[Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread

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tstorm823
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Post by tstorm823 » 2 years ago

materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
I've killed opponents because I knew they had Expropriate somewhere in their deck. I've gone out and bought 6 Scavenger Grounds because a new game store in town had an addiction to graveyard decks. I built Tivadar of Thorn because my playgroup had a Mono-R phase.
You have made meta-specific decisions based on meta-specific circumstances. Because lots of cards are strong enough to shape a playgroup's games. That's a good thing. If you go to a totally different playgroup, it is possible that everyone or nobody has Expropriate, you may not have mono-red or graveyard decks to play against. You say that you can see a table with Sol Rings and know nothing about their decks as though that is a good thing, but that's exactly what I'm complaining about: it's not warping games, it's not warping metas, it's warping the entire format through omnipresence. You could make your same choice with Mental Misstep in 99% of playgroups.
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Post by materpillar » 2 years ago

tstorm823 wrote:
2 years ago
materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
I've killed opponents because I knew they had Expropriate somewhere in their deck. I've gone out and bought 6 Scavenger Grounds because a new game store in town had an addiction to graveyard decks. I built Tivadar of Thorn because my playgroup had a Mono-R phase.
You have made meta-specific decisions based on meta-specific circumstances. Because lots of cards are strong enough to shape a playgroup's games. That's a good thing. If you go to a totally different playgroup, it is possible that everyone or nobody has Expropriate, you may not have mono-red or graveyard decks to play against. You say that you can see a table with Sol Rings and know nothing about their decks as though that is a good thing, but that's exactly what I'm complaining about: it's not warping games, it's not warping metas, it's warping the entire format through omnipresence. You could make your same choice with Mental Misstep in 99% of playgroups.
I clearly don't understand what you mean by "warping". Like Sol Ring is popular but it isn't dramatically altering how people build their decks (outside of the deck slot it takes up) or the choices they make in game. When I say "warping" I mean "reduces the number of cards/archetypes that can be played with a reasonable expectation of the cards/archetypes doing their thing".

If I want to play Akroma, Angel of Wrath and you want to play Sol Ring that's totally doable. If I want to play Akroma, Angel of Wrath and you want to play Thassa's Oracle+Demonic Consultation I'm not actually going to ever get to play Akroma.

I don't understand your Mental Misstep point either. Swords to Plowshares is the second most popular card on EDHrec. That means I could run mental misstep solely to counter that card. Is Swords to Plowshares the second most format warping card after Sol Ring?

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Post by tstorm823 » 2 years ago

materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
Like Sol Ring is popular but it isn't dramatically altering how people build their decks (outside of the deck slot it takes up)
It is dramatically altering the way people build their decks. Mana bases get away with some otherwise bad decisions on the back of Sol Ring starts. 2 mana artifacts dominate the most played lists. Cards that play off Sol Ring nicely are powered up, cards that have have only colored pips in their cost are artificially powered down, cheap removal is basically a mandate when opponents play 4 or 5 drops on turn 2. I cannot recommend enough just getting your playgroup to cut all the Sol Rings and watch quickly things change.
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

I've been on both sides of this argument at one point or another. Bit of a chicken and egg situation really.

On one hand, sol ring and mana crypt are, imo, the two most powerful cards in the format in a vacuum. The degree to which they outpace modern mana ramp is pretty absurd. The command zone is complaining about 2 cmc rocks that tap for 1 while sol ring costs half as much for twice the benefit. Modern equivalents cost 4. I've certainly had plenty of games go off the rails quickly because someone had fast mana on turn 1 and went unanswered. Powerful decks can get out of control very quickly when they have a sol ring/mana crypt start.

On the other hand, while expropriate on turn 6 is worse than one on turn 8, I still have a bad time when it gets cast regardless. A lot of the big top-end wincons that wotc has printed are, imo, obnoxious on any turn. Losing to the same combo I've seen a thousand times, losing to a 1-card-wincon, losing to some tedious storm combo that takes 15 minutes to resolve - these aren't good experiences, not on any turn. And I think there's the issue of recency. Sol ring has existed since the format's inception, back in "the good old days". People complained about it back then too (myself among them) but a lot of what tends to piss older players off is the direction the format is going, and the thing changing the format is new cards, not old ones.

But then, I think another thing that's changed is the philosophy of the format. Not from the RC, but from the people actually playing it. Even back in '09 there were annoying metadecks that could dominate the field, but people tended not to play them because (1) they were expensive (2) people weren't as aware of them (3) there was a clearer philosophical delineation between cEDH and EDH. Take the card pool of '09 and transplant it to today, and would it still be "the good old days" or would it be more like today, with a lot of people playing groaner commanders and a lot of games ending abruptly to the usual suspects? Hard to say, really.

I do find myself agreeing with materpillar to the extent that the presence of a sol ring doesn't drastically change the enjoyability of the game, even turn 1. If someone combos off on turn 3 because of sol ring, well, they were still going to pull of some nonsense at some point. The key issue, imo, has always been that with such a huge influx of players, the goal of commander has gotten muddled, with different people wanting different things. I think also the popularity of the format putting more people in public environments instead of insulated ones means a lot more clashing of philosophies. When the influx of new players was relatively small, I think it was easier for them to absorb "the vibe" and be peer pressured into a similar power level as everyone else. So yes, everyone runs sol ring, but nobody runs Mind Over Matter because that's just not the sort of thing that's acceptable. But as more people come into the format, the easier it is for people who aren't interested in the social philosophy and are more interested in breaking things to find common cause with other people, and to spread that perspective. So now there's more and more people pushing the envelope further and further, and a much greyer area between EDH and cEDH. And now some of the flaws that were more latent in the format - sol ring - become more and more pronounced.

From a practical standpoint, there are a lot more obnoxious endgame %$#%$#% cards than there are sol rings. It would be really hard to slow things down appreciably by banning those cards, and wotc is always printing more. Ban sol ring, ban mana crypt, ban demonic tutor, ban vampiric tutor...the format will probably slow down a bit. Will actual it become more fun to play? Maybe, though I don't expect the ways people win are going to change. To me, I think that's the bigger problem. Ultimately, while I could say that the only way to fix the format is to convince everyone to play like we did in '09, of course the reality is that the cat is out of the bag. We could ban fast mana and efficient tutors, and maybe we should, but I don't think it would actually make a huge difference. I don't think anything can make a difference. The format is just different now, and I don't think we can blame it on some small number of cards. It's everything - the gradual power increases from wotc, the availability of deckbuilding information, the ease of buying powerful cards, the massive influx of new players, the shift towards public play, the conflicting philosophies of players - It's a holistic issue, and unfortunately I think there's only two solutions: learn to live in this new format, or stop playing.

I guess that got away from me a little.
materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
Is Swords to Plowshares the second most format warping card after Sol Ring?
Stp is only the 5th most popular card, behind signet, greaves, and boots.

That said the mental misstep argument (against you) is pointless anyway since you're running it for memes and acknowledge it's probably not a good play. It's not legitimately warping deckbuilding if the changes being made aren't intended to be effective. It's not really a problem until running narrow answers is actually the correct play.
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Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
On the other hand, while expropriate on turn 6 is worse than one on turn 8, I still have a bad time when it gets cast regardless. A lot of the big top-end wincons that wotc has printed are, imo, obnoxious on any turn. Losing to the same combo I've seen a thousand times, losing to a 1-card-wincon, losing to some tedious storm combo that takes 15 minutes to resolve - these aren't good experiences, not on any turn.
I disagree. A two turn headstart on big top end plays is tremendous. The difference in my signature deck between 2 turns in the mid to late game is like, 6 cards drawn, 2-4 mana put into play, and either removal or discard to disrupt you, or my own bombs to deploy. Two turns is a long time, and I would estimate most serious EDH decks have a critical turn of 8 or less. I don't mind losing to virtually any card or combination of cards, what I mind is not having a say in the flow of the game, and that's what's egregious about fast mana.

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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

Lets move this back to off topic yall
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Post by materpillar » 2 years ago

My local game store usually runs Friday night commander but they're not doing it tonight because of Covid. Which is totally reasonable but I am saddened.

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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
My local game store usually runs Friday night commander but they're not doing it tonight because of Covid. Which is totally reasonable but I am saddened.
I'll finally be playing in an hour or so, it's been months for me.
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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 2 years ago

Ulka wrote:
2 years ago
Lets move this back to off topic yall
That's awesome. Not only have we almost locked this thread for being too offtopic, now we're too on-topic. I love this thread.
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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
2 years ago
Ulka wrote:
2 years ago
Lets move this back to off topic yall
That's awesome. Not only have we almost locked this thread for being too offtopic, now we're too on-topic. I love this thread.
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Post by Toshi » 2 years ago

So i just came home from the first 6 hours of commander this year and it was a blast.

Most memorable play of the evening was when i was playing Gonti, Lord of Luxury against Kaalia of the Vast with lethal on the board and Alrund, God of the Cosmos // Hakka, Whispering Raven with evasion and 2 cards shy of having commander damage for lethal.
So i untap with nothing but 20ish life, an unremarkable board of all support and no creatures, a bojuka boged yard, a land and a mana rock in hand. My top deck is Necrologia and my initial thought is that i'm screwed, since that deck barely plays anything at instant speed - let alone anything that deals with both opponents. Going back and forth, thinking of outs, i realize i have Wake the Dead somewhere in my deck. Knowing i still get to discard i decide to sink all but 4 life into Necrologia (3 life buffer, in case Kaalia of the Vast drops 2 dragons to Dragon Tempest in her first main phase) hoping to draw into Wake the Dead as well any number of creatures to discard that combine for a win or me seeing another turn. I strike lucky and get to dump Massacre Wurm, Gray Merchant of Asphodel, some Fleshbag Marauder variant, Massacre Girl, 2 more creatures i don't remember as well as keeping Undying Evil and actually drawing Wake the Dead!
I pass the turn and the Kaalia of the Vast player takes a lot of time on her first main phase, considering options, but still goes to combat. With her commander ability on the stack i hail mary my creatures back into existence - no counter! - stacking my triggers so that i get one Gary trigger, targeting him with Undying Evil before saccing Gary to Fleshbag, getting another Gary trigger with a wild combination of Massacre Wurm and Massacre Girl imploding the board to drain my opponents to 0 and -1 respectively...

I love this game!
Last edited by Toshi 2 years ago, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 2 years ago

@Toshi That's a great win story. Which incidentally gives me an idea for a thread...
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Post by Legend » 2 years ago

Tried InstaCart for the heck of it.
Downloaded the app.
Waited a few days for a background check and credit card.
Went to a shopping hub in a decent part of town about 9 miles from my house.
Got a crash course in accepting jobs. No time to review each job. There's too much competition. Just swipe accept and hope for the best.
Got my first job. Aldi's, 7 miles back towards my house. To be delivered literally 2 blocks from my house. Literally.
First time doing InstaCart. First time in Aldi's. Didn't know any item on the list. Didn't know where anything was located. Many items were out of stock. Lots of messaging with delayed replies from customer.
At Aldi's, you bag your own groceries.
The whole process took 2 hours 45 minutes.
My pay was exactly $7 minus about $5 in gas for a grand total of $2. That comes out to about 73 cents per hour before taxes.
Thank God the customer tipped $20.53 cents. Still only $8.19 per hour before taxes.
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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

Glad i know all of the major grocery stores around me, the only I don't know are the more specialized ones like the Asian market.
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Post by Legend » 2 years ago

Hey! Remember the DCC? It's still alive and well, but we could always use more participants if not just voters to mix things up. Come join the fun! 🙂
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

I just finished Owlcat's Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous, the second installment after Kingmaker. These games are Unity engine monstrosities with the unutterably confoundingly complex Pathfinder rules - like your really good DM spent a decade homebrewing D&D 3.5 while drunk.

I played it for 130 hours. that's unheard of for me. The game is just so dang good and deep. I hope I can make another run through to experience the other mythic path that interested me, but I'm really wrung out after all those mouseclicks.

I think these games are magnificent but just suffer so much from the impenetrable rules system - you need to be an expert Pathfinder player to have much fun at it, really. I've played enough 3.5 I can figure it out, but yeesh. What a system :P

I ended up with a Legend Sword Saint 20 / Sohei 14 / Slayer 4 / Student of War 2 who rode his horse around murdering everything, and might as well have been solo at the end :P

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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

At the risk of ruining my anonymity, I flew my first solo flight today and here's the pic :)

Image
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

Hmmm buy a plane or buy RL duels.....
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Post by materpillar » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
At the risk of ruining my anonymity, I flew my first solo flight today and here's the pic :)

Image
You look somewhat similar to an acquaintance of mine from college. It's kinda weird. XD

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 2 years ago

@DirkGently Very cool! What was the ratio of nervewracking to exhiliration?
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
You look somewhat similar to an acquaintance of mine from college. It's kinda weird. XD
Did you go to WWU?
TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
2 years ago
@DirkGently Very cool! What was the ratio of nervewracking to exhiliration?
Nervewracking: IIIIII
Exhilarating: IIIIIII
Heat: IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

I used that pic because the ones where I'm stand up outside the plane have a big sweaty patch on my shirt where the harness buckle sits lol.

I was surprised how comfortable it felt being alone, it really wasn't bad. But I'd already done ~5 circuits at that point (basically - you take off, make 4 left turns, land, and do it again, usually taking off immediately after you touch down). It's basically constant work the whole way around, the sun was picking up, it was a bit windy and fairly turbulent from the heat. Had to go-around on my first landing too, so I was feeling pretty exhausted by the time I finally got it down.

It felt great to have done it, and it was fun being alone up there, but it was the same circuit pattern I've flown a few dozen times by now so it doesn't have the same wow factor as my early flights did. Looking forward to flying to new places soon, but gotta have the building blocks tight first of course.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
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Post by toctheyounger » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
At the risk of ruining my anonymity, I flew my first solo flight today and here's the pic :)

Image
Jesus, you look like you barely fit in there. Looks like you had a blast though, congrats. Couldn't be better weather for it atm too.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
2 years ago
Jesus, you look like you barely fit in there. Looks like you had a blast though, congrats. Couldn't be better weather for it atm too.
lol, it's definitely a tight fit. Could have picked slightly bigger planes but it would have cost a few thousand more by the end of the PPL. I'm a cheapskate.

Actually hot weather isn't really optimal. Ideal would be cool and clear. Less turbulence from rising hot air, cool air is denser so better flight performance...and most importantly I wouldn't be sweating like a pig. Still, obviously hot weather is better than bad weather that could prevent flying entirely.
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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
toctheyounger wrote:
2 years ago
Jesus, you look like you barely fit in there. Looks like you had a blast though, congrats. Couldn't be better weather for it atm too.
lol, it's definitely a tight fit. Could have picked slightly bigger planes but it would have cost a few thousand more by the end of the PPL. I'm a cheapskate.

Actually hot weather isn't really optimal. Ideal would be cool and clear. Less turbulence from rising hot air, cool air is denser so better flight performance...and most importantly I wouldn't be sweating like a pig. Still, obviously hot weather is better than bad weather that could prevent flying entirely.
Makes sense. Honestly I wouldn't expect anything but hot and muggy from Auckland for the next 2 months. Summer is pretty oppressive here in recent years.
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| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 2 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
2 years ago
Honestly I wouldn't expect anything but hot and muggy from Auckland for the next 2 months. Summer is pretty oppressive here in recent years.
Oh man, sometimes I forget you fine folks are basically on the other end of the planet. Reading about your humidity and heat in January (when there's rare snow blanketing my yard no less) is just so weird from a I-Just-Woke-Up-And-Have-only-a-Cursory-Grasp-on-Global-Meteorology standpoint.

When's winter for you all? What is winter even like out there? More of a rainy season kind of thing, perhaps? I've got tons of relatives in 🇵🇷 Puerto Rico and they don't get winters, just inundated for a few months.
There's no biscuits and gravy in New Zealand.
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