JumpStart Cube brainstorming

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RxPhantom
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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

Hello, Nexus!

I'm in the pre-pre-planning stages of a JumpStart cube! I backed the Cubeamajig Series 2 Kickstarter, which is perfect for it. While I do love drafting, I like JumpStart because it can still be a fun, deep Magic experience, but one that can be had when short on time.

I'm really thinking about general themes at the moment. They can be mechanical (elves, affinity, aristocrats, etc.) or thematic (hat tribal, buff dudes, bad art, etc.). The sky's the limit. I'm trying to focus on mono-colored options with plans to go into multicolor themes. I also want a relatively consistent power level, which will likely mean only 1-2 rares per pack, but nothing is set in stone.

The general template is:

12 cards dedicated to theme
7 basic lands
1 dual land (likely one of the Thriving cycle

A few themes I've been thinking about already, starting mostly with well-worn archetypes:

White: Gideon, knights, white weenie
Blue: affinity, sea creatures, Ensoul Artifact
Black: zombies, devotion, reanimator
Red: RDW, goblins, madness
Green: elves, fight, stompy

I know I want to also include many others, including thopters, heroic, prowess, soulbond, cycling, landfall, and basically anything else that could be remotely fun. One of the many advantages of this format is that you can constantly add to it without having to take away. I will probably also have some straight pickups from JumpStart itself.

Do you have any cool ideas or hidden gems? Please please PLEASE share them with me! Let's talk!
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Ulka
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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

So I have a few questions as I was Pondering this:

1. Do you want a set rarity break down so you have 1-2 rare/mythics, 3-4 uncommons and the rest commons or outside the 1-2 rares you aren't caring as much?
2. what is you end goal for pack totals?

Some ideas for packs I had were:

White Angelic Rebirth:
Reya Dawnbringer -R
Emeria Shepherd - R
Shepherd of the Cosmos -U
Defy Death -U
Valor -U
Peace of Mind - U
Late to Dinner - C
Scroll of Avacyn - C
Angelic Renewal - C
Winged Shepherd - C
Stalwart Valkyrie - C
Thraben Standard Bearer - C

Cephalids:
Aboshan, Cehpalid Emperor - R
Commit // Memory - R
Mystic Redaction - U
Cephalid Broker - U
Circular Logic -U
Cephalid Inkshrouder - U
Cephalid Sage - C
Cephalid Looter - C
Cephalid Aristocrat -C
Nagging Thought- C
Deep Analysis - C
Silent Departure - C

Red Werewolves:
Geier Reach Bandit // Vildin-Pack Alpha - R
Mondronen Shaman // Tovolar's Magehunter - R
Reckless Waif // Merciless Predator - U
Village Messenger // Moonrise Intruder - U
Smoldering Werewolf // Erupting Dreadwolf - U
Curse of the Nightly Hunt - U
Gatstaf Arsonists // Gatstaf Ravagers -C
Lunge - C
Village Ironsmith // Ironfang -C
Fearless Pup -C
Fire Prophecy - C
Howlpack Wolf - C


Mono Black Seb Mckinnon
Archfiend of Ifnir - R
Rite of Belzenlok - R
Pale Rider of Trostad - U
Bankrupt in Blood - U
Mire Triton - U
Blood for Bones - U
Unholy Indenture -C
Grisly Survivor - C
Cuombajj Witches - C (make a rarity shift there)
Dirge of Dread - C
Thirsting Shade - C
Wander in Death -C


Green Cheating
Magus of the Order - R
Panglacial Wurm - R
Gamekeeper -U
Bookwurm - U
Great Oak Guardian -U
Thorn Elemental - U
Omen of the Hunt - C
Annoyed Altisaur - C
Horizon Seeker -C
Krosan Tusker - C
Sakura-Tribe Scout - C
Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

I'm gonna be honest with you, @Ulka, I love all of those and will probably build them all. Green cheating especially looks cool. I'm going to start really getting deck lists in mind and start posting them. I think the only one that's actually done is the Gideon one, but I can't find the list right now.

EDIT: The rarity thing is only with rares and mythic. I'm less concerned about commons and uncommons. And the whole restriction is based on keeping a modicum of parity between all decks' power levels. If something turns out too good or laughably bad, swaps can be made.
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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

I have way to many ideas for jump start sets.

Blue options - All cards must make you choose between two options at minimum rare could be mystic confluence and Gifts Ungiven or Sphinx Ambassador.

Black Madness - rares could be Necrogoyf and From Under the Floorboards.

Karn's Bounty
Karn, Scion of Urza - M
Karn's Touch -R
Propaganda - U
Urza's Tome -U
Xanthic Statue -U (rarity Shift)
Shrine of Piercing Vision -C
Miscalculation - C
Sift -C
Bottle Gnomes -C
Guild Globe - C
Fade Away - C


John Avon - Lands
Strip Mine - R
Nemata, Grove Guardian - R
Restore - U
Explosive Vegetation - U
Seedguide Ash -U
Ice Floe -U
Kodama's Reach - C
Explore -C
Dawntreader Elk - C
Evolution Charm - C
Tangle - C
Fog - C
Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

Black madness will need to have Big Game Hunter, too. It feels necessary. Does mono-black have enough good discard outlets to support madness?

As much as I love those Karn and John Avon themes (and I do, very much), I'm not sure how they win. Also, after a Scryfall search, I had no idea John Avon has so many creatures under his belt! I think I'll have to expand the Avon one to be more general.

There are a few other artists I'd be game for building a pack around, like Nils Hamm. *does Scryfall search* Nils did all three (six?) iterations of Delver of Secrets! That's happening.

Semi-Nils Hamm Mono-Blue Delver
Delver of Secrets // Insectile Aberration
Aberrant Researcher // Perfected Form
Docent of Perfection // Final Iteration
Niblis of Dusk
Sigiled Starfish
Jhessian Thief
Shipwreck Dowser
Unsummon|Hour of Devastation
Rain of Revelation
Everdream
Ponder
Mana Leak

Having Ponder and Mana Leak may be too powerful, but we'll see.
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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

for black discard outlets that I like a lot there is:
Putrid Imp, Bone Shards, Hell Mongrel and Tortured Existence at common
Call the Bloodline, Haunted Dead, Necromancer's Familiar and Skirge Familiar at uncommon

so that opens up quite a few routes on that.

Yea I love artist packs as especially if an artist has done 60+ card often the themes fit together as the art style and play style of the cards.


I just decided to design a wayne Renolds pack
Zo-Zu the Punisher - R
Bogardan Hellkite - R
Pirate's Pillage - U
Cunning Sparkmage -U
Fanatical Firebrand - U
Desperate Ritual -U
Gorehorn Minotaurs -C
Soul's Fire -C
Stingscourger - C
Crack the Earth -C
Brute Force - C
Unnatural Speed -C


This Pack made me very happy about a bad mechanic which could be showcased - Splice!
Through the Breach - R
Skyfire Kirin -R
Earthshaker - U
Living Lightning - U
Guttersnipe - U
Ardent Dustspeaker -U
Ghitu Chronicler - C
Desperate Ritual - C
Lava Spike - C
Crack the Earth -C
Glacial Ray - C
Unnatural Speed -C


Heck this makes me want to design a pack for old mechanics that are too parasitic on their own but here can be contained and made semifunctional

Venture
Food
Flashback - this is just fun in general
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Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

I had splice on my mind, too! Themes like that and madness seem pretty tough to viably design.

I was thinking that since the sky's the limit, there will be plenty of time for more creative themes. Right now, I'm trying to get three themes for each color just to get things started. I don't want them to be boring, but I am kind of thinking in the box for the most part. But only for now. With that in mind, white is the only thing I've finished, with:

Knights
Knight Exemplar
Kinsbaile Cavalier
Dauntless Bodyguard
Spectral Rider
Ardenvale Tactician // Dizzying Swoop
Attended Knight
Dawnstrike Paladin
Knight of the Tusk
Test of Faith
Journey to Nowhere
Celestial Flare
Gods Willing

Gideon
Gideon Jura
Daring Skyjek
Gideon's Avenger
Gideon's Lawkeeper
Bulwark Giant
Trusted Pegasus
Knight of the Pilgrim's Road
Archetype of Courage
Gideon's Triumph
Inspired Charge
Gideon's Reproach
Gideon's Sacrifice

but I'm pretty proud of this one

Combat is Hard
Angelic Page
Serra Advocate
Serra Paladin
Heavy Ballista
Niblis of the Urn
Guardian of the Gateless
Tenth District Veteran
Sentinel of the Eternal Watch
Zhalfirin Crusader
Always Watching
Act of Heroism
Pit Trap

I also have two red themes with burn and goblins, one blue one with the aforementioned Delver, but...that's it. If you've got any suggestions to fill the gaps, I'm all ears. I'll post those other lists later.
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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

RxPhantom wrote:
2 years ago
I had splice on my mind, too! Themes like that and madness seem pretty tough to viably design.

I was thinking that since the sky's the limit, there will be plenty of time for more creative themes. Right now, I'm trying to get three themes for each color just to get things started. I don't want them to be boring, but I am kind of thinking in the box for the most part. But only for now.

I also have two red themes with burn and goblins, one blue one with the aforementioned Delver, but...that's it. If you've got any suggestions to fill the gaps, I'm all ears. I'll post those other lists later.
The White themes feel very solid. I feel like Gideon could be adjusted aver so slightly but the decks feel solid and fun to play.

i'd love to see Gideon's Company in the list with Desperate Lunge and Renewed Faith. but that might just be me
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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

Ulka wrote:
2 years ago
RxPhantom wrote:
2 years ago
I had splice on my mind, too! Themes like that and madness seem pretty tough to viably design.

I was thinking that since the sky's the limit, there will be plenty of time for more creative themes. Right now, I'm trying to get three themes for each color just to get things started. I don't want them to be boring, but I am kind of thinking in the box for the most part. But only for now.

I also have two red themes with burn and goblins, one blue one with the aforementioned Delver, but...that's it. If you've got any suggestions to fill the gaps, I'm all ears. I'll post those other lists later.
The White themes feel very solid. I feel like Gideon could be adjusted aver so slightly but the decks feel solid and fun to play.

i'd love to see Gideon's Company in the list with Desperate Lunge and Renewed Faith. but that might just be me
I really wanted Gideon's Company to work, actually, but a lot of it's functionality is lost if the PW card isn't on the field, and I don't think the other cards have much if any life gain. I missed Desperate Lunge, though. I'll probably make room for it.

Got any ideas for the remaining 'meat and potatoes' themes?
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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

Red should have Burn, Goblins and Sarkhan I think.

I vote Sarkhan over chandra because Sarkhan will give you a dragons pack without needing it to truly be dragons.

Black I'd Love to see Zombies, Reanimate, and Liliana

blue could be spirits, Sea Creatures, and jace or teferi
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Post by cheonice » 2 years ago

Yes! Full on Jumpstart! Sorry for joining the party this late, my week has been exhausting.

I talked to a guy on facebook, who did something similiar.
He provided the decklists with each pack. In addition to that each player received a toploader with the basic rules attached. I asked him, if I could share his pics here. Could be a neat addition.

Jumpstart.jpeg

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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

@ulka: Sarkhan is a cool choice. The only ones I know I have are and Sarkhan Vol and Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker. For Liliana, I frankly have no idea which one I'd choose, as she's transitioned over the years from discard-y control piece to zombie queen. I know I own Liliana Vess, Liliana, Heretical Healer // Liliana, Defiant Necromancer, and Professor Onyx. She could go in any number of directions.

Side note: not that you would automatically know what's in my collection or not, but I am trying to use cards from my collection almost exclusively. I don't have any issues with picking up anything that isn't obscenely priced.

@cheonice: those are really cool ideas. About those first ones with the turn breakdown, are they custom made or are they rules cards that have been in packs?
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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

Burn (R)
Vexing Devil
Monastery Swiftspear
Flametongue Kavu
Viashino Pyromancer
Splatter Thug
Keldon Champion
Ghitu Chronicler
Devil's Play
Reckless Abandon
Abrade
Lightning Bolt
Magma Jet

Goblins (R)
Goblin Chieftain
Goblin Rabblemaster
Frenzied Goblin
Goblin Ringleader
Rummaging Goblin
Boggart Brute
Mardu Scout
Goblin Battle Jester
Goblin Heelcutter
Goblin Grenade
Hordeling Outburst
Stoke the Flames

My general template is going to be 8 creatures, 4 other spells, and 8 lands. We can fluctuate, like with these two. Goblins have 9 creatures and burn only has 7. The curve on goblins is so low that it could maybe cut a land.

Even though we're still hashing out mono-colored, what do you two think about the mana base for two-color themes? I'm thinking maybe a tapped dual land with perhaps a Rupture Spire variant or a vivd? Thoughts?
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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

I think with 2 color packs we would want 10 basics, 5 of each color and then whichever color fixing land you plan to use then a Gate or ETB tapped Dual.

Speaking of Gates: I do think it could be fun to make a Gates packs:
all lands are Gates
Maze's End -M
Golos, Tireless Pilgrim - R
Circuitous Route -U
Gatebreaker Ram -U
Gates Ablaze -U
Guild Summit -U
Greenside Watcher - C
Sunspire Gatekeepers -c
Arboreal Grazer -c
Scaretiller -C
Ubul Sar Gatekeepers -C
Tilling Treefolk -c
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Post by JovialJovian » 2 years ago

I have been casually mullling over a Jumpstart Cube for about a year, but haven't given it serious work since in-person Magic hasn't really been a thing.

The idea that really got my wheels turning was to include "bonus upgrades" in the packs that players could get lucky by getting certain pairings.
Specifically, the cards that are one color and are Ok by themselves, but care about another color or colors. So you'd include them in the pack of their primary color, but if the player got lucky and their other pack was the complementary color, that card would be much stronger.
For example Marang River Prowler or Cliffrunner Behemoth.
Or, more simply, cards that are one color, but have an activated ability or a kicker that's another color, again providing significant upgrade when a lucky pairing is found, but also benefiting from multicolored lands or other mana sources.
For example Kird Chieftain or Probe.
Not gonna lie, there's not very many of any of these, they only ever appeared in small numbers in a few highly-multicolored sets, but I think the concept would be fun in Jumpstart.

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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

@JovialJovian: I'm actually a big fan of that Flinthoof Boar cycle from M13. It's an intriguing idea. I guess I want the cards to be playable on their own, and I'm a little hesitant. I plan on building lots and lots of deck, and that kind of volume may diminish my hesitance. I've started to like it more and more just as I type this though, lol.
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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

I've been brewing the sarkhan pack:

Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker - M
Form of the Dragon -R
Sarkhan's Triumph -U
Sarkhan's Whelp - U
Dragon Tempest -U
Hellkite Punisher [/card] - U
Dragonlord's Servant - C
Tormenting Voice -C
Furnace Whelp -C
Lightning Shrieker -C
Dragon's Fire - C
Sarkhan's Rage -C


For liliana basically slap 12 cards together from Here and you got a jumpstart pack. I personally vote OG Liliana becasue Im a monster and love that card so much
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Post by JovialJovian » 2 years ago

There are also the spells that care whether you spent mana of a particular color to cast them. The Shadowmoor/Eventide hybrid cycle can be slotted into a mono-colored deck of either color, and then provide that bonus mode with a lucky pairing. You just have to decide if the mono mode is worth inclusion, I would put Cankerous Thirst into a black pack, but it probably wouldn't make the cut in a green pack.

The Ravnica version is a lot more railroaded, and slightly sub-par, but you could give them a look as well, if they fit the theme of the pack in their primary mode. For instance, I would consider Tin Street Hooligan for a red goblin pack.

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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

After some serious deliberation, I finally chose sleeves for this cube. And they arrived! I went with Sapphire Dragonshield Mattes. Hopefully, the Cubamijigs kickstarter will start production soon and I can start really assembling packs. What I really want to do is finalize the initial lists so I can start pouring over my collection to track things down. I really like a lot of @Ulka's theme ideas.

@JovialJovian: I think I may a few of these kinds of cards you mentioned, but I don't want too many. I don't want there to be too many chances of players having dead cards. I'd like the special bonus to be infrequent, too.
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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

I'm considering apes for Gruul. I'm trying to find non-creature cards depicting apes, but all I can think of is Bestial Fury.
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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

Do you just know all of this offhand, or do you have a source to look up stuff like Chairs (which I'm totally going going to use holy crap that's awesome)? And I've always really liked that Dwarven Berserker is also in Fit of Rage. I love that kind of stuff.
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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

Some of it is off hand and the fact I know waaaaay to many cards by memory the other section comes from scryfall tagger. I liked it above
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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

How goes the building of the jumpstart cube?
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