Secret Lair

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Inkeyes22
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Post by Inkeyes22 » 4 years ago

There seems to be a lot of these things now... I tried to look for a place to talk about the Secret Lairs specifically, but didn't find it so here I am.

Here are the links for completeness:

https://secretlair.wizards.com/us/drop-series

https://secretlair.wizards.com/us/produ ... of-the-rat

https://secretlair.wizards.com/us/theros-stargazing

They announced another one here: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2020-02-25 This will be available March 8th.

Thalia is getting her own too on March 12th? This is crazy: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2020-02-28

April Fool's Day Another one already? https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... mpiled-and date TBD

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2020-04-24 May 7th

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2020-05-25 beginning in June another one drops.

I'll update this post as more get announced.
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Post by Inkeyes22 » 4 years ago

I find myself wanting one or two of them but not all of them, and in this case $50 for Captain Sisay is just too much.

I did buy the Year of the Rat, but kinda wish I would have just picked up Ink-Eyes solo for $12.

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Post by Atraxian » 4 years ago

Up to date the only one that interested me was the Ur-Dragon single, but after seeing a hi-res version of the art I decided to not even buy it as a single.
I hope that the secret lairs were somethign they would do once in a while, but it seems they are pushing them once a month. 4 months, 4 Secret Lair releases so far.
Moreover, if they are starting with releases for yearly celebrations (chinese new year and now women's day) expect Wizards to do it for next year and all years afterwards as long as the product remains profitable.

At this point the only one that might interest me are the inevitable Secret Lairs that have angels in them, even then, I'll just buy the singles for my collection as I can't be bothered to try and resell all the extra junk to make up for customs expenses.
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Post by SocorroTortoise » 4 years ago

I've liked and picked up a few of them so far. The newest one I'm undecided on. I like the card choices, I like the art, I don't really like borderless cards. It's probably a pass for me.
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Post by RxPhantom » 4 years ago

Yawn. I think I'll just support my LGS instead.*

*Some version of this will always be my response to these things, especially if they're just going to fill them with 90% chaff.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 4 years ago

Even If someone managed to flip and sell Secret Lair cards at my LGS I still wouldn't buy them. Then again that might be Wizards of the Coast's intent to try to get the LGS to carry these card singles that don't sell due to consumers boycotting them. The danger I see here is If these Secret Lair drops happens to be brand new cards instead of alternate art reprints to where consumers have no choice but to buy into this direct-to-consumer business model that's hurting the LGS.

It's only a matter of time until that happens. I hate to even fathom that this might be their new go to for printing new cards to push the power level of eternal formats instead of printing them in Standard legal sets that end up breaking the format. Personally I would continue the Modern Horizons approach with printing overpowered cards that aren't Standard legal instead of printing them as Secret Lair drops.
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Post by Inkeyes22 » 4 years ago

RxPhantom wrote:
4 years ago
Yawn. I think I'll just support my LGS instead.*

*Some version of this will always be my response to these things, especially if they're just going to fill them with 90% chaff.
I haven't found one that I like, I mean Johnny B's Cards Comics & Sports seems pretty cool, but it is about 2 hours away, so that isn't really local. Cool Stuff Games is about an hour and change and it is pretty decent but again, not what I would call local.

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Post by Cyberium » 4 years ago

Some people got it for the stained glass PWs.

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Post by Atraxian » 4 years ago

Inkeyes22 wrote:
4 years ago
RxPhantom wrote:
4 years ago
Yawn. I think I'll just support my LGS instead.*

*Some version of this will always be my response to these things, especially if they're just going to fill them with 90% chaff.
I haven't found one that I like, I mean Johnny B's Cards Comics & Sports seems pretty cool, but it is about 2 hours away, so that isn't really local. Cool Stuff Games is about an hour and change and it is pretty decent but again, not what I would call local.
We are in a similar situation. I had one at around 40 minutes driving distance, it closed a little after I started attending Commander tournaments... Nothing else within 1 hour drive.
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Post by kirkusjones » 4 years ago

Wizards needs to include hi-res images of the art in their announcements. It's completely unacceptable that I need to wait in line on the drop site to see decent quality images of a product they're trying to convince me to buy.

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Post by bobthefunny » 4 years ago

I don't have any issue with the concept of the drops. So far they've been pretty even with current secondary market pricing, so people haven't necessarily been gaining massive value in the purchases, beyond the limited availability for the future. I know that I haven't felt the need to purchase them.

I do think the new arts is a major draw for these, and I did like a lot of the art in the initial set of of Drops, where is returned to a more old-school magic art. The rats and the Gods drops didn't really do it for me. I do find myself liking the art on this drop - though I already own all the cards, so I'm not feeling hugely pressured here.

In terms of value for this one:

Cpt. Sisay = $13
Meren = $16
Oona = $9
Narset = $1
Saskia = $4

Total = $43. So not the best of current price points?

One interesting note is that this drop appears to be non-foil, which if so would be the only way to get a non-foil Saskia.

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Post by Card Slinger J » 4 years ago

So is there a legitimate concern that releasing these Secret Lair drops as fast as they've been distributing them is making it hard for the Secondary Market to absorb the amount of variants available within the marketplace? I can't recall something similar that's happened like this before in MTG history. I have a similar concern with the Collectors Editions in Throne of Eldraine and Theros: Beyond Death where there were too many variants of the same card that the LGS wasn't able to turn a profit on.

I'm starting to think Wizards of the Coast's end goal is to dump as many new MTG products on local distributors and the LGS as they can to where they're unable to sell the product because they don't have time to determine whether or not the product is good or bad based on it's EV (Expected Value). As an end result Wizards of the Coast ends up taking advantage of local distributors and the LGS ordering less product by making sure that they have less margins to work with.
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Post by SocorroTortoise » 4 years ago

bobthefunny wrote:
4 years ago
One interesting note is that this drop appears to be non-foil, which if so would be the only way to get a non-foil Saskia.
These are foil. It specifies it if you enter the sale on the secret lair site.
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Post by Hermes_ » 4 years ago

That new art for Sisay gives off a Mulan vibe.
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Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

I find the secret lair product to be deeply worrying. They're releasing them constantly, with artificially narrow windows to give customers a sense of urgency and the inability to see how the prices will shake out in any meaningful way, cutting out LGSs, and selling what are essentially premium cosmetic upgrades...Gee, does that maybe sound like the predatory practice of another, perhaps related, industry? Nah, clearly just my imagination.

On the other hand, as someone who doesn't care for foils and already owns the cards, it doesn't really affect me in a meaningful way. I won't buy them and wotc can make extra cash off whales. So right now, they just annoy me.

That annoyance will quickly turn to blinding rage if they start putting exclusives in these.

Luckily, there's definitely not a pattern of WotC using functionally unique cards to boost the sales of otherwise unpopular products...like BaB promos, or brawl precons, or game nights, or theme boosters...
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Post by Atraxian » 4 years ago

Shush, don't voice those concerns or you will be inundated by people saying "don't like it, don't buy it", "they are already preying on people with gambling issues, so it is fine" and "it is not made for you". :P

I wouldn't be surprised if WotC decided to start by putting staples that they won't reprint in another few years, like fetch lands (Secret Leir Fetch, 5 lairs, 1 enemy and 1 ally fetch each for 40$ a box)

Then put "preview" cards from sets they will release only half a year later (similar to "preview" cards they had in some duel decks)

Then eventually put mechanically unique cards.
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Post by Kelzam » 4 years ago

bobthefunny wrote:
4 years ago
I don't have any issue with the concept of the drops. So far they've been pretty even with current secondary market pricing, so people haven't necessarily been gaining massive value in the purchases, beyond the limited availability for the future. I know that I haven't felt the need to purchase them.

I do think the new arts is a major draw for these, and I did like a lot of the art in the initial set of of Drops, where is returned to a more old-school magic art. The rats and the Gods drops didn't really do it for me. I do find myself liking the art on this drop - though I already own all the cards, so I'm not feeling hugely pressured here.

In terms of value for this one:

Cpt. Sisay = $13
Meren = $16
Oona = $9
Narset = $1
Saskia = $4

Total = $43. So not the best of current price points?

One interesting note is that this drop appears to be non-foil, which if so would be the only way to get a non-foil Saskia.
It says they're foil on the Secret Lair website, so based on the cheapest versions available:

Sisay: $18 (ftv)
Meren: $17 (cmd a2)
Oona: $15 (ftv)
Narset: $10 (ktk foil)
Saskia: $4

Total = $66.

That aside, I like all the new artwork myself, and it's also benefiting a good cause. I can live with them not all having crazy value like the Stargazing Secret Lair bundle, given that half of the proceeds are going to charity.
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Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

Atraxian wrote:
4 years ago
Shush, don't voice those concerns or you will be inundated by people saying "don't like it, don't buy it", "they are already preying on people with gambling issues, so it is fine" and "it is not made for you". :P

I wouldn't be surprised if WotC decided to start by putting staples that they won't reprint in another few years, like fetch lands (Secret Leir Fetch, 5 lairs, 1 enemy and 1 ally fetch each for 40$ a box)

Then put "preview" cards from sets they will release only half a year later (similar to "preview" cards they had in some duel decks)

Then eventually put mechanically unique cards.
Are you referring to Zurgo? I didn't really follow duel decks very closely but that's the only one I can think of that predated the normal release (I think). And I thought it was only by a few weeks or so.

Anyway I doubt they'll make those baby steps. And while it doesn't personally bother me, they've been pretty reticent to reprint much of value, and when they do it tends to be very expensive (see ultimate masters). So I suspect that if they do reprint fetches in one, it won't be $40.

Honestly I'm concerned they'll start putting exclusives in these within the next couple sets. There was ONE round of theme boosters before they started shoving exclusives in them. I'm half surprised they haven't already started shoving exclusives into these.
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Post by Atraxian » 4 years ago

https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Preview_card has a list of the preview cards.
They weren't really high profile cards, at least.

The "half a year later" was implying something on the lines of: "this card is available at the start of the year on Secret Lairs, but won't be widely printed until summer/fall in their Horizons product (or similar)"
I have a bad habit of not wording my trains of thought, sot it comes out as if I took a little too many logic leaps.

I wouldn't mind them putting silver border exclusives like the holiday cards or collaboration cards like transformers or mlp. It would be nothing new.
New tournament legal cards is where I draw the line, and I'm hoping against hope that WotC won't cross it that soon.
Yet, as you mentioned, their track records is not reassuring in the least.
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Post by Dragoon » 4 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
4 years ago
There was ONE round of theme boosters before they started shoving exclusives in them. I'm half surprised they haven't already started shoving exclusives into these.
Are you sure about the exclusive cards in Theros collector packs? I don't remember any. If you're talking about the cards that don't appear in classic draft boosters, they can appear in either Planeswalker Decks or Theme Boosters (and of course the Buy-a-Box promo).

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Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

Dragoon wrote:
4 years ago
Are you sure about the exclusive cards in Theros collector packs? I don't remember any. If you're talking about the cards that don't appear in classic draft boosters, they can appear in either Planeswalker Decks or Theme Boosters (and of course the Buy-a-Box promo).
I said theme boosters, not collector packs.

Happily collectors boosters don't...unless you count the bab promo, which I do, because it's the only way to get it non-foil.
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Post by Dragoon » 4 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
4 years ago
Dragoon wrote:
4 years ago
Are you sure about the exclusive cards in Theros collector packs? I don't remember any. If you're talking about the cards that don't appear in classic draft boosters, they can appear in either Planeswalker Decks or Theme Boosters (and of course the Buy-a-Box promo).
I said theme boosters, not collector packs.

Happily collectors boosters don't...unless you count the bab promo, which I do, because it's the only way to get it non-foil.
My bad, it seems I'm too tired to read properly. :sleepy:
Didn't theme boosters already exist for Guilds of Ravnica though? And I don't remember Eldraine having exclusive rares in their theme boosters. Still, that doesn't make that big of a difference anyway.

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Post by Atraxian » 4 years ago

Exclusive cards in theme boosters were added in Theros, Beyond Death, so they are as recent as an addition as you can get.

iirc theme boosters were retired for a while before returning recently, didn't they?
EDIT: nevermind. Thet started with Dominaria and I just ignored them throughout the Ravnica 3 block so I forgot they existed until Eldraine.
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Post by Gashnaw » 4 years ago

There were two i wanted but i did not have the money unfortunately. Rats and the Rainbow legends.

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Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

Dragoon wrote:
4 years ago
My bad, it seems I'm too tired to read properly. :sleepy:
Didn't theme boosters already exist for Guilds of Ravnica though? And I don't remember Eldraine having exclusive rares in their theme boosters. Still, that doesn't make that big of a difference anyway.
Whoa, I had no idea. First I remember hearing about them was with the "project booster fun" article. I just assumed they were a brand new thing.

I don't really pay much attention to supplementary products: if I can't draft it, IDGAF. Exception for the commander precons, but honestly with all the other exclusive supplementary crap, commander precons are seeming less like an exciting change of pace and more like yet another chore.
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Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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