Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Gashnaw
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Post by Gashnaw » 2 years ago

If i have Mirror Gallery out and someone Saw in halfs my Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer. If i have 8 lands in play i would get two 8/8s becasue of teh whole */* overriding the half stats thing. Right?
This would alo hold true for any creature that enter with +1/+1 counters (That are not cost X) Like Cytospawn Shambler it would enters as a 0/0 since 0 cannot be halved, and then the counters would take effect giving me two 6/6s

Just wanting to make sure.

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Post by Guardman » 2 years ago

Gashnaw wrote:
2 years ago
If i have Mirror Gallery out and someone Saw in halfs my Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer. If i have 8 lands in play i would get two 8/8s becasue of teh whole */* overriding the half stats thing. Right?
This would alo hold true for any creature that enter with +1/+1 counters (That are not cost X) Like Cytospawn Shambler it would enters as a 0/0 since 0 cannot be halved, and then the counters would take effect giving me two 6/6s

Just wanting to make sure.
On the Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer question, I believe you will get two 4/4's that basically lose the text about its power and toughness being equal to the number of lands you control. My reasoning on this is because, if I remember right, if you The Scarab God a Tarmogoyf you will get a 4/4 as the ability "does not copy" Tarmogoyf's Characteristic Defining Ability (i.e. the text that defines it's power and toughness). Saw in Half, like The Scarab God, defines the tokens power and toughness, which should "overwrite" Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer's Characteristic Defining Ability which defines its power and toughness.

Saw in Half on Cytospawn Shambler is a lot easier. Saw in Half only cares about the current power and toughness when determining the tokens power and toughness. If it is a 0/0 with six +1/+1 counters, it will be treated as a 6/6 by Saw in Half and you will get two 9/9 (3/3 base power and toughness thanks to Saw in Half's Characteristic Defining Ability and six +1/+1 counters). An additional example, if you have more than 30 life when you Saw in Half a Serra Ascendant you will get two 8/8 tokens with flying and lifelink.

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

Guardman wrote:
2 years ago
Gashnaw wrote:
2 years ago
If i have Mirror Gallery out and someone Saw in halfs my Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer. If i have 8 lands in play i would get two 8/8s becasue of teh whole */* overriding the half stats thing. Right?
This would alo hold true for any creature that enter with +1/+1 counters (That are not cost X) Like Cytospawn Shambler it would enters as a 0/0 since 0 cannot be halved, and then the counters would take effect giving me two 6/6s

Just wanting to make sure.
On the Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer question, I believe you will get two 4/4's that basically lose the text about its power and toughness being equal to the number of lands you control. My reasoning on this is because, if I remember right, if you The Scarab God a Tarmogoyf you will get a 4/4 as the ability "does not copy" Tarmogoyf's Characteristic Defining Ability (i.e. the text that defines it's power and toughness). Saw in Half, like The Scarab God, defines the tokens power and toughness, which should "overwrite" Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer's Characteristic Defining Ability which defines its power and toughness.
This is correct. While the copy effect is giving it a P/T as part of the copiable values (so it applies in Layer 1), rule 707.9d says that the CDA isn't copied at all because the copy effect is setting the P/T. So the Molimo copies will not have the CDA defining their P/T.

You are also correct about the Shambler interaction.

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Kamigawa 2: Electric Neon Boogaloo spoilers have begun. Ninjas and demons confirmed to be returning, along with a new spirit dragon cycle.

Atsushi, the Blazing Sky looks very solid - 4/4 evasive body for four mana, plus two useful death triggers - either cards or mana. Definitely seems like it would see play in Standard, and a reasonable option in the 99 for some decks.
Hidetsugu, Devouring Chaos is alright. Scry / sacrifice ability is a bit underwhelming compared to Viscera Seer, but that second ability looks quite strong - removal and card advantage.
Kaito Shizuki looks like reasonable ninja/ninjutsu support.
Full-art lands are pretty.

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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

Mookie wrote:
2 years ago
Atsushi, the Blazing Sky looks very solid - 4/4 evasive body for four mana, plus two useful death triggers - either cards or mana. Definitely seems like it would see play in Standard, and a reasonable option in the 99 for some decks.
Yeah, I dig him also. Lots of value there.

For those who haven't see the full art basics: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/ka ... lker-kaito

I really like them and I am very happy we are finally seeing regular full art basics to match the set themes. I've been asking for this for years. Now we can finally use these to support our decks themes aesthetically which is huge for me.

I don't think these are real, but I really dig the style. Hopefully this becomes a reality, as it would be awesome to get some of the old kamigawa cards with a neon treatment.

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WRBKaalia, Zenith Seeker - Certified Air Raid Material
WBElenda, the Dusk Rose - Drain and Gain
WRAurelia, the Warleader - Tokens/Equipment
URNiv-Mizzet, Parun - Controlled Burn primer
BRGHenzie, "Toolbox" Torre - Creature Feature
BRGSoul of Windgrace - Lands Matter
RGWGishath, Sun's Avatar - I'M YOUR DADDY
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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 2 years ago

Mookie wrote:
2 years ago
Kamigawa 2: Electric Neon Boogaloo spoilers have begun. Ninjas and demons confirmed to be returning, along with a new spirit dragon cycle.
To add one to play on the theme of tradition vs modern you find in Japan and Japanese culture, 50% of the set will be more traditional Kamigawa and 50% will be cyberpunk, with them pretty much saying all the old tribes (rats snakes, foxes and moonfolk nothing about the goblins out right yet).

I play Yuriko since tribal was one the way I could get behind UB (control and/or mill when I like more creature/aggro heavy deck) so new ninja walker and more ninjas in general is awesome.
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Post by Yatsufusa » 2 years ago

Well, a mild case of tradition versus modern is also simmering within my own mindscape. Old Kamigawa will always have a special place in my heart, being the plane where I started the game with. It's been over 17 years over here (and millennia in-lore), I fully understand why the story moved as it did (and honestly I'm surprised on how much of Old Kamigawa you can still feel parts of just from these previews, although I will reserve full judgment after the full spoilers). We literally saw 2 of the 5 dragon spirits die/mortally wounded in-story (and they said only Ryusei survived the initial war, although I never recalled that Jugan and Kokusho had died actually, I only remembered Jugan being summoned and nothing about Kokusho), so the whole new cycle of dragons make complete sense. In fact, by logic most of Old Kamigawa as I knew it should be gone.

At the same time though, while I don't mind and in fact pretty enjoy the direction Kamigawa seems to be heading, I feel no "hype", so to speak, it's like seeing a child graduate and move in its own direction in life and I don't feel the need to follow. I do not know if it's a result of the saturation of products/marketing "recently". There is no "howling for the past long gone" or "hyped for the incoming future", just watered-down feelings of those two simultaneously.

Gameplay-wise I built my Ryusei deck around the basis it was my "first" Legendary creature (as I started out in a Champions Prerelease). I themed the deck around Sokenzan and while the full-art lands look great, they weren't beating my OG Foil Kamigawa Panorama Mountains depicting Sokenzan itself. Not that I expected that, but I guess some subconscious of me had unrealistic expectations so I subconsciously got disappointed. Funny enough the logical side of me did anticipate the possibility of lands like those they previewed, so I'm also mildly happy about the lands. Another mixed stew of feelings. FYI, I'm pretty neutral to Cyberpunk, I don't particularly love it and nothing with the genre I have personal faults with either.

Story-wise Hidetsugu remains my favorite character since I started and honestly I'm flattered he's getting THE exclusive treatment (although I suppose my wallet isn't so flattered). But at the same time just having the cards raises A LOT of lore questions. I vividly remember he still controlled the Jaw Attendants of the All-Consuming when he devoured Mochi, so what happened to the "spirit" part of that? Did Hidetsugu lose his "spirtuality" eventually and became potentially Kamigawa's only non-spirit Demon? His creature type excludes spirit (and despite potential spacing issues I don't think it was the reason) and neither of his arts depict any Jaw Attendants, which also go with the theory. I NEED HIS STORY. I hope he gets to outwit the big-bad (Tezz? Jin?) or everyone, for that matter, on his own terms again, the same way he outwitted Toshiro millennia ago (who had a descendant who outwitted Bolas).

Based on the art I think he still resides in Shinka (well I doubt he has access to a spiritual Honden anymore if my theory was right). Nothing about him screams Cyberpunk so I wonder if he controls some sort of olden underworld market (except it's in the mountains). Do other ogres (descendants, to be specific) see him as a traitor for his actions (well other demon spirits probably won't like him) or revere him for what he had done (and potentially follow him instead, either way the Demon Spirits probably really hate Hidetsugu)?

It's a weird feeling to be "invested" to a certain degree again. I definitely don't feel it's on-par to my early days / Eldrazi arc days, but Kamigawa being so special to me definitely raised magnitudes of lore interest I haven't felt since the Eldrazi closed (I was literally just taking notes for War of the Spark without being invested). I know this invested feeling is solely for Kamigawa (and won't last) and that self-awareness creates sort of a self-defeating impact, I guess.
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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Yatsufusa wrote:
2 years ago
I vividly remember he still controlled the Jaw Attendants of the All-Consuming when he devoured Mochi, so what happened to the "spirit" part of that? Did Hidetsugu lose his "spirtuality" eventually and became potentially Kamigawa's only non-spirit Demon?
Maro's meta answer
I love the new hidetsugu high fives to them

One question how come he doesn't have the spirit type? He melded with the all-consuming which was the most powerful oni and they were malevolent spirits

My best guess is not enough space on the type line.
'Legendary Creature: Ogre Demon Spirit' is indeed a long line of text, but I don't think it to be significantly different from 'Legendary Enchantment Creature: God'. That said, I expect there to be a more satisfying in-universe answer at some point.

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Post by Vertierer » 2 years ago

OG Kamigawa holds a special place in my heart, as it was the block with which my two cousins started playing (I started during the Odyssey block but took a break during Onslaught and Mirrodin up to the release of Fifth Dawn) and we would throw our money together and buy all the 75-card packs available at the stores we visited and build the jankiest of jank decks (my first three packs all had a Kokusho in it, which deepened my love for the colour black, but also lowered the jank level quite a bit).

That being said... I just love the basic lands! And the new Hidetsugu and the Dragon are awesome, too. Within the last years I grew tired of Wotc's antics and MTG as a whole, but this set could rekindle my spirit.
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Lifeless
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Post by Lifeless » 2 years ago

My first EDH deck ever was Godo during Kamigawa block so it's got a special place for me also. Looking forward to seeing what they do. My ninja deck will certainly benefit also.

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Post by Gashnaw » 2 years ago

Kaito is cool. Gonna put him in my yuriko deck. Kinda hate the phase out for a turn but whatever. Free card and then safe.

Would be better if it be a "mana cost: kaito phases out" cause that feels more ninja

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Post by duducrash » 2 years ago

Those basics are amazing. Might be my favorite basics to date

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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

I also really like the lands. Maybe I'll get a set to draft w/ or something.
Gashnaw wrote:
2 years ago
Kaito is cool. Gonna put him in my yuriko deck. Kinda hate the phase out for a turn but whatever. Free card and then safe.

Would be better if it be a "mana cost: kaito phases out" cause that feels more ninja
That would make him basically a guaranteed ult if you just kept paying the cost. Would be fine if he blinked out instead though.
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Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 2 years ago

For Kaito they said they just wanted the one time self phase for the ninja flavor and helps keep Kaito around a bit since the decks they designed him to work in wants to be more aggro focused so your less likely to want to keep blockers for him.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

Satoru Umezawa seems really interesting.

Actually maybe just grossly OP now that I think about it. Half 1-mana unblockables, half eldrazi? Seeeeems goooood.
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Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
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Post by Dunharrow » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
Satoru Umezawa seems really interesting.

Actually maybe just grossly OP now that I think about it. Half 1-mana unblockables, half eldrazi? Seeeeems goooood.
it's fine
there are a lot of commanders that cheat things into play so I think this is mediocre.
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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Yeah, Satoru Umezawa gives me Kaalia of the Vast vibes - capable of cheating out scary creatures, but also extremely telegraphed and vulnerable to having the commander removed. Both have the Flameblast Dragon problem, so no annihilator triggers from any Eldrazi you cheat out. I'll also note that Satoru is even more conditional, since in addition to needing to have a creature to attack with, you also need to actually have it go unblocked and pay mana, which is... difficult. Kaalia at least has her own evasion and is pretty easy to give haste.

....still, the idea of ninja Eldrazi sounds hilarious.

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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

Mookie wrote:
2 years ago

....still, the idea of ninja Eldrazi sounds hilarious.
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

Dunharrow wrote:
2 years ago
it's fine
there are a lot of commanders that cheat things into play so I think this is mediocre.
I guess. Unblockable and whatnot makes it stronger though.

I do dislike the "cheat a thing into play regardless of mana cost" pattern on stuff. Really cuts down on the creative potential of a card imo. It's like "ooh, I could do some interesting cipt triggers and bounce back to hand and...wait, no, it's way better to just put kozilek into play or whatever...same stuff as every other cheat-into-play commander...snore..."

Wish it was like where X is the mv reduced by 3 or something so it wasn't that same old stuff.
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Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
Satoru Umezawa seems really interesting.

Actually maybe just grossly OP now that I think about it. Half 1-mana unblockables, half eldrazi? Seeeeems goooood.
I think people are underselling how powerful it is to have Sneak Attack in the command zone in Dimir color identity. It's more expensive but it's very reliable and it comes with card advantage.

Feels like a potentially pretty fun deck, although I would play huge demons and blue bombs probably first (more Nezahal, Primal Tide and Vilis, Broker of Blood / Razaketh, the Foulblooded and less Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger).

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Post by materpillar » 2 years ago

I just read him and think "oh neat, another commander I can never let survive to its owner's upkeep. Fun."

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Post by Gashnaw » 2 years ago

So now i have to pick between Yuriko an satoru...

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Post by Wallycaine » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
Satoru Umezawa seems really interesting.

Actually maybe just grossly OP now that I think about it. Half 1-mana unblockables, half eldrazi? Seeeeems goooood.
I think people are underselling how powerful it is to have Sneak Attack in the command zone in Dimir color identity. It's more expensive but it's very reliable and it comes with card advantage.

Feels like a potentially pretty fun deck, although I would play huge demons and blue bombs probably first (more Nezahal, Primal Tide and Vilis, Broker of Blood / Razaketh, the Foulblooded and less Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger).
Sneak attack for 4 mana per activation is a vastly different card than sneak attack at 1 cost activation. This puts me more into the mindset of Impromptu Raid than sneak attack. By the time you're "cheating" a creature into play, you've invested at least 8 mana (1 for unblockable duder, 3 for Umezawa himself, 4 for the Ninjutsu ability). At that point, you're not getting much more of a discount than you would off something like Thran Temporal Gateway, which is not exactly tearing up things, even if it was printed as a commander. Personally, I'd look at playing him as a proper ninjutsu lord, with only a few fatties and the occasional combo piece (Palinchron and 7 lands that tap for 9 goes off, for example). Won't be a high power deck, but I'm skeptical that the sneak attack plan would be either.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

For sure but the quality of cards plus the card advantage make it pretty cool. We know mono red purphoros is a pretty good deck and costs almost as much and red is just a lot worse.

Not having to sacrifice them is nice too.

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Post by folding_music » 2 years ago

the new cards feel like stuff you'd print for a game that doesn't need any more cards. giggle. I'll say merry xmas instead of complaining!

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