[IKO] Kathril and ability counters

[BeneTleilax]

[RedCheese]

A more versatile Soulflayer, thats really cool.

[BeneTleilax]

Looks like a tracking nightmare, tbh

[ilovesaprolings]

So, if i have all the 11 keywords in the graveyard, i can put all them on himself and also give him 11 +1/1 counters? And if i have another creature, i can give him 22 +1/+1 counters?

[JoeyB11223]

So, if i have all the 11 keywords in the graveyard, i can put all them on himself and also give him 11 +1/1 counters? And if i have another creature, i can give him 22 +1/+1 counters?

I think you can place all counters on itself and give the +1 counters, however to me no matter how many creatures you have out, you can only distribute one of each ability counter, so you'll never get more than 11 +1/+1 counters. I don't know what happens if you have doubling season out say, creatures will get two flying counters etc, so I don't know if the wording of this card counts those and if you gave out 5 ability tokens, which doubles to 10 with season, this gets 10 counters? (well 20 with season ofc)

[ilovesaprolings]

I think you can place all counters on itself and give the +1 counters, however to me no matter how many creatures you have out, you can only distribute one of each ability counter, so you'll never get more than 11 +1/+1 counters. I don't know what happens if you have doubling season out say, creatures will get two flying counters etc, so I don't know if the wording of this card counts those and if you gave out 5 ability tokens, which doubles to 10 with season, this gets 10 counters? (well 20 with season ofc)

Meh, not cool then. Doesn't work with tokens.
The optimal play will always be dump all the counter on him and voltron
I'm sad. it could have been the timmiest card ever

[Krishnath]

Looks like a tracking nightmare, tbh

That is pretty appropriate considering its creature type.

[BeneTleilax]

Glad someone caught my pun. But seriously, seems like one of the more annoying voltron commanders if you can set him up. If you can set up your graveyard right, yay, you can kill someone with hasty evasive commander damage. If you don't, he eats removal and you just look stupid.

[Krishnath]

Glad someone caught my pun. But seriously, seems like one of the more annoying voltron commanders if you can set him up. If you can set up your graveyard right, yay, you can kill someone with hasty evasive commander damage. If you don't, he eats removal and you just look stupid.

That is why you keep protection around to ensure he gets onto the battlefield and sticks around, and the three colors he is in excel at that.

[Max Rebo]

Interesting,... haste is not on the list.

[BeneTleilax]

Interesting,... haste is not on the list.

Huh, I just skimmed the soup and assumed it was. It's better designed than I thought then

[Wallycaine]

Interesting,... haste is not on the list.

Huh, I just skimmed the soup and assumed it was. It's better designed than I thought then

Going over the list, all the abilities are in color pie for those colors. And considering some of the abilities double up (first strike and double strike, reach and flying), there's some incentive to make sure you have other creatures to hand those abilities out to. There's definitely a bit of thought that went into this guy.

[ilovesaprolings]

There's definitely a bit of thought that went into this guy.

Honestly i don't think so. The optimal choice is to give him all the counters 99% of the same. Shame for a "symbiotic swarm" commander. It just feel too much like Rayami

[Wallycaine]

There's definitely a bit of thought that went into this guy.

Honestly i don't think so. The optimal choice is to give him all the counters 99% of the same. Shame for a "symbiotic swarm" commander. It just feel too much like Rayami

There's literally no point in stacking first strike and double strike, or flying and reach.

[ilovesaprolings]

There's literally no point in stacking first strike and double strike, or flying and reach.

Wow, you give double strike and flying to your commander and first strike and reach to some other dude (if you even have it on the board... why should you try to get a board state with a commander like that). So much wow interesting gameplay! This completely change it, it's not a dumb voltorn anymore!

[Cyberium]

Going over the list, all the abilities are in color pie for those colors. And considering some of the abilities double up (first strike and double strike, reach and flying), there's some incentive to make sure you have other creatures to hand those abilities out to. There's definitely a bit of thought that went into this guy.

Funny how Rayami, First of the Fallen has double strike when none of the creatures in his color has it. Then again, he exiles other people's creatures too, unlike Kathril only does your own GY.

[SecretInfiltrator]

So, if i have all the 11 keywords in the graveyard, i can put all them on himself and also give him 11 +1/1 counters? And if i have another creature, i can give him 22 +1/+1 counters?

I think you can place all counters on itself and give the +1 counters, however to me no matter how many creatures you have out, you can only distribute one of each ability counter, so you'll never get more than 11 +1/+1 counters. I don't know what happens if you have doubling season out say, creatures will get two flying counters etc, so I don't know if the wording of this card counts those and if you gave out 5 ability tokens, which doubles to 10 with season, this gets 10 counters? (well 20 with season ofc)

Oh. Ooooh... Doubling Season doubles the ability counters (redundant since they both go on the same creature, but...) which means you get twice as many +1/+1 counters that get doubled as well. One Doubling Season quadruples the number of +1/+1 counters this gets. @.@

[Melriken]

There's literally no point in stacking first strike and double strike, or flying and reach.

Wow, you give double strike and flying to your commander and first strike and reach to some other dude (if you even have it on the board... why should you try to get a board state with a commander like that). So much wow interesting gameplay! This completely change it, it's not a dumb voltorn anymore!

Or you put all the counters on Skullbriar, the Walking Grave…

or you put all the counters on [any random creatures] and then sacrifice Kathril and use Reyhan, Last of the Abzan to save his +1/+1 counters then cast Kathril again... and again... and again... (Myth unbound, Mirage Mirror, and Food Chain can help with this)

It isn't that Kathril is ONLY a Voltron commander, just that Voltron is his most obvious use (and will be his most common).

[motleyslayer]

This is gonna be a nightmare to track the counters but it's a cool card. I might build a commander deck around it

[theMarc]

Maro said there were 13 different kinds of counters in Ikoria, right? Adding loyalty counters to the ones listed here gives us all 13.

[Arkmer]

When this thing EtBs do you get to know what they are targeting before you respond to the trigger or do they choose on resolution? The wording is "put" so I'm unsure. I think it's respond with no knowledge?

[CalebLost]

Maro said there were 13 different kinds of counters in Ikoria, right? Adding loyalty counters to the ones listed here gives us all 13.

Maro talked about the standard set with that tease (in fact he named there is a card with a specific type of counters by itself), this card is from the C20 decks. Looking at the punch card for the counters in the boosters Indestructible it's not there

[theMarc]

When this thing EtBs do you get to know what they are targeting before you respond to the trigger or do they choose on resolution? The wording is "put" so I'm unsure. I think it's respond with no knowledge?

It doesn't target, so the controller doesn't choose until the ability resolves. If someone kills it, or any other creature, in response, the controller can simply choose to put the counters on something else.

(The word "put" has no bearing on how this resolves. You'd "put" the counters regardless of if it targeted or not.)

Maro said there were 13 different kinds of counters in Ikoria, right? Adding loyalty counters to the ones listed here gives us all 13.

Maro talked about the standard set with that tease (in fact he named there is a card with a specific type of counters by itself), this card is from the C20 decks. Looking at the punch card for the counters in the boosters Indestructible it's not there

13 was the number he named, right? I'm remembering that correctly? So if we're not getting indestructible counters, then it would have to be something generic, like charge counters, that wouldn't have to be on the punch cards.