State of Legacy Thread

Yawgmoth
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Post by Yawgmoth » 7 months ago

Is Underworld Breach getting the ban hammer on Monday?

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drmarkb
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Post by drmarkb » 7 months ago

I think we can handle breach. I did paper event with 32 and 15 players respectively, it was something players were super aware of and was unseen in the 15, and 2 copies maybe in the 32. Chalice on 0, Force et al against the Breach, 3ball, Sphere of R, Oophe, Karn gtc are all maindeckable and easy to find via tutors or weight of numbers with decks running 3 sphere also running Chalice.

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Post by drmarkb » 7 months ago

Apparently not!!!!!!!!!

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Post by Yawgmoth » 7 months ago

Breach was definitely underrepresented in paper compared to MTGO. I think the cost of LED and the threat of a ban kept the numbers low in paper. If they hadn't banned it I think that would have changed as the win rate would eventually attract more players.

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motleyslayer
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Post by motleyslayer » 7 months ago

I'm a paper sneak and show player, which is sort of a poor choice right now because of Oko. I have really been considering getting mana traders or something to rent decks on MTGO and wanna try reanimator, is that deck poorly positioned because of Oko right now too?

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Post by Yawgmoth » 6 months ago

@motleyslayer i would think that Reanimator would be fine against Oko. Most Oko decks are relatively slow so you should be able to go off before they can set up. I would be more concerned about Veil if Summer than Oko.

I've seen a number of Simic Omnitell decks doing well lately, which might be another option if you want to stick with the combo creature kill.

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Post by motleyslayer » 6 months ago

I keep hearing how UG omnitell is the better version of Sneak and Show RN, I just don't think I play enough paper legacy to justify switching as I would need the pieces. I'll look into it on MTGO to see if it's under my rental limit

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Post by Yawgmoth » 6 months ago

There's a guy at my LGS who plays it regularly and does very well. You get to mainboard Veil of Summer to protect your combo which is a pretty nice upside for very little cost.

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Post by drmarkb » 6 months ago

Yes, G offers Veil- unless it gets banned down the line- and Eureka. In European and Japanese environments playing main deck veil is a lot riskier, although S n T has super matches against lands, depths etc. you can still come stuck against old fashioned prison decks- you will find more chalices, 3 spheres and bridges outside the US in more than just Dragon stompy to boot.
I would be wary in paper of converting- if Veil goes, and it is a possibility- then you get eureka, which is great but not worth the splash by itself.

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motleyslayer
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Post by motleyslayer » 6 months ago

the only prison deck I have experience playing against as Sneak and Show is the mono red prison deck, which I felt pretty good about my side going against.

I'm not sure if veil will ever get the ban n legacy, I just haven't gotten to build the UG build. I mean yeah veil and Oko have kind of warped teh format but I'm not sure if they've warped it as bad as other formats

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Post by drmarkb » 6 months ago

Surprising, that. Are you running wish in S n S?
The correct play vs the critter only S n S is to sandbag a Bridge- never cast it- , and try to ride the show and tell. If you put in breach or emmy or GB, the bridge stops it there and then- and the s n s player needs bounce. If you have dropped in chalice on zero (for petal, which is sometimes the correct play despite most players instinctively putting chalice to 1), or karn, or 3 sphere, the odds of SnS being able to draw and play bounce in the turn it shows of Grisselbrand are slim. I own both decks in paper, and loan them a lot- I seem to remember it is a 50/50 match- whereas Omnitell with wish/release the ants is a bit better against it as sandbagging the bridge is effective against half the deck only.

Eureka puts permanents in iirc, meaning opponents get to put walkers in, which makes for an interesting game.

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Post by Iso » 6 months ago

I was playing Depths most recently before I sold out of Legacy, and I never had an issue with Oko decks with that. My primary deck before that was Sneak & Breach, and I don't think that would have had many issues with Oko, either.

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Post by drmarkb » 6 months ago

Oko is not an issue in the format, generally- other than he has turned UW miracles bant and changed the way it plays.
It is good vs Show and tell running out a dude, but then only if S n T player is playing badly- they don't exactly run out a dude into a waiting Oko very often.

Astrolabe is an issue, hard to see otherwise.
Veil may be an issue, although I don't think so.
Tef 3 isn't an issue.
The Uro -fest you see online is a result of astrolabe.
Companion will be an issue.

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Post by Yawgmoth » 6 months ago

Companion is definitely going to cause problems. It's is either going to lead to super OP broken decks or it might just homogenize the format around 3-4 cards.

I get the feeling that it will make every deck with a companion play like a combo deck. Obviously these decks can okay without them but they have inclusions which only work because of the companion (Ie Mishra's Bauble in Lurrus Delver). This will incentives players to play more hatebears. I'm thinking cards like Meddling Mage will become maindeck viable. The winner of the 4/20/20 Legacy Challenge had 3 in a Lurrus Delver deck. I don't doubt that was due to the prevalence of Companions.

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2020-04-20

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Post by drmarkb » 5 months ago

Latest online results, it is a total cluster f
Lurrus everything Delver, basically, and Legacy is cracked like an egg.
FIRE is right, and exactly what should happen to the berks in play design.

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Post by drmarkb » 5 months ago

Lurrus and Zirdda gone........too conservative in my book but better than just Lurrus...

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Post by Yawgmoth » 5 months ago

Agreed. I was not really expecting anything more than Lurrus but at least they had the foresight to hit Zirda as well.

Some people we're convinced that Astrolabe would be banned but that was delusional/wishful thinking.

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Post by motleyslayer » 5 months ago

I'm glad they decided to ban something because they realized that it could be absurd once the main problem is banned. Lurrus was probably the bare minimum but I'm glad they banned Zirdda as well. Astrolabe or Oko could probably go too but I don't know for sure

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Post by drmarkb » 5 months ago

Labe must go, hopefully it will go soon. The issue is under FIRE we have lots of fires to contend with, so a rotten card that screws tenets most players hold dear- 5 colour piles come at a price- is not high on their radar. They don't want to admit to yet more cock ups....

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Post by drmarkb » 4 months ago

Companion..
Blue Belcher dies
Not sure about Mr 80. At least they did not unban the latest two.

Sadly labe piles with UG cores will continue for some time......

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Post by motleyslayer » 4 months ago

the companion update was probably needed as they were too good across all formats

the finals of the Lotus Box legacy event last week was a blue belcher mirror and the hosts of the Grindcast said it was a match of whoever was on the play won the game.

I'm hoping labe gets the ban soon but I think it's probably bound to happen. I'm still not sure how I feel on Oko in legacy

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Post by Iso » 4 months ago

I have a friend who is using Yorion Food Chain to good results. It's kind of marvelous to watch.

I think Oko's a problem for fair decks, but not so much for combo.

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Post by motleyslayer » 4 months ago

In paper legacy, I play Sneak and Show and online I play Reanimator. I guess Oko can be a problem sometimes but I guess I can just go off before it matters other hands.

Oko is absurd in fair games though, he's got so much utility by himself

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Post by drmarkb » 4 months ago

New elf one drop will make Chalice sad. Got to be a Elf inclusion of course. All those uncounterables.....
Damn WOTC want to make this a game of creatures.....

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Post by The Fluff » 3 months ago

@drmarkb

from which set is this new elf one-drop?

the elf itself is uncounterable? thanks for info.
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