That isn't so much gray as...

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Inkeyes22
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Post by Inkeyes22 » 4 years ago

So if you would indulge me, what "morally gray" plays have you seen? I am not talking about the guy that draws 2 cards when people aren't looking or the new player that asks for a take-back every turn, but some real head scratchers. Situations that felt off, but maybe not wrong enough to make a stink about.

For example, you are playing against Adam, Brian, and Camille. Adam is playing Erebos, Bleak-Hearted with lots of token generators and Gravepact style cards. Brian is playing Talrand, Sky Summoner with what seems like 50 counterspells. Camille is playing Faceless Menace (C19 Sultai B/U/G precon) unmodified. You are playing a typical Karador list. The play order is Adam, Brian, Camille, you.

Brian keeps countering all your spells. He even let Adam land Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder with a Dictate of Erebos and commander on the board. The next turn he counters your Acidic Slime.

Camille is unable to keep anything except Trail of Mystery and 9 lands on the board because of Adam's creature lock. Adam doesn't look like he is going to be able to threaten a win any time soon. Brian has 7 Islands and 4 cards in hand, no chance of winning any time soon either. You have 8 lands no cards in hand, 10 creatures in your graveyard but commander tax is +6 at this point. If you could stick your commander there are several creatures you could cast from graveyard.

Is this collusion? Is this payback from beating Adam and Brian in previous games? Are they taking it easy on Camille because she is playing a precon? What are some examples of situations that have come up in your games at a lgs or similar situation?

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

I try to avoid passing too much judgement on other people's threat assessment without knowing all the facts. Brian (btw imo p1, p2 etc is way easier to track than names...or commander names work.) could have some hidden information that makes Adam less of a threat than you. Or he thinks he needs Adam to rein in things he doesn't think he can, or pit you against each other. Or he's using info he has about your decks - maybe Erebus is overall quite weak, and you've won repeatedly. . I'd really have to know his plan before passing any judgment. Multiplayer can make strange plays reasonable.

All I can really say is that yes, bad enemy threat assessment that hurts you can be frustrating. As can outright collusion. But it's hard to be sure what's happening without first hand experience.
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ilovesaprolings
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Post by ilovesaprolings » 4 years ago

I don't know honestly. Brian is either a genius or a terrible dumb guy.
Maybe Adam isn't a threat for him because with just a simple cyclonic rift he can screw his token deck hard. Maybe his wincons don't care about creatures or board presence because they are all instant combo.
Or maybe he's just dumb for the sake of being dumb.
I'd wait the end the match. If Brian win, i say bravo. If Brian lose spectacularly, i'll make sure to mock him until the end of his days.

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Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

Morally gray is when the Oona deck Cy Rifts in response to your Korvold's Wildfire - turning a play that would have won a game swiftly into a reset with nothing else on the board.

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Post by Sinis » 4 years ago

As presented, this could be anything from collusion to bad threat assessment, to people just being... unfriendly?

You generally have three avenues: Suck it up, stop playing with them, or talking with them (usually after the game) about their in-game decisions.

I almost always lean towards the last option, but, I will exercise the first two if presented with no recourse (especially once we've exercised option three).

I'm lucky that my group is *very* communicative, and we ask if some plays or cards go too far.

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hyalopterouslemur
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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 4 years ago

I think the question is one of threat assessment more than anything. Like if an infect creature or an Eldrazi is on the table, guess what? You have a target. If there's a card that makes no sense in this deck, it's a combo piece and you have a target. After those two threats, we can start talking about control players.

If I see consistently bad threat assessment, I cry foul.
Thanks to Feyd_Ruin for the avatar!

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3drinks
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Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

hyalopterouslemur wrote:
4 years ago
I think the question is one of threat assessment more than anything. Like if an infect creature or an Eldrazi is on the table, guess what? You have a target. If there's a card that makes no sense in this deck, it's a combo piece and you have a target. After those two threats, we can start talking about control players.

If I see consistently bad threat assessment, I cry foul.
To be fair, my threat assessment puts anyone with the propensity of generating U above anything that anyone else can or will do that cannot create U. And surprise, if I don't, then that's the player that wins.

inb4 I'm terrible at this because I always hammer the same type of player first.

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hyalopterouslemur
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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 4 years ago

Well, that...actually makes sense.
Thanks to Feyd_Ruin for the avatar!

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