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toctheyounger wrote: ↑

3 years ago

materpillar wrote: ↑

3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Man, Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait might as well just have a Simic guild symbol instead of rules text. What a bland legend. Not that it's not strong, Simic gets all the goodies, but it's like literally Tatyova, Benthic Druid but at a rare slot. Simic really does need a flavour overhaul, they're virtually interchangeable at this point.

You know... thinking about it. I've always wanted to make Leviathan tribal featuring Jokulmorder and Polar Kraken. Aesi, is super boring but he might be strong enough to make that deck actually functional in a casual setting.

Yeah, no it seems good in that respect. I guess it just galls me that those colors don't need the sort of help that seems now to be synonymous with that color pairing. It just seems sort of brainless in terms of design.

I never really got that complaint. Like... they found a segment of design that works well for the color pair, and gives players what they want. And it's "brainless" because... they're not doing it the exact way you want them to? A significant part of good design *is* doing the obvious stuff, and that goes triply when it's obvious stuff that people want.

Wallycaine wrote: ↑

3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote: ↑

3 years ago

materpillar wrote: ↑

3 years ago

You know... thinking about it. I've always wanted to make Leviathan tribal featuring Jokulmorder and Polar Kraken. Aesi, is super boring but he might be strong enough to make that deck actually functional in a casual setting.

Yeah, no it seems good in that respect. I guess it just galls me that those colors don't need the sort of help that seems now to be synonymous with that color pairing. It just seems sort of brainless in terms of design.

I never really got that complaint. Like... they found a segment of design that works well for the color pair, and gives players what they want. And it's "brainless" because... they're not doing it the exact way you want them to? A significant part of good design *is* doing the obvious stuff, and that goes triply when it's obvious stuff that people want.

Alright, but show me where the transition from Vorel of the Hull Clade to Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy happened. Like, one is interesting and not busted and the other is obscene combo on a 2 mana creature. 2 freaking mana. I get that people want that sort of power, but man is it not fun to play against. Even Tatyova, Benthic Druid and Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait, they're not Kinnan bad, but they're still pretty pushed - and maybe brainless is a bit rough, but put those two side by side and tell me they're not lazy design. Also, I'd call Tatyova easily the most played uncommon commander, purely for power alone. It's just a bit silly how pushed Simic is in modern times.

FWIW I'm seriously thinking about building Gor Muldrak, Amphinologist as an interesting, non busted Simic commander that explores different design space instead of just pushing further into rampdraw.

What are people's thoughts on Gilanra, Caller of Wirewood?

On the one hand he is a ramp spell in the command zone and gives you access to green as part of your color identity.

On the other, he is a worse Llanowar Visionary until you draw your second card off of his mana. Also it seems like it would be better to rely on standard green ramp spells like Cultivate and Three Visits instead of him, since he is easy to remove.

toctheyounger wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Wallycaine wrote: ↑

3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Yeah, no it seems good in that respect. I guess it just galls me that those colors don't need the sort of help that seems now to be synonymous with that color pairing. It just seems sort of brainless in terms of design.

I never really got that complaint. Like... they found a segment of design that works well for the color pair, and gives players what they want. And it's "brainless" because... they're not doing it the exact way you want them to? A significant part of good design *is* doing the obvious stuff, and that goes triply when it's obvious stuff that people want.

Alright, but show me where the transition from Vorel of the Hull Clade to Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy happened. Like, one is interesting and not busted and the other is obscene combo on a 2 mana creature. 2 freaking mana. I get that people want that sort of power, but man is it not fun to play against. Even Tatyova, Benthic Druid and Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait, they're not Kinnan bad, but they're still pretty pushed - and maybe brainless is a bit rough, but put those two side by side and tell me they're not lazy design. Also, I'd call Tatyova easily the most played uncommon commander, purely for power alone. It's just a bit silly how pushed Simic is in modern times.

FWIW I'm seriously thinking about building Gor Muldrak, Amphinologist as an interesting, non busted Simic commander that explores different design space instead of just pushing further into rampdraw.

I mean, I can tell you they're not lazy design, but that won't make you believe me. That, more than anything, is an example of why I don't get it. You're taking two cards from two different products that accomplish two different jobs within those products and calling it "lazy design" because they happen to share an effect. Vorel of the Hull Clade and Gilder Bairn aren't "lazy design" either, but they seem to be under that philosophy.

Wallycaine wrote: ↑

3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Wallycaine wrote: ↑

3 years ago

I never really got that complaint. Like... they found a segment of design that works well for the color pair, and gives players what they want. And it's "brainless" because... they're not doing it the exact way you want them to? A significant part of good design *is* doing the obvious stuff, and that goes triply when it's obvious stuff that people want.

Alright, but show me where the transition from Vorel of the Hull Clade to Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy happened. Like, one is interesting and not busted and the other is obscene combo on a 2 mana creature. 2 freaking mana. I get that people want that sort of power, but man is it not fun to play against. Even Tatyova, Benthic Druid and Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait, they're not Kinnan bad, but they're still pretty pushed - and maybe brainless is a bit rough, but put those two side by side and tell me they're not lazy design. Also, I'd call Tatyova easily the most played uncommon commander, purely for power alone. It's just a bit silly how pushed Simic is in modern times.

FWIW I'm seriously thinking about building Gor Muldrak, Amphinologist as an interesting, non busted Simic commander that explores different design space instead of just pushing further into rampdraw.

I mean, I can tell you they're not lazy design, but that won't make you believe me. That, more than anything, is an example of why I don't get it. You're taking two cards from two different products that accomplish two different jobs within those products and calling it "lazy design" because they happen to share an effect. Vorel of the Hull Clade and Gilder Bairn aren't "lazy design" either, but they seem to be under that philosophy.

Well, we obviously don't see eye to eye on this so it's probably not worth flogging a dead horse. I just think commanders with both draw and ramp built in are wholly uninteresting to brew, play or play against.

toctheyounger wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Wallycaine wrote: ↑

3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Alright, but show me where the transition from Vorel of the Hull Clade to Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy happened. Like, one is interesting and not busted and the other is obscene combo on a 2 mana creature. 2 freaking mana. I get that people want that sort of power, but man is it not fun to play against. Even Tatyova, Benthic Druid and Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait, they're not Kinnan bad, but they're still pretty pushed - and maybe brainless is a bit rough, but put those two side by side and tell me they're not lazy design. Also, I'd call Tatyova easily the most played uncommon commander, purely for power alone. It's just a bit silly how pushed Simic is in modern times.

FWIW I'm seriously thinking about building Gor Muldrak, Amphinologist as an interesting, non busted Simic commander that explores different design space instead of just pushing further into rampdraw.

I mean, I can tell you they're not lazy design, but that won't make you believe me. That, more than anything, is an example of why I don't get it. You're taking two cards from two different products that accomplish two different jobs within those products and calling it "lazy design" because they happen to share an effect. Vorel of the Hull Clade and Gilder Bairn aren't "lazy design" either, but they seem to be under that philosophy.

Well, we obviously don't see eye to eye on this so it's probably not worth flogging a dead horse. I just think commanders with both draw and ramp built in are wholly uninteresting to brew, play or play against.

Yeah, to be clear, I'm not saying you have to like them. I just get tired of "lazy design" or 'brainless' getting thrown around as a substitute for "I don't like this". You don't have to like them, you don't have to like playing against them, but it's worth recognizing that it's a design that's delivering what some people do want to them. That makes it a design you don't like, not bad design.

Wallycaine wrote: ↑

3 years ago

That makes it a design you don't like, not bad design.

Fair point. In that case, I recant my statement, and perhaps should have said that I personally find that design space to be pretty uninteresting in any way.

Guardman wrote: ↑

3 years ago

What are people's thoughts on Gilanra, Caller of Wirewood?

On the one hand he is a ramp spell in the command zone and gives you access to green as part of your color identity.

On the other, he is a worse Llanowar Visionary until you draw your second card off of his mana. Also it seems like it would be better to rely on standard green ramp spells like Cultivate and Three Visits instead of him, since he is easy to remove.

I think it is a good partner for a lot of the white partner commanders. I've been especially eyeing Gilanra, Caller of Wirewood for either Radiant, Serra Archangel or Akroma, Vision of Ixidor . You get green's ramp package and a little bit of extra from Gilanra as well + card draw. It's not amazing but it's good support. The card is also pretty unassuming as far as partner commanders go so I don't think it will eat a ton of removal. I see it being more the secondary partner with whatever it is paired with being the main commander of the deck.

It's also a decent partner for Brinelin, the Moon Kraken if you want to go with sea monster tribal since a lot of those are 6 cmc or higher.

I get what toc's saying about Simic's design seeming lazy and I ascribe it to the way the colour pair is designed to be best at breaking the most fundamental rules of the game. The one land limit should be a good thing, one card a turn should be a good thing, spells being cast for their actual casting costs should be a good thing, but in green-blue those are just quaint, optional guidelines you can choose to conform to if you wanna slum it like the red player. Growth Spiral does WAY more than the card ability states and there shouldn't be legendary takes on effects that advantageous, even if they're not aggressively costed. Maybe the design process for these cards is no less strenuous than of that for any other, but the way they PLAY is lazy, the most egregious good-stuff philosophy right now.

New pathways look sweet.

https://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoile ... he-skalds/

This is very, very nice. I can definitely see playing it in Boros decks.

More Sagas
I like it. After this set comes out I think I will build a saga deck.

The Saga is so awesome! Exactly what Boros needed! Red has been more and more okay on the draw side of things as sets went on, but most of the playable cards in that arena are one card/turn deals. A bigger draw spell like this is a dream come true.

I love that we finally get multi-colored sagas. I love even more that it is a good Boros saga. I have more ideas for my Historic Feather deck using this, but if I ever do build a Boros commander deck (and I have contemplated building Bell Borca, Spectral Sergeant) this seems like an easy include.

Yeah, this immediately made me think of Bell Borca.

Showdown of the Skalds seems incredible. I've been blown away by how good Escape to the Wilds has felt in my RGx decks - played late, with mana and a land play up, it's very often a five mana draw five. This is a little less good, but Boros will take what it can get and I'd wager this is very often at least a Harmonize + minor upside, and sometimes a full-blown draw four that also will end up throwing a few counters onto the table While Bell Borca, Spectral Sergeant is obviously most excited for this. I think this is going to be an autoinclude in every Boros build and in plenty of Mardu and Naya ones too. Even Jeskai builds will be enticed, I think, especially ones like Kykar, Wind's Fury or Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest that can take advantage of the random +1/+1 counters on Chapters 2 and 3.

These are cool but what does Mastodon have to do with Vikings? They're enjoyable enough, but very much non-Norse. I'd be stoked to see a band like Emperor or Amon Amarth spoil some cards. That'd be metal af.

Soon

The selection of bands seems to be a bit all over the place. The two previews that have gone up have been a bit weird, neither really seems to be paying that much attention to the actual preview part. You get some sort of in-joke stuff that flies over the heads of randoms that just went there to get the previews, or you get a protracted band history in the hope of luring in the randoms that just went there to get the previews. And the previews are just tacked on in a dull recitation of WotC-derived info.

Yeah it is a bit weird. Only one of these bands is Nordic in origin/theme, too. Seems a bit of a broad stroke to just assume all metalheads are into vikings, although I guess it's probably not too far from the truth.

I guess it'd be a bit of a tough sell getting any of the band members from Emperor involved anyway, considering the bands history

Opeth would probably have worked too considering they're Swedish, or Dethklok. God I miss Metalocalypse, that show was hilarious.

Anyway, kinda stoked for this set. Should be a cool vibe.

So, a Tribal Birthing Pod seems interesting. Bit cheaper up front, bit more expensive to activate (assuming we're always paying the two life), but seems like a versatile tool for some decks.

Wallycaine wrote: ↑

3 years ago

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So, a Tribal Birthing Pod seems interesting. Bit cheaper up front, bit more expensive to activate (assuming we're always paying the two life), but seems like a versatile tool for some decks.

Fascinating. Colorless is a reasonably big deal to a variety of non-green decks, but the cost is pretty heavy (2 mana per pop, sorcery speed). I imagine it will be a solid player in a lot of Zombie decks.

Uh....it's pretty awesome in any sort of tribal build. Damn, that's pretty spicy.

Pyre of Heroes is definitely going into my cleric tribal deck, where I can sacrifice an Arena Rector or Academy Rector to get Battletide Alchemist.

Pyre of Heroes looks extremely powerful - a colorless Birthing Pod for tribal decks. The tribal restriction does make it trickier to slot in, but... definitely seems interesting. I'll probably try to give it a shot in my Teysa deck, which already has a human subtheme - this looks like an excellent sac outlet option.

...that said, even if you're not a dedicated tribal deck, it may still be worth consideration - there are a lot of incidental wizard / soldier / warrior / etc creature types on cards. Can be more difficult to chain to the higher CMC cards though, since dragons / demons / angels tend to not have other types.

Battle of the Ba(n/r)ds - erm, Showdown of the Skalds also looks reasonable, as a card draw option for Boros. Interesting to see them leaning into the heavy metal theming... but as a person that happens to enjoy a lot of European power metal, I'm not going to complain.

dragons like Pyre of Heroes