Do you intentionally misplay/hold back?

[Outcryqq]

The only time I intentionally misplay or hold back is when I'm at a table and I realize that my deck might be significantly more powerful than the rest of the table. For example, if I have a tuned list and I figure out I'm playing against precons.

[PrimevalCommander]

If I find survival of the fittest in my openening hand. I won't purposfully tutor a combo win as early as possible. The debate is if tutoring the combo as soon as possible is indeed the "best play". Also I occasionally make plays I know aren't the most optimal for the sake of the game.

Overall I do like to make competent plays and use threat assessment. So I voted "Sometimes", as it does come up where I slow my strategy and try to build a better foundation instead of full glass-cannon-win-mode all the time.

I have been meaning to try more politics and deal making in my next games. Whenever those may be...

Came back to add that revenge plays actively help you LOSE games. If targeting the player to slighted you isn't the right play, then your just making things unfun for you and them. Plus revenge plays can easily devolve into a grudge match of attacks and permission that just king-makes someone else on the sidelines.

[Airi]

There is literally no worse feeling to me, than coming out of a game (especially if I won, but even if not), only to have someone show their hand and mention that they had an early chance to win and just didn't take it. It very seriously invalidates the entire game for me, because we essentially played a fake round in my mind. Yes, maybe someone had answers and that person might not have won early, but it's just insulting to the rest of the table's ability to play the game to not play to the best of your ability.

Regardless of your deck building philosophy, the RC's stance has been somewhere along the lines of "Build like a timmy, play like a spike". To not play to the best of your ability when it comes to winning is a huge disservice to the people you're playing with. If winning due to tutoring is an issue for you, maybe alter your deck's construction and the type of tutors.

I'm also not saying that trying to bait out answers or whatever is in the same category. Trying to win in a smart way is different than intentionally whiffing so that you don't have to feel bad at the expense of everyone else's feelings and ability.

Edit: I also don't think spite plays, silly plays, or revenge are necessarily mutually exclusive with this idea. I've done all of them before, but I try to make sure that doing so still advances my position within the game and isn't unnecessarily putting someone else in a good position to win from, and that typically I'm only doing it when I'm not currently in a position to close out the game anyways.

[Sharpened]

There is literally no worse feeling to me, than coming out of a game (especially if I won, but even if not), only to have someone show their hand and mention that they had an early chance to win and just didn't take it. It very seriously invalidates the entire game for me, because we essentially played a fake round in my mind. Yes, maybe someone had answers and that person might not have won early, but it's just insulting to the rest of the table's ability to play the game to not play to the best of your ability.

While I wouldn't advocate playing in a manner where you have the win and don't take it, isn't the problem here the reveal following the game? Obviously, Rule 0 and competitiveness levels is a consideration, but if you find an "oops I win" line of play, I can see arguments in a more casual setting to not take in order to have a more fun game. But if you reveal you did that following the game, that's the jerk move (in my opinion).

[BaronCappuccino]

If I'm guaranteed to win, and if my deck is miserable to play against- stax or something- then I'll do my best to dial it to 11 rather than win as soon as possible. Neither of these conditions are ever true anymore. My opponents are better than me most of the time and I don't play unfun decks. I had a griefer phase though.

[Maluko]

There are no right or wrong plays in Commander games. There are, however, hold-back-plays and it's important to distinguish these two concepts. Holding back is when you know that doing X is the correct choice that advances your win, but instead you opt to do Y, which doesn't advance your win, and sometimes may actually be detrimental to it. Holding back is, I think, the real topic of this thread.

Side note: I don't think playing for revenge is necessarily a bad play. As explained previously, playing for revenge is a political play derived from an opponent focusing too much attention on disrupting your gameplay. When discussing the issue is not enough, fighting back is the only way to stop said opponent from going for your throat. This is often dismissed as a "revenge" play, but in reality there is a whole social game happening under the radar that does influence your probability to win.

I always play to win the game, make all my decisions based on this objective, and I despise opponents that enter a game with a different mindset. There are a few exceptions, though, such as purposefully holding back a game-winning play to, instead, make an epic move that will dazzle the audience. Or face an interesting deck and wanting to see more of that deck's strategy.

I will never hold back if I have an early win in my hand. I don't run infinite combos in my decks, so if I have an early win, that means I'm probably playing an aggro deck. If a deck's main goal is to defeat players fast, why would I deny myself from doing that? That would be unfulfilling.

[Airi]

While I wouldn't advocate playing in a manner where you have the win and don't take it, isn't the problem here the reveal following the game? Obviously, Rule 0 and competitiveness levels is a consideration, but if you find an "oops I win" line of play, I can see arguments in a more casual setting to not take in order to have a more fun game. But if you reveal you did that following the game, that's the jerk move (in my opinion).

I suppose, technically, you are correct. I do not know I've played a pointless game if I dont know that someone held back the information that they could have ended it early. On principle however, no. The problem is still not respecting your opponents enough to end it if you are able. Sometimes, magical Christmas land does happen. It is a part of the game. To me, it is the ultimate sign of disrespect to softball your opponents and I view it as an utterly patronizing mindset. There are steps you can take in deck building to minimize those scenarios from potentially occurring, and I believe that's where they should be avoided, not during the actual game.

[SocorroTortoise]

Voted sometimes. I generally play to win, with concessions to entertainment and table enjoyment being made in the deckbuilding stage. I'll make occasional exceptions for plays that look like they're going to be particularly entertaining even if they're not the most correct line. Revenge or holding back early wins aren't things I'm interested in and I hope that none of the people I play with are doing that either.

[NZB2323]

I voted sometimes. I try to play at the same power level as the table, but if I'm at a higher power level and win early than I can switch to a less powerful deck. Also, if all my opponents are getting mana screwed you can argue the most merciful thing you can do is end the game so you can go to the next game, but occasionally I'll hold back.

[toctheyounger]

PS, I don't think early disruption vs mana is necessarily bad.
Not at all, but the example was Wayfarer's bauble being countered out of spite. Half a cultivate for the same cmc hardly seems worth countering.

Yep, don't disagree either. I'd totally counter a Tempt with Discovery or whatever. This was just a stupid annoying play, and he should've saved himself the effort. It was a bad play. The deck I was playing with does reanimation loops and can easily get the Bauble back for nothing anyway, so it was less than a 1:1 trade for them. Anyway, thread derailed long enough

[Candlemane]

Just Wednesday I held back from winning on turn four or five because we were there having a good time, even if there was a pack on the line as a small incentive. I'll pull punches in the interst of a good game if I'm clearly ahead somehow and able to win. I don't do it spite anyone and I'll try and go off when I think the game has gotten too dangerous, putting my win in question.

It would also depend on who's playing and what the game state is. In the game mentioned above, Rakdos Riot couldn't hit a second red source and Nicol Ravager couldn't hit land drops. Golos player ulted Aminatou and shifted out stuff turn 6, and I had Agent of Treachery in hand. In this game, I would've felt bad about just going off to win after all that, and initially I wasn't in any danger of losing.

[FoxOfWar]

I don't need to hold back my plays because I build my decks casually enough that if I actually get to go off with my untutored Rube Goldberg machine du jour I fricken deserve it. (I don't win a lot of games, heh.)

I will do the sub-par thing if it's entertaining, though, pretty much without fail.

[3drinks]

Nope. If the play of the day is Ruination, then that's what I cast. Cards go in decks for a reason, if you're not going to use them, then take them out and play cards you will make the most of.

[Sinis]

Nope. If the play of the day is Ruination, then that's what I cast. Cards go in decks for a reason, if you're not going to use them, then take them out and play cards you will make the most of.

I strongly agree with this. @PrimevalCommander's dilemma with Survival of the Fittest is why I don't play with Survival currently. Along with a host of other cards that frequently decide the game, either subtly or overtly.

[Hermes_]

I voted often because,well for an example, I run the godo/helm combo in my voltron deck,but it's never been my auto play. I know everyone in our group skill level wise,so unless I know it's a janky deck they are playing,then i'll go after them or attempt to pop off before them.

[PrimevalCommander]

Nope. If the play of the day is Ruination, then that's what I cast. Cards go in decks for a reason, if you're not going to use them, then take them out and play cards you will make the most of.

I strongly agree with this. PrimevalCommander's dilemma with Survival of the Fittest is why I don't play with Survival currently. Along with a host of other cards that frequently decide the game, either subtly or overtly.

I don't have a deck that runs Craterhoof Behemoth for this reason, despite owning 2 copies. When playing that card, its really the ONLY correct creature to look for once you get about 5+ creatures in play. There are still powerful cards I will use "differently" depending on how the game is going.

Most of my decks run an infinite combo because the individual cards are useful to the deck, and I rarely tutor for combo pieces for the explicit purpose of combo-ing. That doesn't stop me from playing tutors in my decks. I just use them to advance my position in a different way. This is a big reason why Tutors are so divisive in the format.

[Sinis]

That doesn't stop me from playing tutors in my decks. I just use them to advance my position in a different way. This is a big reason why Tutors are so divisive in the format.

I have trouble resisting going for the win, so I play next to no combos. My group has gotten a little more cutthroat lately, though, so we're beginning to dust off cards that I would have ruled out for being too powerful in previous years.

[toctheyounger]

Nope. If the play of the day is Ruination, then that's what I cast. Cards go in decks for a reason, if you're not going to use them, then take them out and play cards you will make the most of.

Yep, strong agree. If it's a feelsbad card that's gonna sit in your hand not getting cast it literally might as well be any other card you would play. An extra land even. If you have issues with sending beats downwards pick another deck or take the offending cards out of your deck.

This is the reason I try to cultivate a collection with a range of decks at different tiers. Some are flexible, some game fairly hard, some destroy lands here and there, some are jank theme decks, it just depends what the table agrees to.

[Outcryqq]

To the people saying that they won't hold back, and citing specific cards like Ruination, Craterhoof Behemoth, and tutors, I'd like to clarify my own stance: I hold back when using a deck that I find too strong for the pod I'm in, not just a card. If I think all decks are similar in power level, or at least that we are not dramatically different, then I'll play all cards without pulling any punches.

[toctheyounger]

To the people saying that they won't hold back, and citing specific cards like Ruination, Craterhoof Behemoth, and tutors, I'd like to clarify my own stance: I hold back when using a deck that I find too strong for the pod I'm in, not just a card. If I think all decks are similar in power level, or at least that we are not dramatically different, then I'll play all cards without pulling any punches.

For myself, I try to pick a deck that scales to the table. It's fairly rare there's something in a deck I've built that has a significant outlier like say Craterhoof Behemoth or Blightsteel Colossus or what have you so usually it's fine. Occasionally I might upset someone (my wife is in that group) but mostly it works just fine.

[NGW]

I won't intentionally misplay, but there are times I'll hold something back. If I'm teaching someone I will likely slow roll a game when it comes to threats, tutors, acceleration and the like. Sometimes in testing I may draw things out until I can draw into a card I want to try out, or if I know someone else is trying to test something I may hold off on ending the game or taking them out or something like that. In general play however, I won't intentionally misplay and I won't hold anything back.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

I'll definitely make subpar plays for revenge. I like to imagine the average game as four mighty armies colliding Peter Jackson style, so sometimes I get carried away and melodramatically vow revenge over something just to entertain myself. It doesn't usually last beyond repaying the minor injury in kind with a card with the most satisfactory "vengeance" flavor text I can play/find.

[ilovesaprolings]

I used to do that with feels bad card that won alone and out of nowhere, like Insurrection and Craterhoof Behemoth . I have took away these kind of cards from my deck, so i don't to that anymore.

[Dunharrow]

When I play with friends I will sometimes do the funny thing. Otherwise, I try to play to the best of my ability.

[Cyberium]

A necro, but a lively topic for discussion, no? ^_^

I hold back on my moves a lot just to ensure the game can go on.