[IKO] Lutri, the Spellchaser
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- CommanderMaster999
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You guys are gonna get so mad at Sheldon
He's not even giving lutri a chance (banned)
He's not even giving lutri a chance (banned)
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Guardman A Dog's Dream of Man
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Understandable. And really I agree 100% with the preemptive ban. But it's a shame since I was really hoping to get to play with a legendary otter. Hopefully there will be more legendary otters in the future. And maybe otter people. And otter tribal. Cute, huggable otter tribal. Also otters are creepy AF (really look it up... or don't... they really don't treat baby seals... uh... well... let's go with well).
It's going over my head as to why this is pre-banned already / bannable at all — can someone help me out? Thank you.
Virtually all EDH decks meet this Companion requirement, so is having a Twincast that nuts?
Virtually all EDH decks meet this Companion requirement, so is having a Twincast that nuts?
B O V I N E
Unlike the other companions, Lutri doesn't have any restrictions so add it to every izzet deck possible, making them 101 card decks.
Banning Lutri, the Spellchaser
We've never banned a card before its street release date, but we feel strongly compelled to do so for Lutri, the Spellchaser. It is a card unlike any other in Magic's history. While we are firm believers in giving cards their opportunity in the format, it's clear that Lutri would be banned almost immediately. It doesn't have an opportunity cost; you don't have to sacrifice a spot in the 100 in order to play it—meaning if you have the card and are playing the right colors, you can simply include it. It becomes a thing we're not fans of, namely a "must play." A big part of this decision is that we don't want players to acquire the card thinking it might remain legal. There was consideration for letting it loose for a quarter with the likely plan to ban it later just in case it was as bad as we thought, because from where we sit, Lutri as a 101st card is intensely problematic. In the end, this is a special case, and we think that the conservative approach is the better option.
This was the reason
- BeneTleilax
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Auto-includes are annoying, particularly at rare. This has no-opportunity cost, and so goes in every blue-red deck that doesn't have a companion. Everyone who could would shill out $20-$40 and their decks would just be strictly better. No deckbuilding, no decision, just "hey, I start at 8 cards now".
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Haven't they thought about this when they designed the card? How can something like that happen in 2020, with all the experience WotC has? Makes them look like amateurs IMO...
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I would ban every companion in commander honestly. 101 card decks with a minicommander are not cool.
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Not A Twincast. A pile of Twincasts outside the game. There is no 1-of limit for cards outside the game.
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Guardman A Dog's Dream of Man
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I know Maro has said several times (and I am going to be paraphrasing heavily) that while they may sometimes put cards that work in other formats in a standard legal set, the number one priority for all standard legal cards is to be standard legal cards. This is why a standard set planeswalker won't have the text "Can be your commander" for example. I am assuming the same philosophy is at work here. It is fine if this is banned in commander because it is meant to be played in standard.Magiqmaster wrote: ↑4 years agoHaven't they thought about this when they designed the card? How can something like that happen in 2020, with all the experience WotC has? Makes them look like amateurs IMO...
Actually more than anything it seems like this card is specifically meant for limited given the build restriction cost.
Companion limits it to one casting at least.FetalTadpole wrote: ↑4 years agoNot A Twincast. A pile of Twincasts outside the game. There is no 1-of limit for cards outside the game.
Edit: thanks to whoever posted Sheldon's comments. Makes total sense now. Ubiquitousness is something to avoid.
B O V I N E
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Krishnath Mechanical Dragon
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Aw, I wanted it in my Riku deck.CommanderMaster999 wrote: ↑4 years agoYou guys are gonna get so mad at Sheldon
He's not even giving lutri a chance (banned)
Oh well, I'll just have to settle for taking 16+ turns in a row instead of 20+
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How the hell would they even police this in non-EDH/Brawl?
- TheMagicWord
- Posts: 83
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Im sure your playgroup would let you use this otter as a commander or in the 99, since it's main brokenness is when its outside of a deck. I guess they couldnt ban a card when it is only NOT in your deck lol
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- Candlemane
- Posts: 123
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So, as many have stated on a few threads already, it's banned because it's not only a free extra card that is very well suited to URx decks and not even choosing to follow a restriction in Commander in relation to deck building, it's that it also has other implications I don't think have yet been discussed. Specifically, adding any recursion just makes it better like Dualcaster mage, except it's extra. It is not limited to be cast once, just once from outside the game. Another point to make is that they can't not do a blanket banned since the ban list for both Commanders and other cards was combined, which would cause other problems.
Frankly, WotC toying with this space is both cool and concerning. I didn't like Brawl as I saw it as trying to encroach on Commander but with them making more money off standard sets. A business they are, but this mechanic also strikes me a bit like that. I don't think they'll be limited to 1-ofs or anything in Standard or what have you, but if Brawl is going and we see these, it might be interesting to see what happens there as a small and probably small meaning test of these since the card pool is not as expansive. If they can be abused there for some reason in the limited pool of cards, then the banning would be overall correct, though I anticipate that with all the creatures spoiled so far as early as this is, this cannot be judged yet.
As far as I'm concerned, this has some quality that is Eminence like, and I'm not fond of those cards much either.
TLDR: Overall I think the ban comes from a place of the card being not a great fit for what EDH / Commander is supposed to be or intended, and I'm fine with the ban.
EDIT: I forgot to mention the interaction problem, either holding something back because it's there, or being unable to do anything to it outside the game. Emblems are like this, but you (usually) have to work to get one. These are free.
Frankly, WotC toying with this space is both cool and concerning. I didn't like Brawl as I saw it as trying to encroach on Commander but with them making more money off standard sets. A business they are, but this mechanic also strikes me a bit like that. I don't think they'll be limited to 1-ofs or anything in Standard or what have you, but if Brawl is going and we see these, it might be interesting to see what happens there as a small and probably small meaning test of these since the card pool is not as expansive. If they can be abused there for some reason in the limited pool of cards, then the banning would be overall correct, though I anticipate that with all the creatures spoiled so far as early as this is, this cannot be judged yet.
As far as I'm concerned, this has some quality that is Eminence like, and I'm not fond of those cards much either.
TLDR: Overall I think the ban comes from a place of the card being not a great fit for what EDH / Commander is supposed to be or intended, and I'm fine with the ban.
EDIT: I forgot to mention the interaction problem, either holding something back because it's there, or being unable to do anything to it outside the game. Emblems are like this, but you (usually) have to work to get one. These are free.
Paper EDH
Tameshi, Reality Architect
Sapling of Colfenor
Feather the Redeemed
Lynde, Cheerful Tormentor
Thalia and Gitrog
Xryis, the Writhing Storm
Tameshi, Reality Architect
Sapling of Colfenor
Feather the Redeemed
Lynde, Cheerful Tormentor
Thalia and Gitrog
Xryis, the Writhing Storm
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Krishnath Mechanical Dragon
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Apparently WotC knew it was likely to get banned in commander, and intended to ban it in Brawl anyway. The card was not made for singleton formats, but rather for Standard. They wanted its effect in Standard, and knew that standard could handle it. But they also knew it would be a problem in singleton formats. They even gave a heads up to the CRC beforehand so they could discuss it internally before the official reveal. As Maro has often said, not every card is for every format.Candlemane wrote: ↑4 years agoTLDR: Overall I think the ban comes from a place of the card being not a great fit for what EDH / Commander is supposed to be or intended, and I'm fine with the ban.
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
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Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
The Commander Legacy Project, Come say hello and give your thoughts.
Like to read? Love books and want to recommend one to your fellow forum users? Go here.