[C19] mass diminish (a missing new card for the jeskai deck)


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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

well that's just adorable.

pretty impressive cost on that one. doesn't remove abilities and it's not an instant, though. I guess you could attack with a bunch of tokens, let them block and eat your army, and then cast this post-combat for big lulz though.
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Lucifer, Sapere Aude
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Post by Lucifer, Sapere Aude » 4 years ago

being sorcery makes this card really bad. Especially for the flahback mode, it even lose the surprise effect. Is really this the power level we should expect from a card that is tournament legal only in vintage and legacy formats? This really needed to be instant, also because of multiplayer shenaningans.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 4 years ago

It'll be perfectly playable in the precon, given what they set up the removal suite to be like. I can't imagine it making too big a splash outside it though.
 
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Post by Jace » 4 years ago

Lucifer, Sapere Aude wrote:
4 years ago
being sorcery makes this card really bad. Especially for the flahback mode, it even lose the surprise effect. Is really this the power level we should expect from a card that is tournament legal only in vintage and legacy formats? This really needed to be instant, also because of multiplayer shenaningans.
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Post by Cyberium » 4 years ago

Lucifer, Sapere Aude wrote:
4 years ago
Is really this the power level we should expect from a card that is tournament legal only in vintage and legacy formats?
Huh? Just because it's legal in Legacy/Vintage doesn't mean it has to be competitive in those formats. Wood Elemental is also Legacy/Vintage legal only.

Seivnne is immune to damage, so an Earthquake or any Tim effect would kill opponents' creatures off easy, like Goblin Sharpshooter.

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Post by SyntheticDreamer » 4 years ago

It's Jeskai but I almost want to play it in Esper and run Night of Souls' Betrayal and lose all my friends.
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Post by SecretInfiltrator » 4 years ago

"Until your next turn" means that guy is looking forward to a lot of broken glass... and furniture.

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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 4 years ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
4 years ago
It'll be perfectly playable in the precon, given what they set up the removal suite to be like. I can't imagine it making too big a splash outside it though.
I could see it being used with Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite or Night of Souls' Betrayal or Pestilence for a perfect one-sided boardwipe. But most of that is stuff you can already use Humility for.
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Post by Lucifer, Sapere Aude » 4 years ago

Cyberium wrote:
4 years ago
Lucifer, Sapere Aude wrote:
4 years ago
Is really this the power level we should expect from a card that is tournament legal only in vintage and legacy formats?
Huh? Just because it's legal in Legacy/Vintage doesn't mean it has to be competitive in those formats. Wood Elemental is also Legacy/Vintage legal only.

Seivnne is immune to damage, so an Earthquake or any Tim effect would kill opponents' creatures off easy, like Goblin Sharpshooter.

You can't compare orange and apples. Wood Elemental is a card of 20 years ago, when designers has no idea how to balance cards and cared more on the flavor than the power level on tournament setting, and a lot of errors were made in one sense or the other. Commander cards on the other hand are designed with the consciousness that are not standard legal (a format distinction that didn't even exist probably at the time of Legends), inside a precon, so without the constraint of a limited environment and specifically focused for the commander standards and multiplayer interaction. So what are you actually talking about?
The card is weak. It's irrelevant to say that it get stronger in conjunction with other cards becase even Feather makes unplayable limited junk playable. That doesn't mean the unplayable junk is acceptable for the standards of EDH per se. Same thing with this spell. There were a 3 mana spell that did the same thing at instant speed and not only was better (the creatures even lose the abilities) but it was even printed in a core set available for standard, not a supplemental set with a higher power level expectation (because supplemental sets, since their inception, ARE designed and developed with the conscious will to have stronger cards than the average standard legal set) Thats why I wont defense this card sorry

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Cyberium
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Post by Cyberium » 4 years ago

Lucifer, Sapere Aude wrote:
4 years ago
Cyberium wrote:
4 years ago
Lucifer, Sapere Aude wrote:
4 years ago
Is really this the power level we should expect from a card that is tournament legal only in vintage and legacy formats?
Huh? Just because it's legal in Legacy/Vintage doesn't mean it has to be competitive in those formats. Wood Elemental is also Legacy/Vintage legal only.

Seivnne is immune to damage, so an Earthquake or any Tim effect would kill opponents' creatures off easy, like Goblin Sharpshooter.

You can't compare orange and apples. Wood Elemental is a card of 20 years ago, when designers has no idea how to balance cards and cared more on the flavor than the power level on tournament setting, and a lot of errors were made in one sense or the other. Commander cards on the other hand are designed with the consciousness that are not standard legal (a format distinction that didn't even exist probably at the time of Legends), inside a precon, so without the constraint of a limited environment and specifically focused for the commander standards and multiplayer interaction. So what are you actually talking about?
I will elaborate. 1) Not standard/modern legal does NOT mean it has to be Legacy/Vintage viable. 2) Commander precons and its content are primarily designed for non-competitive commander play. You won't get True-Name Nemesis and Teferi's Protection all the time, and Mass Diminish is hardly the best card in 2019, which makes it a false clause when discussing about Legacy/Vintage format.
Lucifer, Sapere Aude wrote:
4 years ago
The card is weak. It's irrelevant to say that it get stronger in conjunction with other cards becase even Feather makes unplayable limited junk playable. That doesn't mean the unplayable junk is acceptable for the standards of EDH per se. Same thing with this spell. There were a 3 mana spell that did the same thing at instant speed and not only was better (the creatures even lose the abilities) but it was even printed in a core set available for standard, not a supplemental set with a higher power level expectation (because supplemental sets, since their inception, ARE designed and developed with the conscious will to have stronger cards than the average standard legal set) Thats why I wont defense this card sorry
Again, just because it's not printed in a Standard legal set doesn't mean it has to be powerful. There's no rule saying that supplemental set has to have higher power level, and that's all the more true consider EDH format is filled with casual players at heart, flavor and social interactions will always come first. I am not saying Mass Diminish is a powerful card, but it's delusional to wish any card printed in a precon of a casual format to be Legacy/Vintage tournament viable.
Lucifer, Sapere Aude wrote:
4 years ago
The card is weak. It's irrelevant to say that it get stronger in conjunction with other cards becase even Feather makes unplayable limited junk playable.
This is the biggest fallacy I've seen in a while. The point of deck building is precisely finding cards with synergy, even weak ones, and make it work. Yes, Feather make a lot of weaker cards useful in EDH, but at the same time you can't make a Feather deck without those repetitive, weaker cantrips either. Hermit Druid by itself is weak unless you build your entire deck around it, but who could deny the result of a fine deck building involved?

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