Ikoria teasers

[CommanderMaster999]

(I apologize in advanced if this isn't the right thread area)

Mark felt bad for a cabin fevers of the cornovrius so he decide to post a whole bunch of teasers



Notes from me

By egg it's the seventh creature card to get this type (ones silver border)

The twelve counters loyalty is excluded

Shark was not a creature type so sharks are getting the proper typing now

And mark Congradulations on getting another squirrel in black border and bringing back the brushwagg type

Edit: oh the go to unofficial spoilers and go to the commander deck one of the cards in the cycle he's talking about is probably in that deck you will see it

[Cyberium]

Is there a reason why shark should be it's own type, instead of just being part of the fish family?

[CommanderMaster999]

Is there a reason why shark should be it's own type, instead of just being part of the fish family?

giant shark can get its proper typing back for one since it's literally on the card

So these creatures need the shark type as well

• Half-Shark, Half-
• Hammerhead Shark
• Battering Krasis
• Shambleshark
• Sharktocrab

[DirkGently]

I posted up some of my sleuthing on likely cycles to complete in the commander subforum, but here's the list:

So far my best guess is that they're going to create a land cycle for one of the other future sight duals. They've already done filter lands and canopy lands - they could do a friendly cycle for canopy duals, but already printing a cycle in horizons, to me, implies that they're too strong for standard - which leaves...

• grove of the burnwillows
• nimbus maze
• river of tears

grove seems like a bit of a stretch given how much trouble it's caused in modern. Making a complete cycle would likely limit their ability to print things that care about enemy lifegain in the future. River of tears would be very cool, but it is a weird cycle since it's asymmetric. So my best guess is a nimbus maze cycle (though I'm rooting for a river of tears cycle tbh).

other (less exciting) possibilities:

refuges
panoramas
obelisks
ultimatums
hatchlings
hedge mages
mimics
witches
storage lands

[Krishnath]

I see they finally found a set where a Brushwagg wouldn't be overpowered.

Seriously though, glad to see it back.

[CalebLost]

a lot of the counters will be Keyword counters (Recycla-bird style) as described in the Ikoria prerelease contents by WPN

Contents:
6 Ikoria: Lair of Behemoths Draft Boosters
1 foil promo-stamped rare or mythic rare from Ikoria: Lair of Behemoths
1 Spindown life counter
1 set of double-sided keyword counters
1 MTG Arena code card*

https://wpn.wizards.com/en/products/iko ... ehemoths-2

being double-sided they will probably be an even number, Maro said 12 without loyalty, we know of foreshadowing and can rule in +1/+1 so max of 10 other counters, let's assume another 2 type of counters on specific cards it can lead to 8 keywords being "countered":
Flying, First Strike, Vigilance, Deathtouch, Lifelink, Menace, Haste, Double Strike are the main evergreen creature keywords and seems to be the correct number

[Atraxian]

It might just be me, but none of those teasers actually make me more interested in the set.
The one that I find most ridiculous is this one:
- "Choose a kind of counter at random"
Really? They are doing crap like this that only really works in a digital environment unless you want people angleshooting each other at tournaments?

[Krishnath]

It might just be me, but none of those teasers actually make me more interested in the set.
The one that I find most ridiculous is this one:
- "Choose a kind of counter at random"
Really? They are doing crap like this that only really works in a digital environment unless you want people angleshooting each other at tournaments?

You can't chose a counter that isn't already in play, so it's really no different from "choose a creature at random", "discard a card at random" or any other such iteration where you are supposed to chose something at random. It's probably a red card to be honest.

[ilovesaprolings]

Flying, First Strike, Vigilance, Deathtouch, Lifelink, Menace, Haste, Double Strike are the main evergreen creature keywords and seems to be the correct number

Take out double strike (too op and outclass first strike) and put in trample and i think we have it.


My toughts on cycles:

• grove of the burnwillows
• nimbus maze
• river of tears

Nope, too op or complicated
refuges eeeew, who's asking for this?
panoramas maybe?
obelisks no, please no
ultimatums ding ding ding
hatchlings too weird and specific
hedge mages again too weird
mimics no changeling or shapeshifters on ikoria, so nope
witches shadowmoor had a lot of really weird cycles right? i guess they will all keep buried and incomplete forever because no one liked them
storage lands maybe #2?

my guess it's on ultimatum. The only exciting thing on this list

[CalebLost]

Flying, First Strike, Vigilance, Deathtouch, Lifelink, Menace, Haste, Double Strike are the main evergreen creature keywords and seems to be the correct number

Take out double strike (too op and outclass first strike) and put in trample and i think we have it.

Yep, I forgot a few things that could be there: Trample, Reach, Hexproof and Indestructible, and Haste as a counter makes little to no sense as it matters just for the first turn or really fringe cases (I'm looking at you Gingerbrute)

[Atraxian]

It might just be me, but none of those teasers actually make me more interested in the set.
The one that I find most ridiculous is this one:
- "Choose a kind of counter at random"
Really? They are doing crap like this that only really works in a digital environment unless you want people angleshooting each other at tournaments?

You can't chose a counter that isn't already in play, so it's really no different from "choose a creature at random", "discard a card at random" or any other such iteration where you are supposed to chose something at random. It's probably a red card to be honest.

Discarding a card at random is pretty straightforward (shuffle your hand, put it on the table face down and have your opponent point to a card), takes less than 10 seconds.

Choosing a target at random is a little more tricky, as it depends on how many possible targets are available.
It becomes a real pain when you have more than 20 (almost everone has a d20) and shuffling them into a pile then pick one is out of the question as you would most likely f. up the boardstate.

Choosing a kind of counter might be the easiest one (if there are a couple) or one of the hardest when you have many kind of counters to keep track of (admittedly it is hard to have more than 3 types of counters on the field at the same time, but with Ikoria we are talking up to 13 to keep track of) Counting also that counters can be made using any kind of object (from glass beads to bread crumbs), it really opens up to misplays by losing track of the kinds of counters or abuse from angle shooters who want to argue about how to decide fairly or want to penalize you for honest mistakes.

This kind of cards have the potential to grind to game to a halt for minutes while both players (or even more for multiplayer games) decide what to do, how to do it properly and argue over the results.

Yet... It is not as bad as having to waut for your opponent repeatedly reshuffling their library because they fetched lands 4 times in a row.

[Krishnath]

It might just be me, but none of those teasers actually make me more interested in the set.
The one that I find most ridiculous is this one:
- "Choose a kind of counter at random"
Really? They are doing crap like this that only really works in a digital environment unless you want people angleshooting each other at tournaments?

You can't chose a counter that isn't already in play, so it's really no different from "choose a creature at random", "discard a card at random" or any other such iteration where you are supposed to chose something at random. It's probably a red card to be honest.

Discarding a card at random is pretty straightforward (shuffle your hand, put it on the table face down and have your opponent point to a card), takes less than 10 seconds.

Choosing a target at random is a little more tricky, as it depends on how many possible targets are available.
It becomes a real pain when you have more than 20 (almost everone has a d20) and shuffling them into a pile then pick one is out of the question as you would most likely f. up the boardstate.

Choosing a kind of counter might be the easiest one (if there are a couple) or one of the hardest when you have many kind of counters to keep track of (admittedly it is hard to have more than 3 types of counters on the field at the same time, but with Ikoria we are talking up to 13 to keep track of) Counting also that counters can be made using any kind of object (from glass beads to bread crumbs), it really opens up to misplays by losing track of the kinds of counters or abuse from angle shooters who want to argue about how to decide fairly or want to penalize you for honest mistakes.

This kind of cards have the potential to grind to game to a halt for minutes while both players (or even more for multiplayer games) decide what to do, how to do it properly and argue over the results.

Yet... It is not as bad as having to waut for your opponent repeatedly reshuffling their library because they fetched lands 4 times in a row.

Except, WotC have had the tech to keep track of multiple types of counters since Amonkhet block, and it's been a little over two years since then. Heck, with the tech they developed then, it's even possible to have +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters in the same set, theoretically speaking of course. We know we are getting punch out counters to use in this set, which makes keeping track of the various counters a breeze. Having seven different ones of them (or more) and choosing one at random isn't particularly hard, comparatively.

[Atraxian]

Not everyone is going to use the official punch cards (to be honest, almost no one is and almost no one will be) and if you take Amonkhet into consideration, things can become even messier as it has Eternalized, Embalmed and Exerted reminders that are not counters at all.

I'm not saying it is impossible, I'm saying it can become needlessly complicated just for the sake of having what is most likely a gimmick card.

[BeneTleilax]

It's gonna be the garbage red enchantment of the set, which won't be a problem because no-one will play it.

[Dunharrow]

I'm betting on a nimbus maze cycle, but ultimatums can be cool

The other possible cycle is allied trap cards.

[Krishnath]

Not everyone is going to use the official punch cards (to be honest, almost no one is and almost no one will be) and if you take Amonkhet into consideration, things can become even messier as it has Eternalized, Embalmed and Exerted reminders that are not counters at all.

I'm not saying it is impossible, I'm saying it can become needlessly complicated just for the sake of having what is most likely a gimmick card.

The whole set is gimmicky, that's the entire point of the set. And it is really up to people if they either use the provided counters or bring enough different ones not to get confused. Personally I am looking forward to the weirdness.

[folding_music]

the cycle we've been crying out for? Wedge Castle Sengirs, of course!

I had sorta convinced myself that Ikoria'd have an Eldrazi problem but it's seeming a lot less likely to me now. the hints and teasers are giving it a sort of Naya/Yavimaya-esque super-bounteous cradle of evolution feel and adding more huge monsters from another dimension would be redundant after all.

Not at all worried about the large variety of counters the set uses! Personally I liked Amonkhet's various counters and reminders and have pressed out over ten of those punch-out token cards. I still use bricks as charge counters to this day, giggle. I like to see that level of complexity on a set's common creatures - all the options you got from exert and embalm and the "-1/-1 counters on another creature you control" effects added up to a way less predictable game, where any stack of commons could outplay any other. If Ikoria's gonna be like that then it's gonna be great.

[CommanderMaster999]

You know you guys are not thinking of a cycle

krosan verge it's literally missing 9 cards and it's not as broken as the fetchlands

Speaking of which another option is the mirage fetchlands which are known as slow fetches ETB tapped but does the same function as the regular fetch lands we only have ally colored

[Krishnath]

You know you guys are not thinking of a cycle

krosan verge it's literally missing 9 cards and it's not as broken as the fetchlands

Speaking of which another option is the mirage fetchlands which are known as slow fetches ETB tapped but does the same function as the regular fetch lands we only have ally colored

Krosan Verge is not a cycle, nor was it ever intended to be.

[CommanderMaster999]

You know you guys are not thinking of a cycle

krosan verge it's literally missing 9 cards and it's not as broken as the fetchlands

Speaking of which another option is the mirage fetchlands which are known as slow fetches ETB tapped but does the same function as the regular fetch lands we only have ally colored

Krosan Verge is not a cycle, nor was it ever intended to be.

Nope it's a cycle

Because of that search for a forest and a plains part and the fetchlands it's ben considered a 9 missing cycle heck thenprofessor from tolarian academy is one of the players requesting the other 9

Besides you forgot horizon canopy was also a 1 of 10 and no other cards but that ended in modern horizons we have the enemy's of that now so now it's 6 out of 10 cycle the same could very well happen with verge

Heck horizon canopy was actually part of the future sight lands cycle but now it's seperated into its own land cycle

[Krishnath]

You know you guys are not thinking of a cycle

krosan verge it's literally missing 9 cards and it's not as broken as the fetchlands

Speaking of which another option is the mirage fetchlands which are known as slow fetches ETB tapped but does the same function as the regular fetch lands we only have ally colored

Krosan Verge is not a cycle, nor was it ever intended to be.

Nope it's a cycle

Because of that search for a forest and a plains part and the fetchlands it's ben considered a 9 missing cycle heck thenprofessor from tolarian academy is one of the players requesting the other 9

Besides you forgot horizon canopy was also a 1 of 10 and no other cards but that ended in modern horizons we have the enemy's of that now so now it's 6 out of 10 cycle the same could very well happen with verge

Heck horizon canopy was actually part of the future sight lands cycle but now it's seperated into its own land cycle

Just because a card can do something that can be replicated with a slightly different configuration does not make it part of a cycle.

[ilovesaprolings]

the hints and teasers are giving it a sort of Naya/Yavimaya-esque super-bounteous cradle of evolution feel and adding more huge monsters from another dimension would be redundant after all.

I think it will be naya meets the simic.

By the way i was enthusiastic about shark at beginning, but now i'm getting a little worried: that means less tribal possibility. The "sea monster" tribe is already a little messy.
Or maybe they will make 2 sea tribes: krakens, leviathan, octopus, serpents VS sharks, whales and fishes XD

[pierreb]

With COVID-19, I wonder if this will hit WotC hard as no PT, no GP, and probably no paper pre-release for Ikoria?

[CommanderMaster999]

With COVID-19, I wonder if this will hit WotC hard as no PT, no GP, and probably no paper pre-release for Ikoria?

Mark said they are letting stores sell the pre-release kits for people to take home
(Even though some stores already do that)

[Krishnath]

With COVID-19, I wonder if this will hit WotC hard as no PT, no GP, and probably no paper pre-release for Ikoria?

My LGS is offering home deliveries on release, so doubtful. WotC makes most of their money from selling product, not from things like the PT and GP, which are primarily a money sink for promotion.