How many Dual Lands do I need?

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Post by Yawgmoth » 11 months ago

I am new to Legacy and trying to figure out what my land base should look like. I am playing Jund Goblins (Rbg). I understand that in Legacy lands work a little differently from Modern but I'm not super clear on how to incorporate this into my deck building.

One thing I've noticed is that Legacy decks tend to have higher total land counts and more basic lands than modern decks (due to the presence of land destruction).

For my Modern Jund Goblins I use:
Decklist
Approximate Total Cost:

For a legacy deck would I just replace the Shocklands with Duals? (1x Badlands, Taiga, and Bayou each). And then decrease the Fetchland count to increase the basic land counts? Normally I max out on Fetches (aprox. 8) and then run 1 each of the shocks I need. I'm thinking something like the below. Any thoughts?
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Approximate Total Cost:


Also, if anyone has any lessons for a beginner on how to manage lands/mana in Legacy I would be very thankful!

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Post by The Fluff » 11 months ago

If you're going mono red gobs I suggest this.
Decklist
Approximate Total Cost:

for jund goblins, this might be good. I tried making it as cheap as possible by using khans fetches only.
Decklist
Approximate Total Cost:

Take my suggestions with a grain of salt, as my knowledge of the format could be outdated.
It's been more than 3 years since I last played legacy. I like gempalm incinerators, they provide creature removal + a little velocity to the deck with the cycling. :)
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Post by Yawgmoth » 11 months ago

Thanks! I have all of the cards for mono-red so that is my default mode. I also have a full set of Khans fetches so all I'm missing is Duals, I just don't want to waste cash in cards I won't use. I want to splash b/g for Volrath's Stronghold and Once Upon a Time along with Sling-gang, Murderous Redcap, and Grumgully. (I don't want to turn this into a goblin deck design page but I'll post my full list in the legacy gobo deck section!)

My operating assumption in Legacy is that I should only expect to tap my Dual Lands once. Anything past that is gravy. Is that a fair assumption? As such I think your suggestion of 1x Badlands and 1x Bayou makes more sense then 1x Badlands and 1x Taiga. Taiga is less good because I can only only get green whereas Bayou gives me a green AND black source which is even better than Badlands in terms of helping my splash.

Am I right to assume that I should be playing a few more lands than I am used to in modern? And that these should be basic lands? I'm trying to think about this from the perspective of developing guidelines for building a Legacy mana base.

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Post by The Fluff » 11 months ago

hmm, maybe ask a mod to combine this with the legacy gob thread?

I highly suggest you go to your lgs first and play the mono red list, before spending on any dual land. See if you really like playing gobs here or is it just a passing impulse to try something new? If after playing with mono red you are still happy with gobs, then that's the time to start planning to buy any dual. This would avoid unnecessary spending. Take it from me, it took years before I was able to resell all my duals after quitting legacy.

From my years in legacy. Not every legacy deck has wasteland, and some people are on a budget too so they don't have it. But if you come across someone who has them, expect them to use it on your nonbasics.

here's a few sideboard cards that you might find useful. :)

stingscourger - fetchable by matron against reanimator decks

goblin settler - land destruction with a body, also fetchable by matron.

pyroblast, red elemental blast - red counterspell against blue decks, kills blue planeswalkers and blue enchantments for only one mana. Yes, here in legacy red can kill enchantment.

goblin sharpshooter - against elves or decks with plenty of 1/1
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Post by schweinefett » 11 months ago

Are 2 ports the norm? most goblin players ive played against have played the full 4 (i think). the mana-denial strategy is definitely a strong win-con against many decks.

It could be a thing, but i'd also suggest you find a stock list of mono-red goblins and give it a whirl. I'm not sure if modern goblins is the same archetype as legacy goblins. legacy goblins that ive seen works as an aggro-control sorta deck. it's really good at grinding, and it can shift gears to be blindingly fast if need be.

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Post by Yawgmoth » 11 months ago

I've seen some people drop a Port to accommodate Volraths Stronghold. My logic for dropping the second was that Once Upon a Time gives me pretty good filtering so I can dig more to find what I want. I will keep that in mind though. I already own 4 so I will probably start there. Thanks for the advice. Since I've never actually played a game with Wastelands or Ports it's probably a good idea to get some experience with them considering how central it is to the strategy.

As far as modern versus legacy goblins goes, my modern list is based on the legacy builds. In the past two years almost all of the core goblin cards have been printed in modern (all but lackey). I even run full sets of ghost quarters for land destruction. So in that sense they are pretty similar. The modern deck plays as a control toolbox deck that can switch to aggro when needed. This play style is by far the most fun of any deck I've ever played, lots of decisions and the games play out very differently from each other. Before the printings of Goblin Matron and Goblin Ringleader this year the deck was just a basic/weak aggro pile.

As far as rushing out to buy Duals, I think you both have convinced me to try mono-red first before needless spending. I get the impression that mono-red is competitive in its own right. I just didn't want to be playing a weaker/budget version of an otherwise good deck since I thought that it wouldn't give me a good taste for the Legacy format.

Someone at my LGS in the Legacy play group suggested using battle lands for my splash since Goblins play so many basics. For example, maybe just a single Smoldering Marsh for the black splash. Any thoughts on this? Too slow?

***mods feel free to merge with goblins but I was hoping to get discussion about when to/not to buy dual lands as that seems to be a major barrier for entry into legacy***

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Post by drmarkb » 11 months ago

I own Legacy goblins, took advice from regular long time players putting it together.
Advice was basically
4 port
4 Waste
Caverns
Mountains

Keep it mono r as a green splash is now pointless.

I took the advice and have loaned the deck many times, played it a little.

I would consider only a black splash for the prowl goblin for combo decks, certainly no need for Jund colours. The deck is like an odd d n t deck, v fast and aggressive sometimes, controlling at others.

There are loads of new goblins and troublesome artifacts are easily munched. Stingscourger should be main deck as well as board. A one of sharpshooter/mana sac combo is worth playing.

I would include a board of Leyline otv or more likely fae macabre and grafdiggers' cage for bin hate, confusion in the ranks for show n tell (look it up to see how it works), and dead gone for 20 20 marit L. Learn the Wasteland interaction with Depths/Stage too.

Plenty of useful anti storm tech exists - dampening sphere, pryrostatic pillar etc. The format is full of good hate.

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Post by The Fluff » 11 months ago

pyrostatic pillar is indeed good. Used three of those as sideboard for my legacy affinity against combo decks.
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