What do I do with a timetwister? Advice and brainstorming!

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

So, I've long desired a timetwister as the last really expensive card I have much interest in playing (May still grab a candelabra at some point, dunno) -- I finally scored one this week, and I would love your thoughts on what to do with it. Put it in a deck I have, build a new deck ,whatever. Generally assume I can find most cards, no real budget limitations.

Here's my current stable of decks:

Potentially on the block

https://deckbox.org/sets/2466403 -- Aminatou esper control with some miracles and some reanimator and blinking fatties, little combo finish. Reanimator kinda discourages timetwisting, but the combo element can take advantage, and I do play notion thief.

https://deckbox.org/sets/2467360 -- Golos mono black, can't really play it. This is my edict control with big mana black spells deck.

https://deckbox.org/sets/2423059 -- Golos mono white enchantments, my light stax white enchantment combo deck with some big mana white stuff and blinks. Can't timetwister of course.

https://deckbox.org/sets/2471549 -- Tymna and Ludevic Affinity -- can play it but probably doesn't want to since it abuses the graveyard a good amount, and tries to stay on the robots theme pretty heavily.

https://deckbox.org/sets/1368747 -- Gitrog CEDH-ish (not quite full on but close enough) -- obviously can't play it. I am debating taking this deck apart for the staples that'd go in a Bug or UG control deck with maybe twister. Has a lot of the core pieces to Tymna/Thrasios in it, and also Rashmi which I kinda like. I just rarely get to play it and mostly dislike how shuffle hulk makes counterspells so relevant.

Permish decks

https://deckbox.org/sets/665530 -- Ephara combo control with hatebears. This deck could probably play it, but it has some graveyard shenanigans and also really doesn't need the CA that much for the most part. Still, it could be good.

https://deckbox.org/sets/2383669 -- Maelstrom Wanderer / Omnath Locus of the Roil landfall. This deck could probably use twister, minimal graveyard shenanigans outside of Loam/Seasons Past. Wheels are great with MW. Deck makes a lot of mana and has lots of very good cards. I have mostly eschewed wheels though, so I don't think it belongs.

For the most part I am thinking about building a new deck, and any of the decks other than the bottom 2 could be cannibalized if you have an idea that would use some of the cards.

Any ideas?

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cryogen
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Post by cryogen » 4 years ago

You should buy the Candelabra and build a cEDH storm list.

I've been struggling to find a home for my copy also, and think I'm just gonna build a goodstuff bant deck for it.
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Post by Sinis » 4 years ago

The last deck (I think) I played it in was Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar.

The deck was basically 'drop everything, then draw 7'; all the modern Moxen, top tier mana rocks (I think Mind Stone was the absolute worst one in the deck), pitch spells, some bounce, and also every blue draw-7 ever printed up until that point (this was years ago, though; pre-Origins, Time Reversal would have been the last one printed). Resolving a draw-7 with Tomorrow means you basically take the best of three, seven times, giving you pretty ample opportunity to draw whatever you want. Writing about it kind of makes me want to rebuild it, since there are new playable ones, though I don't think it'd be welcome in my group.

From among your decks, I would say Wanderer wants it the most, though I would play something like Overflowing Insight ahead of it.

Timetwister really does demand to be in a particular kind of deck.

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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

cryogen wrote:
4 years ago
You should buy the Candelabra and build a cEDH storm list.

I've been struggling to find a home for my copy also, and think I'm just gonna build a goodstuff bant deck for it.
Storm is one of those concepts that really appeals to me in the abstract but rarely in practice. But I do love candelabra.

I saw a Rashmi storm that I like, but some part of me thinks Twister really needs to be in a notion thief / Narset deck.
Sinis wrote:
4 years ago
Timetwister really does demand to be in a particular kind of deck.
Yeah, that is for sure. I have played a lot of wheels in the past, but haven't for quite a while.

I do like it a lot as an infinite mana loop option for Tasigur / Thrasios, given how efficient it is slot-wise, plus basically a wincon combo with notion thief/narset. The issue mostly is I think it's somewhat hardcore for that kinda deck

I do think wheels can be pretty good in goodstuff, so Cryo's idea of some kinda goodstuff deck might be fun too.
Last edited by pokken 4 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

It's best suited for storm decks obviously and often these entail all the expensive fast mana rocks to try and dump your hand in the first and second turn to play Time Twister, Windfall, Wheel of Fortune. But it's a tried and true formula and it's not impressing anybody honestly, so only if you can afford to splash potentially further cash to enjoy the solitaire style of play.

I personally think that from your current decks the Aminatou would be suited with the Notion Thief and Smothering Tithe. But there are a lot of nonbos as well with graveyard shenanigans, so not exactly perfect.
If you were to add it then Narset, Parter of Veils should be an inclusion.

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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

darrenhabib wrote:
4 years ago
It's best suited for storm decks obviously and often these entail all the expensive fast mana rocks to try and dump your hand in the first and second turn to play Time Twister, Windfall, Wheel of Fortune. But it's a tried and true formula and it's not impressing anybody honestly, so only if you can afford to splash potentially further cash to enjoy the solitaire style of play.

I personally think that from your current decks the Aminatou would be suited with the Notion Thief and Smothering Tithe. But there are a lot of nonbos as well with graveyard shenanigans, so not exactly perfect.
If you were to add it then Narset, Parter of Veils should be an inclusion.
That's a pretty good point. I could always up the rocks a little. One challenge with that deck is it's almost always full gripped so rarely wants to dump it, but there're a lot of times where it's a draw 7 away from winning -- it makes infinite mana sometimes, and wheels + infinite are a pretty good thing usually.

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Post by umtiger » 4 years ago

You could always build a Nekusar or Niv Mizzet deck?

I have also wanted to build a wheel deck with Smothering Tithe. Resolving a wheel with tithe + Akiri is something that I want to eventually do.

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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

umtiger wrote:
4 years ago
You could always build a Nekusar or Niv Mizzet deck?

I have also wanted to build a wheel deck with Smothering Tithe. Resolving a wheel with tithe + Akiri is something that I want to eventually do.
I really do like the Parun niv. He's got a ton of inevitability. No notion thief is the only major downside I think.

I like the idea of smothering tithe a lot too, had a ton of fun with that one in the decks I have it in. Feels like that's a combo pretty surely to end most games heh.

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Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

I've played my copy once, in alexi, zephyr mage. Bounce all their stuff while discarding, then put their stuff into their deck while refilling your hand in one fell swoop.

I mean the deck was kind of terrible but it was a funny combo.
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Post by cryogen » 4 years ago

Sinis wrote:
4 years ago
The last deck (I think) I played it in was Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar.

The deck was basically 'drop everything, then draw 7'; all the modern Moxen, top tier mana rocks (I think Mind Stone was the absolute worst one in the deck), pitch spells, some bounce, and also every blue draw-7 ever printed up until that point (this was years ago, though; pre-Origins, Time Reversal would have been the last one printed). Resolving a draw-7 with Tomorrow means you basically take the best of three, seven times, giving you pretty ample opportunity to draw whatever you want. Writing about it kind of makes me want to rebuild it, since there are new playable ones, though I don't think it'd be welcome in my group.
I can't tell you how many times I've looked at my copy of Tomorrow and wanted to build it or find a slot and just don't. It's been a bunch.
pokken wrote:
4 years ago
Storm is one of those concepts that really appeals to me in the abstract but rarely in practice. But I do love candelabra.

I saw a Rashmi storm that I like, but some part of me thinks Twister really needs to be in a notion thief / Narset deck.
Agreed. It's such a durdly play-with-yourself archetype that I very rarely play it. I have almost everything I need to netdeck any cEDH storm list (minus Grim Tutor/Imperial Seal) so every once in a while I'll goldfish it, but in practice I get bored of the deck once it's successfully gone off once. I do like the idea of pairing it with Narset. I'm running her in my Muldrotha deck, but that's a nonbo most of the time, much like your dilemma.
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Post by Sinis » 4 years ago

cryogen wrote:
4 years ago
I can't tell you how many times I've looked at my copy of Tomorrow and wanted to build it or find a slot and just don't. It's been a bunch.
I mean, it's not a great card at 5U. You'd need to draw a crapton of cards while it's on the table to make it worthwhile, an that's an uphill battle with a six mana general.

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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

I don't mind the idea of of doing it with underrealm lich either, as kind of a more fun for me tomorrow ;)

Maybe a 4c "I'm gonna wheel and screw with everybody's draws" with alms collector, notion thief, smothering tithe, spirit of the labyrinth, underrealm lich, consecrated sphinx, chains of mephistopheles, etc. Might be trying to do too much, and not being in red feels maybe not the best though.

People also are not in love with getting mind twisted; although the one time I notion thief+time spiral'd in Aminatou the game ended instantly so it wasn't so bad (I drew into Oath of Teferi and GG).

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 4 years ago

In general, wheels work really well with fast mana and tempo style of plays. Look at strategies that involve casting a lot of cards in the 0-2 mana mark that burn out their hands and generally speaking you have found a strategy that would love some wheels. Some amount of these decks are combo decks but you can build a tempo deck that isn't combo as well.

The last blue wheel heavy decks I have looked at were Sai, Master Thopterist (cheap artifacts build focusing on some big draw payoffs), and Grand Arbiter Augustin IV (I was looking at a Persistent Petitioners build with wheels that slows opponents while tempoing its own hand to play).

Outside of blue I did an Edgar Markov list where wheels are great at as well. Move a lot of cards quickly and smash that wheel button to take advantage of anyone who hasn't burned out their hands.
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Post by Sinis » 4 years ago

pokken wrote:
4 years ago
Maybe a 4c "I'm gonna wheel and screw with everybody's draws" with alms collector, notion thief, smothering tithe, spirit of the labyrinth, underrealm lich, consecrated sphinx, chains of mephistopheles, etc. Might be trying to do too much, and not being in red feels maybe not the best though.
There are many more draw effects than when I last played Timetwister and similar cards. I appreciate these ideas.

For backup, you can also use Windfall and Whispering Madness.

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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 4 years ago

Storm is a useful build, or draw triggers. (There's a reason Nekusar has a lot of cards that seem just like a chaos deck.) Time Spiral is actually better. (This reminds me of my aborted attempt to do theme decks based around Teen Titans. For Nightwing, Time Spiral was a card I considered because it's better than a famous broken card in this format, the concept being "better than Batman". The whole idea fell apart when I remembered they're like the X-Men, with >100 characters.)

Wheels are generally good for aggro strategies, since your hand empties very quickly.
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Post by Sinis » 4 years ago

hyalopterouslemur wrote:
4 years ago
Wheels are generally good for aggro strategies, since your hand empties very quickly.
Not disputing what you're saying, but I was always wary that you'd let someone draw into a sweeper with symmetrical draw-7s. So much so that I haven't played Wheel of Fortune in my R/x aggro decks, and have instead resorted to looting and impulsive draw mechanics...

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Post by umtiger » 4 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
4 years ago
I've played my copy once, in alexi, zephyr mage. Bounce all their stuff while discarding, then put their stuff into their deck while refilling your hand in one fell swoop.

I mean the deck was kind of terrible but it was a funny combo.
Man, oh-man, do I wish they would re-do those spell shaper legends. I even almost want to kind of play Latulla in my Nikya of Old Ways deck, but it's just too bad.
ISBPathfinder wrote:
4 years ago
The last blue wheel heavy decks I have looked at were Sai, Master Thopterist (cheap artifacts build focusing on some big draw payoffs), and Grand Arbiter Augustin IV (I was looking at a Persistent Petitioners build with wheels that slows opponents while tempoing its own hand to play).
Yes, I can imagine Timetwister being pretty ridiculous with turbo Sai.

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Post by Ardeyn » 4 years ago

Looks like you could try the Opus Thief cEDH Deck with what you so far said you liked: 4C Tymna / Kraum with all the wheels and Payoffs such as Smothering Tithe, Notion Thief, Narset, Alms Collector etc.
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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

Image

It made it. Now I gotta take your ideas and do something fun with it :) Thanks again folks.

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Post by Morganelefay » 4 years ago

While I never ran it myself (due to not acquiring it), I did ran all the varieties from Time Spiral to Day's Undoing in a Jori En, Ruin Diver deck which was based on constantly bouncing everything my opponents owned via the likes of Cyclonic Rift and then Twist their hands away. With the advent of Narset, Parter of Veils this strategy has become even more evil, you could look into this kind of setup as well. It's a slow-rolling kind of deck that uses the likes of Young Pyromancer and Talrand, Sky Summoner to gum up the ground while controlling the field until these haymakers start hitting.

While my commander of choice was Jori En, any blue-based control commander worth its salt could run this strategy. Izzet and Jeskai simply offer more ways to gum up the ground though, deterring attacks.

The best part about Timetwister here is that it's one of the very few varieties that doesn't self-exile...ensuring you can pull it off even more often if required.
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Post by schweinefett » 4 years ago

that, high tide, ghostly whisper and mystic sanctuary feels like it should be some sort of infinite loop for a storm engine. and it feels like they'd be cards that would fit into that style of deck no matter what build you try.

Congratulations on getting a piece of power though! I remember when I got my first pieces, it was definitely a strange feeling - like needing to get it to work immediately!

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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

I tried a ton of brews with twister and never got to anything I liked quite as well as my Aminatou deck, so I decided to tune that deck up a bit and put it there. Being able to drop a little fast mana and refuel with interactive cards and also use it as a wincon with notion thief/narset, and also use it to find wincons, makes it I think a pretty good card in this deck. It's debatable whether the reanimator subtheme should stick around with 3 wheel effects that shuffle, but typically the reanimation line is more of a combo-ish turn (off of intuition or a discard to handsize) so I think it'll work.

Here's how that deck looks for now, though I've got a list of other stuff I want to try (maybe entomb, maybe adding another busted rock or two for Tezz)--

Decklist
Approximate Total Cost:


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Post by Jonas Ukulore » 4 years ago

My Pir and Toothy certainly seem to enjoy Timetwister in their list. :-)
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