat trick

[RxPhantom]

I'm really curious why you don't want Flash banned.

Regarding Flash, cEDH players often cite the card's relative unpopularity as justification for its ban. We already know that a card's ubiquity can put it on the RC's radar for a potential ban. Conversely, niche status shouldn't also be a criterion. Commander is *the* format for niche cards. The people that play Flash shouldn't have to lose it to a vocal minority. How many decks would it have to be in to protect it from such a ban? 5% of decks on EDHrec? 10%?

The format's philosophy as established by the RC's own document runs completely counter to that of cEDH. Its proponents often say that cEDH is Commander. Sorry, but it's not. Do we discuss any other stratifications of the format like we do cEDH? No, we don't. cEDH players set out to play the most broken, ruthlessly efficient games possible, and now that they've broken it, they expect the RC to fix it for them.

Having said that, cEDH proponents should have the game experiences that they desire, but not at the expense of players that ascribe to the format's established philosophy. They should show some initiative, curate their own banlist, and have a blast, Plus, aren't there a bunch of cards on the banlist that don't make sense for cEDH?

tl;dr: Banning Flash would necessitate a rewriting of the format's core philosophy.

Also, Flash is good in casual. It's exactly the type of old card for which EDH excels. Good enough that those of us with access look for a place to use it, not so strong that casual players feel like they must buy a copy (e.g. Prophet of Kruphix).

I currently have it in:
- Animar Elementals as a combat trick (deck is "sneak-attack" themed based on Ball Lightning type elementals)
- Morophon Werewolves (to "cast" a werewolf at EOT and get a transform on my upkeep)
- Toothy Mono-U Illusion Tribal, again as a combat trick

Duuuuuuude! I can't lie, I've got a dog in this fight. Flash is my favorite card in Lord of Tresserhorn, which revolves around creatures with deck triggers. I've done some cool stuff with it, but the best was Flashing out Keiga, the Tide Star to take control of an incoming Blightsteel Colossus, and then proceeded to slay the table with it.

[Hermes_]

I haven't. What am I missing?

It's an award winning board game, here's the blurb from the official site:
Ticket to Ride is a cross-country train adventure in which players collect and play matching train cards to claim railway routes connecting cities throughout North America.

The longer the routes, the more points they earn.

Additional points come to those who can fulfill their Destination Tickets by connecting two distant cities, and to the player who builds the longest continuous railway.
https://www.daysofwonder.com/tickettoride/en/usa/ There's a number of maps that add new rules (like tunnels)

I've played the board game; I assumed it was something different since you mentioned the Xbox.

No,i'm fairly sure it's the same, minus the xbox version being cheaper to own lol

[Dunharrow]

Would there be any merit to making temporary (or optional) bans on cards to get feedback and more perspective from players? For example, make an optional ban of Card X until the release of the next core set, and encourage players to drop that card and give feedback on how much they like or dislike the possibility of an official banning.



(like in your last AMA, I am still thinking that tutors break the spirit of singleton, and it would be interesting to ban the top 5 most played tutors and see if people actually miss them)

[Kelzam]

Would there be any merit to making temporary (or optional) bans on cards to get feedback and more perspective from players? For example, make an optional ban of Card X until the release of the next core set, and encourage players to drop that card and give feedback on how much they like or dislike the possibility of an official banning.



(like in your last AMA, I am still thinking that tutors break the spirit of singleton, and it would be interesting to ban the top 5 most played tutors and see if people actually miss them)

This is basically a watch list without calling it one, and that's something they've said they don't want to do.

[pokken]

If you temporary banned a card in one of my main decks I'd be pretty pissed off

[Hermes_]

r/Cedh reaction

[Hermes_]

from reddit "Thanks Sheldon I hope you get pneumonia!"

[toctheyounger]

Ugh, no one needs to hear that. Let's leave that garbage in the trash where it belongs. There's nothing constructive about saying that.

[MrMystery314]

Some of the interesting responses that weren't that (I believe a moderator deleted that comment, understandably so, as I can't find it anymore):

Yikes.

I'm paraphrasing but, to the question everyone here wants answered:

"I Think you guys know by asking to ban flash, you're really more likely trying to pick a fight than ask a question. But I'll humor you. cEDH community is a lot smaller and louder than their representation deserves and we aren't going to do something to help such a small demographic."

I have feelings Sheldon.

It should be blatantly obvious that "Commander is for fun" does NOT include our version of fun. Let's look at their banlist philosophy and consider Flash, Protean Hulk, Thassa's Oracle and Demonic Consultation/Tainted Pact:

Cause severe resource imbalances

Flash is 2cmc; Oracle + Consult is 3cmc. CHECK

Allow players to win out of nowhere

Flash/Hulk and Oracle/Consult can both be dropped with very little telegraphing and no boardstate. CHECK

Prevent players from contributing to the game in a meaningful way

People will delay their turn 2-4 plays to deal with an impending Flash. CHECK

Cause other players to feel they must play certain cards, even though they are also problematic

The types of hate getting played for Flash & Consult often don't coexist on the same card and other hate is getting eschewed because it doesn't affect Flash/Consult or actively hinders other players from stopping it. CHECK

Are very difficult for other players to interact with, especially if doing so requires dedicated, narrow responses when deck-building

If you're not playing board hate for Flash/Consult then you'd better either be playing blue or pray they don't cast Silence or whip out a Grand Abolisher. CHECK

Interact poorly with the multiplayer nature of the format or the specific rules of Commander

To be realistic this one doesn't earn a check since there's 3x the odds to stop a Flash/Hulk or an Oracle/Consult. HOWEVER an argument can be made that the odds are balanced since those 3 other players are also at risk of being stopped and the Flash/Consult player can possibly wait until the interaction has been spent.

Lead to repetitive game play

Every UBx deck can now jam Oracle/Consult as an easy two-card Monte that doesn't require a cantrip and can't be removed in response to the win. CHECK

Oh, but cEDH is just too small of a community to matter. Let's just ignore our own philosophies because the ones presenting valid arguments aren't in the majority of players having their version of fun.

It's pretty unfortunate; of course the majority of people here are on the same page regarding approach to EDH (ie cEDH) as well as on the stance of banning flash, the RC and General EDH community likely won't see many of the arguments made here.

What's MORE unfortunate is that discussions over in r/EDH regarding flash that involve people solely in the EDH realm have demonstrated that even in the casual community, players agree that flash is toxic and should be banned. Yet the RC (I'm not singling only Sheldon out) act as if these people have said nothing even though they are from the casual side of commander and want nothing to do with cEDH.

We see time and again that they are doing this for the greater EDH community and will not ban a card for competitive balance. But on my perusal of the many threads on both subs as well as play at a few different LGSs in three different states, I have seen a SIGNIFICANT (probably under 10) people argue for keeping flash specifically.

Very, very frustrating that the RC/CAG seems so distant from its player base.

I guess in the upside, kudos to those in the cEDH community for their continued lines of communication with the RC/CAG in trying to serve as a voice for this (awesome) community.

—-————————————————————— As a semi-unrelated note, in the inordinate amount of commander content I digest on Twitch, YouTube and IRL games I don't think that I have yet to see Flash (or even Hulk) deployed in a game or on a channel that features solely EDH content. Pretty funny how the banning of Flash would probably be so little to the more casual community, yet all the arguments from the RC/CAG act like we're asking to remove something important in that community.

SIGH

Wow, I mean I disliked the man. But wow, it is impressive how much less respect I have for this man by the article.

So he's here to educate us, not alienating us. Okay Sheldon. Yes, educate our feeble minds because none of us have clearly understood the true problem here. Let the ex level 5 judge explain it. The ego of this man I tell you.

His first argument is the slippery slope argument. First of all, there's no precedent that the Cedh community would ask for more. In fact, the Cedh community had been fairly quiet until Thassas oracle. It's just fear mongering, honestly.

Second of all, even if the Cedh community asks for more; so what? Why does that matter in the slightest regarding the banning of flash? Cards should be banned by necessity and not a "I don't want to deal with people in the future so I'm not gonna do anything which might force to do so" He then states that precedents can be a dangerous thing. Is it such a bad thing to throw a small part of your community a bone sometimes? Is it a bad precedent to say "we're looking out for the entire community and we mean it"? Because let's face it, the cedh community has never gotten anything before. I don't know why the RC treats cedh as if its made of fire. Are they afraid people would come to like cedh? It almost looks like it at this point.

Third of all; why is it a problem when people asks for more? Is it too much work? Isn't it a good thing when people are active in the community?

A quote from Sheldon below

"As with many things, the issue is well more complicated than anyone who engages in polemics might assert.

Yes, the issue is more complicated. And yet he doesn't care to explain it. I'm going to give it straight; the issue is not some deep philosophical questions and it is dishonest to say otherwise.

We have a card which is tearing competitive games apart.

This card meets all the criteria for previous banned cards

Yet it is not banned and the only explanation is "we don't want people to ask for more if we ban it" is people asking for more such a format breaking thing? Is the whole of edh going to come crumbling down because people are expressing their opinions?

I want Sheldon to explain the complicated issues in depth.

The irony here is that the cEDH community has been asking for Flash to be banned ever since Hulk was unbanned. We've overwhelmingly known that FlashHulk's lines were going to be problematic longterm for the format.

On the other ends of the spectrum, casuals want cards banned every set not because it's bad for the format, but for their individual playgroup.