[news] Universes Beyond - Warhammer 40k and Lord of the Rings expansions

[Legend]

TWD crossover made me realize just how much I detest "RL" in MTG. I hope Hasbro never does it again, but I'm not counting on it.

[dangerousdice]

TWD crossover made me realize just how much I detest "RL" in MTG. I hope Hasbro never does it again, but I'm not counting on it.

what does "RL" mean @Legend ?

[Legend]

TWD crossover made me realize just how much I detest "RL" in MTG. I hope Hasbro never does it again, but I'm not counting on it.

what does "RL" mean @Legend ?

real life

[Sporegorger_Dragon]

Tolkien's estate is never going to license the Silmarillion for anything, but I think there are plenty of creatures that are at least mentioned between the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings for lots of creature types. We might not get Eärendil or Túrin legends specifically but besides Humans, Elves, Dwarves, and Orcs we'll be seeing things like Spiders, Wolves/Wolf Beasts (Wargs), Elephants (Mûmakil), Birds (Crebain and Great Eagles)... Even sapient Bears if we get the Beornings.

Ents, my man, and Huorns.

The granddaddy of all tree people in fantasy. The direct inspiration of Trents.

There plenty enough creatures, I think.

[RxPhantom]

I don't know about this. It's too early to pass judgment, but I don't want Magic to be an empty vessel for other IPs. I don't want to sit down to a Commander game against, like, Gimley, Samus Aran, and Shredder. I don't want to equip Mjolinir to Voldemort.

By the end of 2022, Magic will have included at least four different IPs in black border. When these sell like hot cakes, why wouldn't they put them into Standard? How are they disincentivized from doing so? Actually, why does it matter if it's Standard or not? It's still black border. I don't want to feel pressure, whether internal or external, to include some 40K card into a Commander deck because it's strictly better than something that's already there.

I'm trying not to be hyperbolic or engage in doomsaying, but my first impression is negative.

[Sporegorger_Dragon]

I don't know about this. It's too early to pass judgment, but I don't want Magic to be an empty vessel for other IPs. I don't want to sit down to a Commander game against, like, Gimley, Samus Aran, and Shredder. I don't want to equip Mjolinir to Voldemort.

By the end of 2022, Magic will have included at least four different IPs in black border. When these sell like hot cakes, why wouldn't they put them into Standard? How are they disincentivized from doing so? Actually, why does it matter if it's Standard or not? It's still black border. I don't want to feel pressure, whether internal or external, to include some 40K card into a Commander deck because it's strictly better than something that's already there.

While this is a legitimate concern, I don't think that really matters unless you are into cEDH.

I mean, regular EDH/Commander players already omit cards because they don't fit their aesthetic and theme.

And I doubt Magic will be an 'empty vessel' for other media; I don't that will even be sustainable as a business model (for an active TCG) if they only did that.

Anyway; how about that Final Fantasy MtG set, eh? Final Fantasy originally stole was inspired by Dungeons and Dragons, so there's even a connection there.

I mean, they even share Bahamut (that Final Fantasy stole); I could easily see a multiverse crossover based on that as a plot point.

[RxPhantom]

While this is a legitimate concern, I don't think that really matters unless you are into cEDH.

Players outside of cEDH still like playing optimized and efficient decks.

[Krishnath]

I mean, they even share Bahamut (that Final Fantasy stole); I could easily see a multiverse crossover based on that as a plot point.

Bahamut is not originally from D&D, it's from Mesopotamian myth, same with Tiamat and everyone's favorite Bird Demon Pazuzu.

[Sporegorger_Dragon]

I mean, they even share Bahamut (that Final Fantasy stole); I could easily see a multiverse crossover based on that as a plot point.

Bahamut is not originally from D&D, it's from Mesopotamian myth, same with Tiamat and everyone's favorite Bird Demon Pazuzu.

I mean, I know Bahamut is not a D&D invention, but it original origin is that of a giant fish. That is to say, all treatises on the matter refer to Bahamut as a massive cosmic fish (or occasionally whale).

Bahamut being a dragon is entirely a D&D invention, the first to do so, and is the direct inspiration why Final Fantasy refers to its popular recurring dragon as Bahamut.

He has never been described as a dragon prior to his D&D portrayal.

At any rate, Final Fantasy was basically a unlicensed D&D video game. The Otyugh became Ochu, the Beholder became the Evil Eye/Ahriman, Sahuagin became Shagin (great job guys), all their slime monsters are referred to as pudding in their original Japanese, and Mindflayer and Gorgimera retain their names.

[Krishnath]

I mean, they even share Bahamut (that Final Fantasy stole); I could easily see a multiverse crossover based on that as a plot point.

Bahamut is not originally from D&D, it's from Mesopotamian myth, same with Tiamat and everyone's favorite Bird Demon Pazuzu.

I mean, I know Bahamut is not a D&D invention, but it original origin is that of a giant fish. That is to say, all treatises on the matter refer to Bahamut as a massive cosmic fish (or occasionally whale).

Bahamut being a dragon is entirely a D&D invention, the first to do so, and is the direct inspiration why Final Fantasy refers to its popular recurring dragon as Bahamut.

He has never been described as a dragon prior to his D&D portrayal.

At any rate, Final Fantasy was basically a unlicensed D&D video game. The Otyugh became Ochu, the Beholder became the Evil Eye/Ahriman, Sahuagin became Shagin (great job guys), all their slime monsters are referred to as pudding in their original Japanese, and Mindflayer and Gorgimera retain their names.

That is entirely correct. D&D co-opted the name to use for the good counterpart to Tiamat. FF then "borrowed" the dragon interpretation to their game.

Fun Fact: There is another computer game that is kinda well known in some circles that use Bahamut in its original whale/serpent/fish incarnation. The insanely hard platformer La-Mulana.

Back on topic: Maro has confirmed that he was briefly on the LotR set's design team and the sets confirm to the color pie, so no breaks.

[BeneTleilax]

Post-Eldraine, post Ravenform I'm not entirely sure what still constitutes a break, other than white getting CA.

[Krishnath]

Post-Eldraine, post Ravenform I'm not entirely sure what still constitutes a break, other than white getting CA.

Ravenform is a break, it was made without input from MaRo and the council of colors.

[Wallycaine]

Post-Eldraine, post Ravenform I'm not entirely sure what still constitutes a break, other than white getting CA.

Ravenform is a break, it was made without input from MaRo and the council of colors.

That's not quite correct. Maro has said that he personally would not have chosen to have it affect artifacts
but shied away from calling it a break. He has confirmed that it's not precedent, but again, not considered it a break. It likely is considered a bend, similar to Kenrith's Transformation. The Council of colors only decides whether or not something is allowed, not the power level of the final card. It likely was a situation where it was decided that it wasn't a break, and Play Design felt it was important that blue have an additional answer to resolved artifacts in the current standard.

[Krishnath]

If it's a bend, it's a major one. But thank you for correcting me. @Wallycaine

[Bearscape]

I'm not happy these will be legal in Legacy and Vintage - I expect to see a division in the community splitting into with and without UB (at least we got a nice catch-all name to make this easy). Even at a low powerlevel, with this many cards it's inevitable these sets will have an effect on those formats.

At the least, LotR and WH40k (kinda) fit the aesthetic of magic, although we've also already seen with they have no problem collaborating with IPs that are terrible fits like TWD.

[Sporegorger_Dragon]

At the least, LotR and WH40k (kinda) fit the aesthetic of magic, although we've also already seen with they have no problem collaborating with IPs that are terrible fits like TWD.

Marvel collaboration, anyone?

Hmm, WH40k is not what you'd call mainstream even in fandom, and TWD and LotR seemed to have already passed their heyday.

We have to think of something that was once relevant but now its star is fading and it's desperate to crawl back into the spotlight.

Game of Thrones? Alien franchise? Justice League? Jurassic Park? Ghostbusters?

Wait, I got it!

The Dune franchise!

[Krishnath]

At the least, LotR and WH40k (kinda) fit the aesthetic of magic, although we've also already seen with they have no problem collaborating with IPs that are terrible fits like TWD.

Marvel collaboration, anyone?

Hmm, WH40k is not what you'd call mainstream even in fandom, and TWD and LotR seemed to have already passed their heyday.

We have to think of something that was once relevant but now its star is fading and it's desperate to crawl back into the spotlight.

Game of Thrones? Alien franchise? Justice League? Jurassic Park? Ghostbusters?

Wait, I got it!

The Dune franchise!

Marvel: Could happen, magic is a big part of the Marvel comics and the MCU. So it wouldn't be a terrible fit.

Game of Thrones: Would work well, very well.

Alien Franchise: Currently in the process of being integrated into the Marvel comics, they just announced the first Alien comic under the Marvel banner, so if a deal got made with Disney to use some of their IP for MTG, Aliens would seem a likely component. It would also be perfect for parasitic mechanics. :laugh:

Justice League, well, DC/Warner has no idea what they are doing to begin with, so sure. Heck, the various Lantern Corps alone could be worthy of an entire set. That said, I'd rather not. DC outside of Batman and Green Lantern is terribly unoriginal, and when someone finally has a good idea, they kill it within a year or two or make it as generic as the rest of it.

Jurassic Park: Well, MTG players love Dinosaurs, so...

Ghostbusters: I could see this happening, but they are doing their own thing on Youtube at the moment (uploading episodes of the 80's animated series and Extreme Ghostbusters every week. 80's series on Saturdays and Extreme on Wednesdays).

Dune: Well, the effects of the spice is basically magic anyway...

Basically, if WotC and Disney make a deal (possibly for Disney to make MTG related movies and WotC to make Disney related product), I could see Marvel and Alien happening, otherwise it would be unlikely. Of the ones you suggested, Game of Thrones have the highest chance of happening, and I wouldn't give it more than a 50/50 shot. But then again, I had never expected GW to make a deal with WotC either, so anything is possible at this point.

[Sporegorger_Dragon]

It would also be perfect for parasitic mechanics. :laugh:

I'll parasitize your mechanic

If I could downvote this I would.

It just occurred to me that Star Wars also qualifies; it already has a TCG, and Disney's pretty desperate to keep Star Wars the Big Thing.

[Krishnath]

It would also be perfect for parasitic mechanics. :laugh:

I'll parasitize your mechanic

If I could downvote this I would.

It just occurred to me that Star Wars also qualifies; it already has a TCG, and Disney's pretty desperate to keep Star Wars the Big Thing.

Star Wars is and always has been the most successful SF franchise in media. Even when it goes bad for Star Wars, it still makes bank. And it goes, really, really, well for Star Wars.

[dangerousdice]

I wonder how they will represent sauron and the one ring!

[Krishnath]

I wonder how they will represent sauron and the one ring!

The One Ring will be an equipment that grants unblockability, it'll be legendary.

As for Sauron, probably either a spirit, or if you follow the old lore, an Angel (Maiar are angels, and Sauron is a fallen Maiar, his master would be a god.)

[SecretInfiltrator]

I don't want to equip Mjolinir to Voldemort.

I want to equip Toralf's Hammer to Phylactery Lich instead. ; )

[CommanderMaster999]

Honestly I would do scooby doo for "clue" tokens and maybe the monsters as if real or DFC (DFC as in side the monster side b as in "let's see who this monster really is.")

[The N82O Molecule]

As for Sauron, probably either a spirit, or if you follow the old lore, an Angel (Maiar are angels, and Sauron is a fallen Maiar, his master would be a god.)

no Evil Eye of Orms-by-Gore lol

as someone who has followed all the card attempts by wizards to branch out of magic. . .kaijudo. . .transformers etc this is the gross next logical step, like someone walked into the office and said. . .we been looking at this all wrong. paint the world with mtg instead of trying to fit in other gaps or something like that.

however, I don't think this opens a vein of profits sadly, I support un cards but that's fringe, and these are fringe on un cards. . I mean imo. I support Maro so I support un cards. but here I think things will be a one step out of place. I bought the walking dead cards, cause when I see money on the ground. . .but I don't like what it did.

oh I say no profits cause where I get lost is that how is this gonna pull into magic, it seems like this is a "hey you like magic how about more magic in different places you didn't have it before" and im like "I have magic cards all over the place like cockroaches man im trying to trim that up even. . .I still don't know how to handle my un cards binder"

I still find sanctity in opening a plain old normal set booster pack. . .imma hold onto that in this hurricane of magic cards

[Krishnath]

as someone who has followed all the card attempts by wizards to branch out of magic. . .kaijudo. . .transformers etc this is the gross next logical step, like someone walked into the office and said. . .we been looking at this all wrong. paint the world with mtg instead of trying to fit in other gaps or something like that.

WotC created the Vampire: The Masquerade CCG, and Published and partly developed the Pokemon CCG for a long time. They also created and developed the first Star Wars TCG. They know what they are doing.