Best Abzan Removal choices?

[JoeyB11223]

Hey up guys, so I'm having another look at my Doran, the siege tower deck and the removal hasn't been updated in a little while, I'm wondering if newer spells outdo older choices when it comes to targeted removal?

The deck has 4 pseudo one-sided creature boardwipes (spare almost all of my stuff), for instant speed targeted there's..

Abzan Charm
Anguished Unmaking
Beast Within
Krosan Grip
Utter end

I'm generally always happy to see Anguished UnmakingBeast WithinKrosan Grip. Sometimes I find Utter End quite expensive, holding up 4 is a lot to ask in a quite aggressive deck especially when it only removes 1 target. Abzan Charm doubles up as draw in a pinch, but at times it doesn't target enough.

I'm also finding problematic non-creature permanents more of an issue, then there's the balance between broader destroy options or more limited but exile.

My main considerations are..

Despark
Return to nature
Assassin's Trophy
Generous gift
Mortify
Putrefy
Ray of Revelation
Crush Contraband

Most likely Assassin's Trophy or Generous Gift for Utter end and mortify or Despark for Abzan Charm. Though Ray of Revelation is tempting as I'm seeing a lot of problematic enchantments these days.

Thoughts on the best these colours offer, as I've probably missed a few too?

[SocorroTortoise]

It seems like you have the right idea with swapping in low cost options. The only one I would mention is Abrupt Decay, which is admittedly more meta dependent. Odds are pretty good it's not flexible enough if you're looking at Despark. I would definitely find room for Assassin's Trophy either way and think that you've identified the correct cuts (assuming that you're definitely cutting removal - in some decks/metas, adding additional removal may be a better plan than swapping). Despark and Generous Gift both seem better than Abzan Charm as removal, i.e. if you're not using the draw all that often.

How's your recursion package look? If you're running a fair amount of reanimation effects, you can also consider the creature based options for artifact/encahntment removal, Qasali Pridemage, Caustic Caterpillar, and Viridian Zealot. Creature options tend to be a little more expensive unless you're looking at ETB effects, which typically give up instant speed.

[toctheyounger]

It's been a while since I've played Abzan, but I've agonised over the same issues in my Varina deck (Esper). For what it's worth, here's what I've found:

Despark is a bit conditional.
Utter End is a little pricey to be excellent. It's still fine, just not great.
Anguished Unmaking - the price is just right.
Generous Gift - it's just as good as Beast Within.

That being said, Varina is pretty tight on mana through the early-mid game most of the time, so my options are lean and I don't have options for things like Krosan Grip, Reclamation Sage, Caustic Caterpillar, Woodfall Primus, Wickerbough Elder, Terastodon. All of these are options you could or should consider if you have any sort of recursion.

As an aside, if artifacts and enchantments are getting you down, I cannot recommend Wave of Vitriol enough. It wrecks expensive mana bases, and will end even the most resilient rocks. I run it in Nissa, and it is truly excellent. Similarly, Hour of Revelation has been really great for a cheap total wipe in Bruna.

[TearsOfTomorrow]

Trophy, Anguished and Beast are the most versatile ones, so you really ought to play them as they can address literally everything. Krosan Grip is also a necessity if you have a guy in your meta who uses artifacts to perform combos at instant speed (Triskelion, Isochron Scepter etc), so yeah, these are the 4 "must have" ones as far as I'm concerned. Depending on how many removals you can afford to make room for, and on what your meta looks like, I would also consider:

1) Path to Exile/Swords to Plowshares, because they get rid of a creature for one mana

2) Mortify and Putrefy, because they're still quite versatile

3) Diabolic Edict, Liliana's Triumph and Kaya's Guile, because they can get rid of the big bad voltron commander with hexproof

As far as instants go, these are the ones I'd look into.

[pokken]

Unexpectedly absent is imho the best removal in these colors. Doing double duty protecting your own stuff, controlling people's top decks, being insanely flexible.

I tend to play decks that are perfectly happy to kill you while you're waiting a couple draws deep for your haymaker so the downside of it being redrawn is not really ever a concern. Esp. Given the volume of shuffling in edh.

It boggles me that it doesn't see more play. I can't think of a time it wasn't as good as any exile spell and always better than a destruction spell.

[toctheyounger]

Unexpectedly absent is imho the best removal in these colors. Doing double duty protecting your own stuff, controlling people's top decks, being insanely flexible.

I tend to play decks that are perfectly happy to kill you while you're waiting a couple draws deep for your haymaker so the downside of it being redrawn is not really ever a concern. Esp. Given the volume of shuffling in edh.

It boggles me that it doesn't see more play. I can't think of a time it wasn't as good as any exile spell and always better than a destruction spell.

Agreed. It's a really solid addition. There's been times the games on the brink of ending to a combo and it's the only thing that could've kept me alive. Really solid addition to any deck, I really enjoy it in my Bruna list.

[Mookie]

I'll highly recommend Nature's Claim - costing one mana is usually significantly more upside than Krosan Grip's split second.

Windgrace's Judgment can also be worth consideration, if you want a bit more value.

If you're open to sorcery-speed suggestions, Maelstrom Pulse and Council's Judgment are both quite flexible, as is Vindicate.

The best removal cards definitely depend on both meta and your own deck though. I'm not sure if it applies to Doran, but a deck like Karador, Ghost Chieftain may want more enchantment removal to deal with Leyline of the Void and Rest in Peace. Similarly, a player expecting to run into Avacyn, Angel of Hope may want to be running Swords to Plowshares and other exile effects.

[Kemev]

Windgrace's Judgment can also be worth consideration, if you want a bit more value.

If you're open to sorcery-speed suggestions, Maelstrom Pulse and Council's Judgment are both quite flexible, as is Vindicate.

The best removal cards definitely depend on both meta and your own deck though...

Yeah, [mention]JoeyB11223[/mention], could you clarify a bit? Are you specifically looking for instants?

'Cause if you're open to other card types, both [mention]Mookie[/mention] and [mention]SocorroTortoise[/mention] have a pretty good suggestions. Otherwise, the best options have already been mentioned... the only other style of card you might think about are the "free" cost cards, like Snuff Out, Slaughter Pact, Abolish or the new green or black force cards. They're not strictly the best options, but they catch a lot of people unawares (plus they're easy on the mana base).

[Impossible]

I'll throw my support behind Despark as it has quickly become one of my go-to options in EDH. Exiling any permanent type is a pretty big deal, and the things it can't hit are things you're probably not super worried about anyways, as it's hard to think of a <4CMC permanent that demands spot removal. Very flexible card and nowadays I include it in every deck that can run it.

[Mookie]

I'll throw my support behind Despark as it has quickly become one of my go-to options in EDH. Exiling any permanent type is a pretty big deal, and the things it can't hit are things you're probably not super worried about anyways, as it's hard to think of a <4CMC permanent that demands spot removal. Very flexible card and nowadays I include it in every deck that can run it.

I haven't played with Despark myself yet, but it definitely seems like a good inclusion. Most threats are 4+ mana, while cheaper permanents are often less impactful. However, there are two categories I would say that Despark seems likely to miss:

-combo/synergy pieces - think cards like Hardened Scales, Ashnod's Altar, or Azusa, Lost but Seeking - they don't do much on their own, but they function as powerful enablers for the rest of the deck.
-hate pieces - Rest in Peace, Torpor Orb, Pithing Needle, and others. Again, not threats, but very annoying if you're the deck being shut down.

The relevance of hate pieces depends on the deck you're running and the meta you operate in - I imagine a deck like Doran based around high-toughness creatures is less vulnerable to hate than a Karador deck that depends heavily on its graveyard, for example.

[PrimevalCommander]

My current removal package in Abzan. Mix of instant speed and a couple flexible sorcery removal. These are just the instants an sorcery's.

• Anguished Unmaking
• Maelstrom Pulse
• Vindicate
• Assassin's Trophy
• Path to Exile
• Swords to Plowshares

Runners Up

• Beast Within
• Generous Gift
• Putrefy
• Mortify
• Nature's Claim

Creatures. I play a couple of these as well.

• Qasali Pridemage
• Caustic Caterpillar
• Reclamation Sage
• Knight of Autumn
• Acidic Slime
• Fiend Hunter
• Ravenous Chupacabra
• Shadowborn Demon

[hyalopterouslemur]

I'll throw my support behind Despark as it has quickly become one of my go-to options in EDH. Exiling any permanent type is a pretty big deal, and the things it can't hit are things you're probably not super worried about anyways, as it's hard to think of a <4CMC permanent that demands spot removal. Very flexible card and nowadays I include it in every deck that can run it.

Combo pieces, hate pieces, and TBH, the more cutthroat your meta is, the fewer targets Despark has.

[Morganelefay]

Despark is a start of an arms race, much like Disdainful Stroke, funny enough. It's good if you're in a slower meta but people will catch on and try to dodge it by putting in smaller dangerous stuff.

One card I haven't seen mentioned quite yet is Song of the Dryads. Fantastic little card, that, it may not be sorcery speed but it's quite versatile and as long as it ain't hexproof, Song can completely shut it down. It's especially mean against Grixis (and anything within those three colours) decks as they tend to have issues getting rid of it.

[toctheyounger]

Despark is a start of an arms race, much like Disdainful Stroke, funny enough. It's good if you're in a slower meta but people will catch on and try to dodge it by putting in smaller dangerous stuff.

One card I haven't seen mentioned quite yet is Song of the Dryads. Fantastic little card, that, it may not be sorcery speed but it's quite versatile and as long as it ain't hexproof, Song can completely shut it down. It's especially mean against Grixis (and anything within those three colours) decks as they tend to have issues getting rid of it.

Agreed. Great for recurrable pieces, like commanders or just things that come back (Eldrazi titans I guess). Locking something to the board in a relatively unusable form is great. This has always performed really well for me in the past.