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Ulka
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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
Cowboy Bebop (the anime) is fantastic. I would highly recommend it.

Does anyone have any good audio book recommendations?
I really liked the pillar of the earth for audio book but I've found tabletop rpg games make for excellent substitutes for audiobooks.

If you want rpg play throughs I love the glass cannon podcast and thier Patreon games run by skid but also the find the path podcast has been super good.
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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 2 years ago

materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
Cowboy Bebop (the anime) is fantastic. I would highly recommend it.

Does anyone have any good audio book recommendations?
Tai-Pan by James Clavell is a nice long burn if you need to kill time. Excellent book (a shade or two dated) and I know audiobooks of it exist.
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

I don't listen to a lot of audiobooks but I bought the Bobby Dollar series by Tad Williams for a cross-country drive and was not disappointed. Very fun. Really unique take on conflict where it wasn't all punching and such.

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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
Does anyone have any good audio book recommendations?
Well, World War Z by Max brooks has an all-star cast ( for example one character is done by Mark Hamil), I recommend the unabridged edition. I'm working my way through The Dresden Files which is done by James Marsters (Spike from Buffy) and naturally, Harry Potter was well done by Jim Dale, however, if you can get the UK version it's done by Stephen Fry.
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Post by Dunharrow » 2 years ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
2 years ago
materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
Cowboy Bebop (the anime) is fantastic. I would highly recommend it.

Does anyone have any good audio book recommendations?
Tai-Pan by James Clavell is a nice long burn if you need to kill time. Excellent book (a shade or two dated) and I know audiobooks of it exist.
I don't do audio books (I think I get too distracted), but I loved Tai-Pan when I read it. Shogun was my intro to clavell after watching the miniseries, and Tai-Pan was really just fantastic. Shogun too, but I think I enjoyed it less because I knew a lot of the story from the miniseries.
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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 2 years ago

Dunharrow wrote:
2 years ago
TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
2 years ago
materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
Cowboy Bebop (the anime) is fantastic. I would highly recommend it.

Does anyone have any good audio book recommendations?
Tai-Pan by James Clavell is a nice long burn if you need to kill time. Excellent book (a shade or two dated) and I know audiobooks of it exist.
I don't do audio books (I think I get too distracted), but I loved Tai-Pan when I read it. Shogun was my intro to clavell after watching the miniseries, and Tai-Pan was really just fantastic. Shogun too, but I think I enjoyed it less because I knew a lot of the story from the miniseries.
I've read all of the Asia Saga except Whirlwind (of which a used copy cannot be found) and they're all masterfully written novels. Shogun and Tai Pan are probably the strongest of the six books, but the quality difference between any two of them is really marginal. King Rat is the shortest of them and third best imho. It tells a really compelling thriller in a confined setting with a chekovian cast of three-dimensional characters, and the ending is nothing short of subperb. I highly recommend it to all of you if 1100 page tomes aren't your bag, it's a tidy, gripping 340 in comparison.
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Post by BeneTleilax » 2 years ago

materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
Does anyone have any good audio book recommendations?
Project Hail Mary is excellent, one of the few audiobooks I consider better than the physical.

In terms of shows, I'd also second Dirk's recommendation of Katla, with the caveat that it is quite bleak.

I've also enjoyed Dopesick, though it is, again, bleak.

Bounced off Shadow and Bone pretty hard myself, too much YA "but I don't *wanna* save the world" angst.

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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

Thanks for the recommendations everyone! I've got a couple of my own from Netflix:

Travelers: Teams of operatives have their consciousnesses sent back in time in order to prevent an apocalypse, supplanting the consciousness of the body's previous occupant. The show does a lot with this concept while refusing to dumb things down for the audience. Its three seasons are well written, acted, and produced.

Glitch: A small town is Australia is plagued by residents inexplicably returning to life. Another grounded sci-fi show that doesn't talk down to its audience. It's also a lot better than the tired-sounding concept may suggest. The show doesn't even answer all of your questions, which ends up being a feature and a bug.

I didn't want to say much about either so I don't give anything away, but I highly recommend both.
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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

RxPhantom wrote:
2 years ago
Thanks for the recommendations everyone! I've got a couple of my own from Netflix:

Travelers: Teams of operatives have their consciousnesses sent back in time in order to prevent an apocalypse, supplanting the consciousness of the body's previous occupant. The show does a lot with this concept while refusing to dumb things down for the audience. Its three seasons are well written, acted, and produced.
I really liked this show, I could have done with another season, but I was happy with the ending.
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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

Hermes_ wrote:
2 years ago
RxPhantom wrote:
2 years ago
Thanks for the recommendations everyone! I've got a couple of my own from Netflix:

Travelers: Teams of operatives have their consciousnesses sent back in time in order to prevent an apocalypse, supplanting the consciousness of the body's previous occupant. The show does a lot with this concept while refusing to dumb things down for the audience. Its three seasons are well written, acted, and produced.
I really liked this show, I could have done with another season, but I was happy with the ending.
That pretty much sums up how I felt about it. It was a very satisfying ending, but I was still crushed that it was cancelled.
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

RxPhantom wrote:
2 years ago
Travelers: Teams of operatives have their consciousnesses sent back in time in order to prevent an apocalypse, supplanting the consciousness of the body's previous occupant. The show does a lot with this concept while refusing to dumb things down for the audience. Its three seasons are well written, acted, and produced.
Hermes_ wrote:
2 years ago
I really liked this show, I could have done with another season, but I was happy with the ending.
Lily and I started watching two new shows to see if anything stuck, which were Travelers and Into the Night. I'm kinda curious to get some more (non-spoilery) info on travelers - I decided to drop it after the first 3 episodes because I got the sneaking suspicion it was going to be an episodic show where each time some mission comes up, something goes wrong, they solve it, and then everything is basically back to "normal" each time, without really building to much of a climax or having much of a through-line.

Which, I've come to realize about myself, I really can't stand lol. I want my shows (well, at least my drama shows, comedies can do whatever) to basically be a long movie I can watch in installments. So if Travelers is more THAT, and it's just the first few episodes that feel episodic, I'll give it another shot. (Although I also hate the trope where there's a group that has to save the world, and some of them are like "no, we need to save this old lady crossing the street even though it endangers our infinitely-more-important-goals because my squishy human brain says so")

So far we're 2 episodes in to Into the Night. It's...kind of exciting and kind of hilarious. The premise is so dumb it boggles the mind, and there are some really stupid writing decisions imo, but it's directed well enough that it's constantly exciting when you aren't laughing your ass off at the pathetic attempt to justify the premise or the corny dialogue.
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Post by toctheyounger » 2 years ago

Funnily enough, one of my favorite 'this got canceled way too early' shows is Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency, of mtgnexus user DirkGently notoriety.

It was bizarre and baffling to watch but immensely entertaining, and often hilarious. Highly recommend.
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Post by Dunharrow » 2 years ago

Ah I was going to pass on Travelers because I knew it was canceled somewhat abruptly. I guess it's going back on the list!
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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
RxPhantom wrote:
2 years ago
Travelers: Teams of operatives have their consciousnesses sent back in time in order to prevent an apocalypse, supplanting the consciousness of the body's previous occupant. The show does a lot with this concept while refusing to dumb things down for the audience. Its three seasons are well written, acted, and produced.
Hermes_ wrote:
2 years ago
I really liked this show, I could have done with another season, but I was happy with the ending.
Lily and I started watching two new shows to see if anything stuck, which were Travelers and Into the Night. I'm kinda curious to get some more (non-spoilery) info on travelers - I decided to drop it after the first 3 episodes because I got the sneaking suspicion it was going to be an episodic show where each time some mission comes up, something goes wrong, they solve it, and then everything is basically back to "normal" each time, without really building to much of a climax or having much of a through-line.

Which, I've come to realize about myself, I really can't stand lol. I want my shows (well, at least my drama shows, comedies can do whatever) to basically be a long movie I can watch in installments. So if Travelers is more THAT, and it's just the first few episodes that feel episodic, I'll give it another shot. (Although I also hate the trope where there's a group that has to save the world, and some of them are like "no, we need to save this old lady crossing the street even though it endangers our infinitely-more-important-goals because my squishy human brain says so")
The best non-spoiler way I can explain is using Stark's quote from endgame "You mess with time, time tends to mess back"
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

Hermes_ wrote:
2 years ago
The best non-spoiler way I can explain is using Stark's quote from endgame "You mess with time, time tends to mess back"
I could have assumed that much. What I'm looking for is a yes/no on whether this has an episodic structure (and having a season climax that is loosely built up to and/or some mild character development a la Doctor Who, Supernatural, Rick & Morty, etc still counts as being episodic).
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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
Hermes_ wrote:
2 years ago
The best non-spoiler way I can explain is using Stark's quote from endgame "You mess with time, time tends to mess back"
I could have assumed that much. What I'm looking for is a yes/no on whether this has an episodic structure (and having a season climax that is loosely built up to and/or some mild character development a la Doctor Who, Supernatural, Rick & Morty, etc still counts as being episodic).
It's not loosely built up, but there is heavy character development, the events in episode 2 have a direct impact on episode 6, which Impacts the rest of the series.
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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
Hermes_ wrote:
2 years ago
The best non-spoiler way I can explain is using Stark's quote from endgame "You mess with time, time tends to mess back"
I could have assumed that much. What I'm looking for is a yes/no on whether this has an episodic structure (and having a season climax that is loosely built up to and/or some mild character development a la Doctor Who, Supernatural, Rick & Morty, etc still counts as being episodic).
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking here. Can you give me an example of a show that isn't episodic? I think most television shows are this way by design. I will say that it does a good job developing its characters and focusing on its larger end goals, and there are few shows I'd recommend with more enthusiasm.

Mild spoiler:
SPOILER
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The through-line of the show is their struggle to prevent the apocalypse despite the fact that their actions change the very future from which they receive their directives.
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

RxPhantom wrote:
2 years ago
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking here. Can you give me an example of a show that isn't episodic?
Serial vs. self-contained is I think the distinctin? Episodic shows have a self contained story in each episode, serials have a a longer storyline that's built up over time and cliffhangers and such.

think like star trek (self-contained, procedural) vs. serial (Battlestar galactica)

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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
RxPhantom wrote:
2 years ago
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking here. Can you give me an example of a show that isn't episodic?
Serial vs. self-contained is I think the distinctin? Episodic shows have a self contained story in each episode, serials have a a longer storyline that's built up over time and cliffhangers and such.

think like star trek (self-contained, procedural) vs. serial (Battlestar galactica)
Even serials have self-contained stories while fitting into an overarching narrative. I think that's why I'm having such a hard time answering the question.

If the Twilight Zone is a 1, Supernatural is a 5, and Battlestar Galactica* is a 10, I'd call Travelers an 8.

What struck me the most about was just how satisfying of a show it was to watch. The characters were extremely well-developed. The show had a lot of original ideas that it executed very well. It made me care about the characters in a way that only the best shows can.

*For lack of another example. I've never seen it. I'd probably call Luther a 10 but I'm not sure how many here would be familiar with it..
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
Serial vs. self-contained is I think the distinctin? Episodic shows have a self contained story in each episode, serials have a a longer storyline that's built up over time and cliffhangers and such.

think like star trek (self-contained, procedural) vs. serial (Battlestar galactica)
It's actually an interesting question and it's not exactly black and white, more of a spectrum. On one end, you've got something like Mr Bean, where each episode has essentially no impact on the next. On the other end, you've got something like Game of Thrones where almost everything is causally linked. But then in between there are shows like Supernatural that occasionally have an episode that leads towards the main conflict of the season, but also have lots of episodes with pretty self-contained plots.

In theory there are infinite gradations along the line, determined by how much each episode resolves itself vs how much it contributes to the larger plot, but in practice I think there's probably a few places where most shows cluster, so personally I don't have much difficulty splitting them into two camps. I would say all of the shows I listed would be serial except for arguably Away, which is pretty damn close to the line for me. It definitely did the thing where each episode had its own conflict and usually interpersonal conflicts got some sort of resolution by the end of the episode, but there were also technical problems that persisted between episodes and the whole season had a very concrete goal of getting to Mars. Forced to pick, I'd say serial, but it's definitely close to episodic and that's part of what I disliked about it. I get a similar vibe from Travelers except minus the space setting (which I like) and plus time travel (which I'm p bored of unless it does something really original).

EDIT: of course I'm only 3 episodes in, so my criticism here might be inaccurate, but I can't say I was terribly interested in any of the main cast of characters yet. I think having them being put into bodies of other people essentially forces them to be pretty blank slates since whatever was happening in their lives before is mostly gone. The character I probably liked most was the social worker since he actually has a thing going on.

Second edit: The thing that annoyed me with the show in particular (though I wasn't, like, enthralled at that point so kind of a camel's back situation) was how the plot from episode 1 and 2 seems to basically just get dropped in episode 3, which also felt pretty standalone-y. I'm really not interested in a show where they keep solving little individual problems, I was more interested in a show where they have one clear objective - prevent the world from ending - and they're working on that one task.

Although admittedly that task is kinda bleh. Considering the exciting-sounding concept and the relatively-high stakes of the first couple episodes, I kind of expected a bit...more? You really expect me to believe the US military is driving around with basically-a-nuke with that little protection? And then the general dude comes back to the lab completely alone? I just got a strong low-budget vibe that killed the immersion for me. Hard for me to feel like the world is really on the line when everything feels so banal, plus as mentioned saving the world is a super boring goal tbh. Would still rather have them focused on one task, but ideally it would be a more interesting, less nebulous task. So there's a few things.
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Post by BeneTleilax » 2 years ago

I realize I forgot to shill Devs here, but it is an excellent show. It's on Hulu, and I'd highly recommend it to anyone who likes cyberpunk, near-future sci-fi or Dune. If this seems like a somewhat eclectic list, yes, it is. It's also the sort of show you want to go into blind, because of the amount of intrigue and revelations, though it's planned, single season nature means that the sequence of twists never feels forced or ad-hoc. Great acting (if somewhat understated) and gorgeous cinematography and direction.

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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

Watched one more episode of Travelers to be sure it was episodic and I'd say that it was.

I think for me, the easiest way to differentiate between episodic and serial is how much of each episode's conflict is resolved by the end of the episode, and how much carries on to subsequent episodes.

For example. in episodes 1-2 there's the whole plot about the antimatter, and they resolve it and then...not mentioned in either of the subsequent episodes.

In episode 3 one of the characters wants to save a bunch of randos and lies to the group telling them that they have a mission to stop one of those deaths. His lie is revealed, the group is annoyed with him and...next episode it basically doesn't come up at all.

In episode 4, there's a no good very bad traveler who they have a conflict with, By the end of the episode, he's taken care of.

To me, this feels very episodic. There are loose connections between the episodes, but for the most part things return to a sort of baseline normal between each episode. I'm sure some things will come back later, but when they do I expect they'll most likely be pretty self-contained outside of the episodes they relate to. Besides some mild character building, there's not much that's constantly progressing forward. It wouldn't be too hard to watch most of the episodes in isolation.

Compare to something like Katla, where every episode deepens the mystery of what's going on, and nothing much is really resolved until the end. The episodes can't really be watched in isolation to get anything close to a plot arc. Game of thrones would be similar - of course since it's much longer it's not all build-up in the way Katla is because that would get unbearable eventually, but there's rarely any major resolution until the end. (Which of course is a lot of the problem with the show - everything lead up to the final season and it was garbage. If the next season of Rick and Morty is crap it doesn't significantly diminish the previous ones because they aren't building up to it in a major way.)

Anyway, that's just me trying to figure out what I do/don't like in narratives. Nothing wrong with episodic storytelling, I'm just not personally interested in it when it comes to drama.

In other news, I've been doing a solo, self-found hardcore journey in Diablo 2 (playing trap assassin, my favorite build). Just finished Act 3 Hell - those bone fetishes are the worst, almost shanked me, but I got through it. 2 more acts to go!
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Dunharrow
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Post by Dunharrow » 2 years ago

@DirkGently I find many shows start off episodic and start developing a larger narrative over time. Firefly is a good example of this.
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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

Seems to me that you enjoy the mini-series format in which they are given a limited time and so have to get the most out of that limited time.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

Dunharrow wrote:
2 years ago
@DirkGently I find many shows start off episodic and start developing a larger narrative over time. Firefly is a good example of this.
That's true but idk if I have the patience for that sort of thing anymore. But of course there are always exceptions if I really like other things about the show. I liked Firefly back in the day, but that was forever ago. Travelers didn't really hook me in any particular way, though, it seemed pretty vanilla imo.
Hermes_ wrote:
2 years ago
Seems to me that you enjoy the mini-series format in which they are given a limited time and so have to get the most out of that limited time.
That might be true, but I haven't watched very many. Most shows I've watched recently have been serialized but not considered miniseries afaik. Some more examples - Stranger things, each season is relatively self-contained but the episodes within those seasons aren't. Russian Doll, one of my all-time favorites on Netflix. Fargo (mostly season 1 and 2), similar deal as stranger things except with different characters. As far as actual miniseries, Chernobyl was really good.

Another thing that occurs to me re game of thrones, the parts I disliked by far the most (pre-season 8) were also the bits where things got stagnant - Dany stuck in whatever eastern city, Arya doing training. I really want that narrative to keep moving forward in a significant way each episode.
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Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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