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Post by WizardMN » 4 years ago

Krishnath wrote:
4 years ago
SecretInfiltrator wrote:
4 years ago
Maybe likening it to a p/t setting Aura (Kenrith's Transformation or Gigantiform) would help there.

I have a hunch that the aspects confusing now to players will be more easily understood once they start playng with the cards, but also that there will be a lot of unexpected evaluations going to occur once you actually have to think about a game state and your game plan (mutate now to force a discard and effective haste or play next turn for the additional creature I'll have on board?) rather than the simple resolution of the spell.
I agree with this completely. It looks complex, but it really isn't. The ability counters are a more complex mechanic because it is literally harder to track unless you have access to the punch-out counters.
To be fair, the complexity isn't with how Mutate works with itself or even with the cards in the set. Your summary is pretty basic, but what happens when a Vehicle is involved? What happens when you copy it? What happens if a clone is part of the pile already vs making the pile a copy of something else later on? What happens when you put your Commander in the pile? And then, when Leadership Vacuum is cast on that pile? What happens when you exile the creature with Cloudshift? What happens when you have a flip card in the pile and it flips? What about a transform card? Even worse, what about one of the non-human Transform walkers?

Now, we know all these answers so it isn't like we just throw our hands up, but these are a fair number of odd situations that can occur with this mechanic that enough people aren't going to just know when they are playing. They will have to ask or look things up.

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Post by Krishnath » 4 years ago

WizardMN wrote:
4 years ago
Krishnath wrote:
4 years ago
SecretInfiltrator wrote:
4 years ago
Maybe likening it to a p/t setting Aura (Kenrith's Transformation or Gigantiform) would help there.

I have a hunch that the aspects confusing now to players will be more easily understood once they start playng with the cards, but also that there will be a lot of unexpected evaluations going to occur once you actually have to think about a game state and your game plan (mutate now to force a discard and effective haste or play next turn for the additional creature I'll have on board?) rather than the simple resolution of the spell.
I agree with this completely. It looks complex, but it really isn't. The ability counters are a more complex mechanic because it is literally harder to track unless you have access to the punch-out counters.
To be fair, the complexity isn't with how Mutate works with itself or even with the cards in the set. Your summary is pretty basic, but what happens when a Vehicle is involved? What happens when you copy it? What happens if a clone is part of the pile already vs making the pile a copy of something else later on? What happens when you put your Commander in the pile? And then, when Leadership Vacuum is cast on that pile? What happens when you exile the creature with Cloudshift? What happens when you have a flip card in the pile and it flips? What about a transform card? Even worse, what about one of the non-human Transform walkers?

Now, we know all these answers so it isn't like we just throw our hands up, but these are a fair number of odd situations that can occur with this mechanic that enough people aren't going to just know when they are playing. They will have to ask or look things up.
#1: If the vehicle is on the top, it gains all the abilities of the creatures attached to it. Which usually doesn't do anything unless it is crewed. If the vehicle is somewhere in the stack below the top spot, the creature gains the abilities of the vehicle.

#2: The copy gains all the abilities the stack had when it was copied.

#3: Depends on the type of clone, if it just a straight up clone and similar spells, it has the abilities of the card it copied. So depending on where it is in the stack it is it is either a copy of that creature, with the abilities of all the attached creatures, or it grants the abilities of the card it copied if it is in the stack. If it is a copy of something like a Vesuvan Doppelganger, I assume it follows the rules of that card since its ability overwrites what the card is whenever it triggers.

#4: It the commander is on the top, it functions as normal, except it also has the abilities of every creature attached to it. If it is in the stack, it grants its abilities to the top creature. I am not sure how commander damage would work in that case, but I am guessing that it doesn't grant the "commanderness" to the creature it is attached to. Regardless, once the stack dies, you chose if it goes to your graveyard or the command zone.

#5: IThe commander card goes to the command zone, if it is the top card of the stack, the other cards go to the graveyard. I do believe that if it is in the stack the remaining cards stay on the battlefield and the mutated creature loses the abilities of the commander card. However, although Leadership Vacuum doesn't target and therefore works in this case, targeted cards do not. You can only target the top card of a stack, the entire stack is considered *one* creature, just like with meld.

#6: The entire stack is exiled and then returned. Functions just like a melded creature.

#7: Not certain, but I believe that the stack loses the abilities on the pre-flipped textbox, and gains the ones from the other. It'll be interesting to find out.

#8: Again I am not certain, but logically it would lose the abilities (and possibly characteristics) from the front side of the card and gain those on the back.

#9: If the planeswalker is the top card of the stack, you end up with a planeswalker with a lot of abilities it couldn't use unless it becomes a creature. If the planeswalker is in the stack, you end up with a creature with planeswalker abilities, which it can use one of during each of your turns.

Seriously, it's not that difficult if one just thinks about it logically. >.<
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Post by slimytrout » 4 years ago

For anyone interested, here's a link to an AMA that Eli Shiffrin did about the Ikoria Rules:

I don't really have a dog in this fight - I think if you understand meld for the most part you can understand mutate, even if there are weird corner cases - but for the record some of the answers in Krishnath's post above are not correct, like regarding Leadership Vacuum or, even more wrong, regarding the transform 'walkers.

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Post by WizardMN » 4 years ago

Krishnath wrote:
4 years ago
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WizardMN wrote:
4 years ago
Krishnath wrote:
4 years ago


I agree with this completely. It looks complex, but it really isn't. The ability counters are a more complex mechanic because it is literally harder to track unless you have access to the punch-out counters.
To be fair, the complexity isn't with how Mutate works with itself or even with the cards in the set. Your summary is pretty basic, but what happens when a Vehicle is involved? What happens when you copy it? What happens if a clone is part of the pile already vs making the pile a copy of something else later on? What happens when you put your Commander in the pile? And then, when Leadership Vacuum is cast on that pile? What happens when you exile the creature with Cloudshift? What happens when you have a flip card in the pile and it flips? What about a transform card? Even worse, what about one of the non-human Transform walkers?

Now, we know all these answers so it isn't like we just throw our hands up, but these are a fair number of odd situations that can occur with this mechanic that enough people aren't going to just know when they are playing. They will have to ask or look things up.
Well, I didn't really expect an answer to the situations; they were there as examples. The fact that you got some wrong, or didn't know the answer sort of proves my point though. I am not sure I would expect little Timmy to know the ones you did get right either. But, since you offered, I will respond to each one :)
#1: If the vehicle is on the top, it gains all the abilities of the creatures attached to it. Which usually doesn't do anything unless it is crewed. If the vehicle is somewhere in the stack below the top spot, the creature gains the abilities of the vehicle.
Does it though? Why would it still have the abilities of the vehicle if the vehicle only has abilities while a creature? Wouldn't the animation effect wear off? This is the one I am still questioning. I have heard that it still gets the abilities from when it was a creature, but the answer on Reddit with Sarkhan suggests that isn't the case. And this is for the Vehicle being in the middle and not on top. You are right about it being on top.

To be clear, we know it has Crew either way; the question is whether it has the abilities it was granted while a creature. Vehicles may not be the best example for this. Celestial Colonnade is probably better.
#2: The copy gains all the abilities the stack had when it was copied.
Correct :)
#3: Depends on the type of clone, if it just a straight up clone and similar spells, it has the abilities of the card it copied. So depending on where it is in the stack it is it is either a copy of that creature, with the abilities of all the attached creatures, or it grants the abilities of the card it copied if it is in the stack. If it is a copy of something like a Vesuvan Doppelganger, I assume it follows the rules of that card since its ability overwrites what the card is whenever it triggers.
My question for this part was twofold: if the clone is what is being mutated on, it is that plus whatever the new thing is. So, a Clone copying a Raging Goblin that got Mutated now has a Raging Goblin as part of the pile plus the mutation. If the pile exists and something like Mirrorweave is cast, the pile is simply the copy of whatever was targeted. This might be what you meant; I just wasn't sure.
#4: It the commander is on the top, it functions as normal, except it also has the abilities of every creature attached to it. If it is in the stack, it grants its abilities to the top creature. I am not sure how commander damage would work in that case, but I am guessing that it doesn't grant the "commanderness" to the creature it is attached to. Regardless, once the stack dies, you chose if it goes to your graveyard or the command zone.
It is still your commander as long as your commander is in the pile. And you are correct that you still choose where the individual commander card goes.
#5: IThe commander card goes to the command zone, if it is the top card of the stack, the other cards go to the graveyard. I do believe that if it is in the stack the remaining cards stay on the battlefield and the mutated creature loses the abilities of the commander card. However, although Leadership Vacuum doesn't target and therefore works in this case, targeted cards do not. You can only target the top card of a stack, the entire stack is considered *one* creature, just like with meld.
Rather than give the answer, I would be curious to why you think Leadership Vacuum would cause anything to go to the graveyard? And yes, it is like Meld and, just like meld, the entire pile *is* your commander. So, even if Vacuum did target, it would still work.
#6: The entire stack is exiled and then returned. Functions just like a melded creature.
Correct :) The comparisons to Meld are very apt. They will break apart and return separated just like Meld.
#7: Not certain, but I believe that the stack loses the abilities on the pre-flipped textbox, and gains the ones from the other. It'll be interesting to find out.
Yes, that is correct. Any permanent can be flipped; most just aren't. So, when it is flipped, any component that has flipped text uses that; everything else uses the normal text.
#8: Again I am not certain, but logically it would lose the abilities (and possibly characteristics) from the front side of the card and gain those on the back.
That is correct for anything in the pile that can transform. Same as Flip basically.
#9: If the planeswalker is the top card of the stack, you end up with a planeswalker with a lot of abilities it couldn't use unless it becomes a creature. If the planeswalker is in the stack, you end up with a creature with planeswalker abilities, which it can use one of during each of your turns.
No. Of all the answers you've given, this is the most wrong. Though I think this is mostly because you read it wrong. I am talking about Nissa, Vastwood Seer. What happens when the ability to transform her triggers when she is part of the pile? The location in the pile is irrelevant.
Seriously, it's not that difficult if one just thinks about it logically. >.<
Of the answers you gave, 4 are wrong, or have wrong parts to them. And a couple others you weren't certain but you guessed correctly. To be clear, I am not trying to call you out, but you seem like a pretty intelligent person and are attempting to go, at least a little, on intuition. Which is fine, but that is the point I am trying to make. Doing that creates situations where people are simply wrong.

Now, we can use this tangent as a means of education, and your thoughts on the other 5 points are, seemingly, spot on (I do think the clone one got kind of muddied there but whatever). And I am not saying people won't eventually know. But people *still* question how trample and deathtouch work and people still question how Mindslaver and Commander replacement effect works. This is not something that most players are going to easily be able to intuit during gameplay when situations arise.

Perhaps I am wrong and I am simply not giving people enough credit. So we shall see.

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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

Do we know how twinning staff interacts with spelltwine?

Do you get all the copies and then can't cast them without paying their mana costs (because spelltwine instructs you to cast them after you copy them?)

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Post by WizardMN » 4 years ago

pokken wrote:
4 years ago
Do we know how twinning staff interacts with spelltwine?

Do you get all the copies and then can't cast them without paying their mana costs (because spelltwine instructs you to cast them after you copy them?)
There is no interaction. Spelltwine doesn't have you copy spells; it has you copy cards. And Twinning Staff doesn't care about cards being copied.

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Post by user_938036 » 4 years ago

WizardMN wrote:
4 years ago
To be fair, the complexity isn't with how Mutate works with itself or even with the cards in the set. Your summary is pretty basic, but what happens when a Vehicle is involved? What happens when you copy it? What happens if a clone is part of the pile already vs making the pile a copy of something else later on? What happens when you put your Commander in the pile? And then, when Leadership Vacuum is cast on that pile? What happens when you exile the creature with Cloudshift? What happens when you have a flip card in the pile and it flips? What about a transform card? Even worse, what about one of the non-human Transform walkers?

Now, we know all these answers so it isn't like we just throw our hands up, but these are a fair number of odd situations that can occur with this mechanic that enough people aren't going to just know when they are playing. They will have to ask or look things up.
Since someone answered with incorrect and unsure answers I'd like to clarify.
#1(what happens when a Vehicle is involved?) If the vehicle is on top then the creature will stop being a creature at end of turn but keep all of the other abilities at all times. If the vehicle isn't on top then it doesn't really do anything different from a normal creature. An important part to note about Vehicles since I saw it mentioned, Vehicles always have all of the abilities in their text box, there isn't a single vehicle that 'gains' abilities when it becomes a creature. The mutated creature has all the abilities of all the cards in the stack. This is the same if you mutate an animated noncreature permanent such as a mana land or a noncreature artifact. However, the Gods of Theros are a little different because of how they stop being creatures. Regardless of where in the stack a God is their ability to make them not creatures if lacking devotion will function meaning you can easily have a permanent without any card types.

#2(What happens when you copy it?) You get the entire stack at that time, it has all the abilities of the stack and the rest of the characteristics of the top of the stack.

#3(What happens if a clone is part of the pile already vs making the pile a copy of something else later on?) If an actual clone is part of the pile its more or less irrleavent because the clone copied something so that something is part of the pile not a clone, If we mean a temporary clone then its place in the pile matters for the duration of the temporary clone then it doesn't matter because its new 'form' will overwrite the entire pile. Protean Thaumaturge is currently a Grizzley Bear and gets put on ({top} it stays a Grizzley Bear with the Thaumaturge's ability and whatever was merged on)/({Bottom} it is now whatever was mutated on top with the ThaumaturBear's ability) when you use the Thaumaturge's ability it overwrites the entire mutation with the new form.

#4(What happens when you put your Commander in the pile?) The pile is your commander regardless of where it is in the pile.

#5(And then, when Leadership Vacuum is cast on that pile?) The entire pile goes to the command zone. You can only cast commanders from the command zone.

#6(What happens when you exile the creature with Cloudshift?) The entire pile leaves and each individual part returns.

#7&8(What happens when you have a flip card in the pile and it flips? What about a transform card?) If you satisfy the mutations Flip/Transform conditions then all parts of the pile that can flip/transform do so and you use the new characteristics in the same portion of the pile; either just the text box or their entire card.

#9(Even worse, what about one of the non-human Transform walkers?) Edit for correctness: Only the cards capable of transforming will return from exile transformed. Supplementary answer, if you mutate on to a planeswalker, such as Sarkhan, the creature can use loyalty abilities. Loyalty abilities have never been limited to Planeswalkers; Experiment Kraj has been stealing powers since day one. So you are still limited to any time you could cast a sorcery and once per turn.
Last edited by user_938036 4 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by WizardMN » 4 years ago

While I already provided a response above, another response for this is also welcome so thanks. I did alter the first question to use a creatureland instead of a Vehicle because, as you mentioned, vehicles aren't the greatest examples for something wearing off. In the case of a land, the mutation loses the abilities the animation effect granted if the land isn't on top. I went back and re-read the AMA and a Twitter answer and I think my initial confusion was because of tying Vehicles and Creaturelands together when they shouldn't be.

But, I wanted to correct you on this one:
user_938036 wrote:
4 years ago
#9(Even worse, what about one of the non-human Transform walkers?) This is easier, it's the same as if it Cloudshift except the cards returning have the command "return transformed" though most will ignore this effect since they can't transform and will return normal.
Anything exiled this way that can't transform will remain in exile. It can already happen when something clones a Transform Walker: the clone can't return so stays in exile.

This was the point of this exercise though. The number of weird corner cases are plentiful and there are even more on Eli's Twitter so not all are completely intuitive without more than a base level of understanding of the rules (or memorization of all the different answers given).

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Post by Wallycaine » 4 years ago

WizardMN wrote:
4 years ago
This was the point of this exercise though. The number of weird corner cases are plentiful and there are even more on Eli's Twitter so not all are completely intuitive without more than a base level of understanding of the rules (or memorization of all the different answers given).
The flip side is how many of those interactions will actually come up. For example, little Tammy playing with Mutate in standard doesn't have to give a crap about how it interacts with Creature Lands, or what happens when a double-faced walker is involved. And since it only can apply to cards you own, the complexity is, to a certain degree, opt in. If you want to play your mutate cards with Sarkhan, then you know ahead of time that interaction can come up, and can double check that you understand it first. If you're going to play your mutate cards with morph creatures, then yeah, you might want to know how that works, but you don't have to worry about it organically popping up in game because you stole a creature.

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Post by WizardMN » 4 years ago

To be honest, and as I already stated, I don't feel knowing these interactions for Standard really matters. As you rightly pointed out, there are very few of these things that will pop up there. What does matter is Commander (and other "casual" games). These things absolutely will come up and the fact that people are already asking about them before the set is released means they know they will come up. And yes, that is what people are doing; they are working to get an understanding now which is great.

However, this has basically been an extremely long winded discussion (which I have thoroughly enjoyed by the way) to simply restate my initial statement: Mutate is complex. That's it. Krishnath suggested it wasn't and then didn't know how 4 of the 9 scenarios worked (sorry Krishnath). I have simply attempted to defend my position of this mechanic being complex to counter Krishnath's statement of "It looks complex, but it really isn't". It is very complex. Understanding every corner case and nuance to it is great as a player, and I would encourage everyone to do the groundwork to attain that understanding, but that doesn't make it not complex.

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Post by Wallycaine » 4 years ago

WizardMN wrote:
4 years ago
To be honest, and as I already stated, I don't feel knowing these interactions for Standard really matters. As you rightly pointed out, there are very few of these things that will pop up there. What does matter is Commander (and other "casual" games). These things absolutely will come up and the fact that people are already asking about them before the set is released means they know they will come up. And yes, that is what people are doing; they are working to get an understanding now which is great.

However, this has basically been an extremely long winded discussion (which I have thoroughly enjoyed by the way) to simply restate my initial statement: Mutate is complex. That's it. Krishnath suggested it wasn't and then didn't know how 4 of the 9 scenarios worked (sorry Krishnath). I have simply attempted to defend my position of this mechanic being complex to counter Krishnath's statement of "It looks complex, but it really isn't". It is very complex. Understanding every corner case and nuance to it is great as a player, and I would encourage everyone to do the groundwork to attain that understanding, but that doesn't make it not complex.
And to be clear, the point I'm trying to make is that, given the "creature you own" clause, there's no way for these interactions to pop up without someone specifically putting them in the same deck. Hence why I was saying the complexity is "opt in".

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Post by WizardMN » 4 years ago

Well, to be fair, Leadership Vacuum can really only happen due to cards in other decks. And someone asked about what happens to auras on a mutated created when Oubliette leaves. Again, I realize these are fairly uncommon scenarios but to go with the mechanic as being entirely "opt-in" misses a lot of the different, and fun, things people like to do.

But, I think we have covered what we need to cover. It is complex, which you seem to agree with. Being something that is opt-in doesn't make it any less complex; it just means the situations are less likely to cause tables to stop playing due to wanting to determine those interactions up front (as you said). It just means a lot more legwork on the part of the deck builder. And their opponents to trust them on the interactions of course.

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Post by SecretInfiltrator » 4 years ago

The aspect nobody seems to look at: Is a complex interaction between mutate and a cycle of mythic rares or between mutate and a single pre-NWO card more of a sign that mutate is complex or that the things it interacts with in the examples are complex? That's why "opt-in" complexity as it has been called in this thread is such a weird thing. MtG is a complex game. If it's most complex pieces interact with a new mechanic in a complex fashion, you have to evaluate the level of complexity that is added relative to the complexity that is already there.

That's the context in which I say that mutate is not (all that) complex. It's certainly higher in complexity than cycling or keyword counters though the latter bring their very own set of issues as well.

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Post by The Fluff » 4 years ago

Krishnath wrote:
4 years ago
I don't think mutate is all that complicated.

Let's say you have a Wind Drake on the battlefield.

Current creature: 2/2 with flying.

In your hand, you have a card with mutate, Say a Pouncing Shoreshark, now you have two options, you can either play the card normally, and get an extra creature, or use it's mutate ability. You chose to use the Mutate ability. Now you have two options, either put it on top of the Wind Drake, or below the Wind drake. Let's explore both options:

Option #1: You put the Pouncing Shoreshark *below* the Wind Drake. The resulting creature has the power and toughness of the Wind Drake, but the textboxes of both creatures, making it a 2/2 flying creature with flash (which is irrelevant), and whenever this creature mutates you may return a creature an opponent controls to its owners hand. And since the creature just mutated, you proceed to do so.

Current creature: 2/2 flying, flash, Whenever this creature mutates, you may return target creature an opponent controls to it's owners hand.

Option #2: You put the Pouncing Shoreshark *on top* of the Wind Drake. The resulting creature has the power and toughness of the Pouncing Shoreshark, but the textboxes of both creatures, making it a 4/3 creature with Flash (no longer relevant), Flying, and Whenever this creature mutates, you may return target creature an opponent controls to it's owners hand.

Current creature: 4/3 flying, flash. Whenever this creature mutates, you may return target creature an opponent controls to it's owners hand.
questions. So based on that example... putting the creature with mutate at the bottom causes a "mutation"? So if I put a cubwarden below a fleecemane lion, I put into play two 1/1 cat with lifelink?

question 2: since the fleecemane lion is on top. If my opponent terminate it, only the fleecemane lion is killed or are both creatures killed?
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Post by Wallycaine » 4 years ago

The Fluff wrote:
4 years ago
Krishnath wrote:
4 years ago
I don't think mutate is all that complicated.

Let's say you have a Wind Drake on the battlefield.

Current creature: 2/2 with flying.

In your hand, you have a card with mutate, Say a Pouncing Shoreshark, now you have two options, you can either play the card normally, and get an extra creature, or use it's mutate ability. You chose to use the Mutate ability. Now you have two options, either put it on top of the Wind Drake, or below the Wind drake. Let's explore both options:

Option #1: You put the Pouncing Shoreshark *below* the Wind Drake. The resulting creature has the power and toughness of the Wind Drake, but the textboxes of both creatures, making it a 2/2 flying creature with flash (which is irrelevant), and whenever this creature mutates you may return a creature an opponent controls to its owners hand. And since the creature just mutated, you proceed to do so.

Current creature: 2/2 flying, flash, Whenever this creature mutates, you may return target creature an opponent controls to it's owners hand.

Option #2: You put the Pouncing Shoreshark *on top* of the Wind Drake. The resulting creature has the power and toughness of the Pouncing Shoreshark, but the textboxes of both creatures, making it a 4/3 creature with Flash (no longer relevant), Flying, and Whenever this creature mutates, you may return target creature an opponent controls to it's owners hand.

Current creature: 4/3 flying, flash. Whenever this creature mutates, you may return target creature an opponent controls to it's owners hand.
questions. So based on that example... putting the creature with mutate at the bottom causes a "mutation"? So if I put a cubwarden below a fleecemane lion, I put into play two 1/1 cat with lifelink?

question 2: since the fleecemane lion is on top. If my opponent terminate it, only the fleecemane lion is killed or are both creatures killed?
1) Whenever you mutate a creature, whether you put it on top or bottom, you trigger abilties that care about mutation. Krishnath just forget to include the fact that the mutate ability would trigger in option 2, but it still triggers in that case. So whether you put your Cubwarden above or below the fleecemane (I'd recommend above), it still triggers the mutate ability.

2) When your opponent terminates the fleecemane, all the creatures in the mutation go to the graveyard. They're all one big creature, so they explode like one. The same applies to any other zone change, so if they get bounced or anything else.

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Post by The Fluff » 4 years ago

okay, thanks for the reply. I guess this mechanic is not as good as I thought... getting two for one'd if someone has a removal spell.
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Post by Krishnath » 4 years ago

Wallycaine wrote:
4 years ago
1) Whenever you mutate a creature, whether you put it on top or bottom, you trigger abilties that care about mutation. Krishnath just forget to include the fact that the mutate ability would trigger in option 2, but it still triggers in that case. So whether you put your Cubwarden above or below the fleecemane (I'd recommend above), it still triggers the mutate ability.
Apologies for that, I was rushing a bit due to food being about to be ready.
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Card Slinger J
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Post by Card Slinger J » 4 years ago

I was talking to one of my friends online about the Mutate mechanic from Ikoria as well as the new set in general and he told me that the new mechanic isn't as confusing as people are making it out to be it's just that they need to improve their reading level. He compared it more toward Evolve though I don't really see the similarities between the two. My friend is also starting to think Ikoria was a mistake since the EDH Rules Committee preemptively banned Lutri, the Spellchaser ON SPOIL which is part of the reason why he's slowly losing respect for them.

His reasoning was that a 3 CMC creature that copies a spell on cast isn't overpowered. If it is banworthy then he had about 10 other Commanders worth mentioning. I do get where he's coming from though. Judging by some of the new spoilers I've seen I just find it odd that Wizards of the Coast would start designing cards with Owen Grady (Chris Pratt) from Jurassic World where he's taming a herd of Velociraptors referenced in Forbidden Friendship and the new reprint for Cathartic Reunion in Ikoria. Even the Sharknado reference from Shark Typhoon was out of left field.
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SecretInfiltrator
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Post by SecretInfiltrator » 4 years ago

They reference Disney-versions of fairy tales on Eldraine and The Blob on Innistrad and Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel in Odyssey. Pop culture gets referenced. That's what it does.

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Krishnath
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Post by Krishnath » 4 years ago

SecretInfiltrator wrote:
4 years ago
They reference Disney-versions of fairy tales on Eldraine and The Blob on Innistrad and Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel in Odyssey. Pop culture gets referenced. That's what it does.
Pop culture reference pop culture. It's how it's always been, it's how it will always be. There is a reason why Maro collects references to MTG in other media. It's fun to find such small references.
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Wallycaine
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Post by Wallycaine » 4 years ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
4 years ago
I was talking to one of my friends online about the Mutate mechanic from Ikoria as well as the new set in general and he told me that the new mechanic isn't as confusing as people are making it out to be it's just that they need to improve their reading level. He compared it more toward Evolve though I don't really see the similarities between the two. My friend is also starting to think Ikoria was a mistake since the EDH Rules Committee preemptively banned Lutri, the Spellchaser ON SPOIL which is part of the reason why he's slowly losing respect for them.

His reasoning was that a 3 CMC creature that copies a spell on cast isn't overpowered. If it is banworthy then he had about 10 other Commanders worth mentioning. I do get where he's coming from though. Judging by some of the new spoilers I've seen I just find it odd that Wizards of the Coast would start designing cards with Owen Grady (Chris Pratt) from Jurassic World where he's taming a herd of Velociraptors referenced in Forbidden Friendship and the new reprint for Cathartic Reunion in Ikoria. Even the Sharknado reference from Shark Typhoon was out of left field.
The issue your friend doesn't seem to be getting is that Lutri isn't a commander. He was banned because you can automatically use him as a companion, and thus improve any deck that has red/blue in the color identity.

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