FTV: Fetchlands (plus Chandra spellbook)

[Max Rebo]

The point of the game is to play and have fun, especially in a casual, social format like Commander. People who don't have as much money should be able to play as well, just like how you don't need to spend a lot of money to play chess, bridge, or connect 4, you shouldn't need to spend a lot of money to play Magic.

The thing that gets me is the assumption that you "need" to have the "good,expensive" cards to have fun playing the game. That's just ridiculous and honestly shows a bad deck builder. Me and my group have countless thousands in expensive cards, and we dont play them in our casual group very often. No need to netdeck build with the same best 20 cards. Of course those cards are "better" than what's in our decks but whats the fun in that.
You can still play Magic without those cards or their proxies. Actually it's quite easy, there are thousands of cards to choose from. People apparently just don't want to build fun clever decks. They just want the most efficient powerful decks and that just doesnt matter in a fun casual atmosphere.
In tournaments yes, you need those cards.

[NZB2323]

The point of the game is to play and have fun, especially in a casual, social format like Commander. People who don't have as much money should be able to play as well, just like how you don't need to spend a lot of money to play chess, bridge, or connect 4, you shouldn't need to spend a lot of money to play Magic.

The thing that gets me is the assumption that you "need" to have the "good,expensive" cards to have fun playing the game. That's just ridiculous and honestly shows a bad deck builder. Me and my group have countless thousands in expensive cards, and we dont play them in our casual group very often. No need to netdeck build with the same best 20 cards. Of course those cards are "better" than what's in our decks but whats the fun in that.
You can still play Magic without those cards or their proxies. Actually it's quite easy, there are thousands of cards to choose from. People apparently just don't want to build fun clever decks. They just want the most efficient powerful decks and that just doesnt matter in a fun casual atmosphere.
In tournaments yes, you need those cards.

I'm all about building unique decks. I have a $30 Edric deck that only has commons, a Morophon Kavu deck, and a Tymna/Ravos cleric deck. I have 5 white decks, and instead of buying 5 copies of enlightened tutor, I have 2 copies and 3 proxies. That way in between games my opponents don't have to wait for me to switch cards between decks.

Or let's say that someone shows up with 1 deck that has proxies. Do you tell that person that they can't play? Or what if someone wants to test a competitive deck against your competitive deck before deciding to buy a competitive deck?

[Legend]

Or let's say that someone shows up with 1 deck that has proxies. Do you tell that person that they can't play?

I (and most of the regulars I know) would teach them how to build a deck with what they have, or a budget deck with store stuff, and/or spares from my (our) collection(s). Magic the Gathering is the CCG, not a PCG.
EDIT: Note that I'm in a location in the US where cheap cards are plentiful and easy to get your hands on.

Or what if someone wants to test a competitive deck against your competitive deck before deciding to buy a competitive deck?

I might do that as a courtesy while there's no other opportunities to play.

[CommanderMaster999]

Wow professor is talking in behalf of are complaints about the fetchlands lair and what needs to happen

By the way this particular secret lair is now this one is a dunce cap level now was gonna be $165 since you can get one of each for $235 TCGplayer which is ok but it just went horribly wrong now it's a $400 price what the heck!

Bring the msrp back

[if4ko]

I recently posted about this on Reddit, but this entire thing is a poison pill for our local game stores.

WOTC floats a special product as a thank-you to LGSes. The product, which contains the five most demanded reprints in the game, is a glorified re-issue of From the Vault or Mythic Edition under the Secret Lair name. The mere branding, along with the desperate need for fetchland reprints, inherently suggests to people that it should be print-to-demand, but it's not. And to top it all off, their unofficial "MSRP" from the announcement video is about $170, or about a 25% discount from TCGPlayer. At WOTC's price point, it's less value than War of the Spark: Mythic Edition, FTV: Transform, or even FTV: Lore had when they were released. If you're wondering if this is a "meaningful reprint", consider the fact that Misty Rainforest got bought out a month after Secret Lair: Ultimate Edition was announced.

Because WOTC knowingly and willfully decided not to supply enough SL:UE to remotely satisfy that demand, players, drunk on FOMO started a mad rush to buy it anyway. Since demand for fetches is so high and some people will pay a premium for Seb McKinnon or John Avon art, distributors and local game stores raised prices to meet that demand. They are stuck in a Catch-22: either you sell SL:UE at break-even and miss out on your windfall, or you raise prices above "MSRP" and piss off your customers. Even if they do the former, some customers will still be angry because they're still priced out of the product.

Speaking of customers, some of them who want fetchlands for their Modern or Commander decks, but are lower-information will blame their LGS for "raising prices" when WOTC failed to set a proper market value for them. When they direct their pitchforks at WOTC, they shrug and say it's your local game store's fault. Never mind that WOTC, the manufacturer suggested a retail price for SL:UE, it wasn't an official MSRP. It was an unofficial "expected price of sale". Truly Orwellian stuff we're dealing with, folks. Customers are angry, LGSes have to deal with angry customers, and WOTC laughs all the way to the bank, reaping the windfall and declaring the experiment of LGS-based Secret Lair sales a failure. The players lose, the game stores lose, and with no places to play, Wizards loses.

This is far worse than the Mythic Edition ever was. At least then they weren't trying to %$#% over your LGS too.

[Wallycaine]

Wow professor is talking in behalf of are complaints about the fetchlands lair and what needs to happen

By the way this particular secret lair is now this one is a dunce cap level now was gonna be $165 since you can get one of each for $235 TCGplayer which is ok but it just went horribly wrong now it's a $400 price what the heck!

Bring the msrp back

...You do realize that MSRP wouldn't affect this, right? From the Vault had an MSRP, and that almost never sold for the MSRP.

[NZB2323]

Couldn't Wizards just keep printing more and more SL:UE as a way to help out LGS? I hope they do this and print more C20 decks. Wizards needs to support LGS during this time.

[Atraxian]

Couldn't Wizards just keep printing more and more SL:UE as a way to help out LGS? I hope they do this and print more C20 decks. Wizards needs to support LGS during this time.

They won't.
If they wanted to make SL:UE something affordable for customers and that could actually help a retail they wouldn't have limited the distribution from 2 to 10 depending on size and literally saying that you could get more random fetchlands if you gave them extra money with upcoming secret lairs.

[if4ko]

Couldn't Wizards just keep printing more and more SL:UE as a way to help out LGS? I hope they do this and print more C20 decks. Wizards needs to support LGS during this time.

They could and should, but they won't. WOTC wants to sell packs for CL1/Masters 2.0 and Secret Lair bundles.

[Card Slinger J]

Yep.

Gotta make Papa Hasbro happy.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

Yep.

Gotta make Papa Hasbro happy.

Papa Hasbro is like a stepfather who drinks too much. It scares me, man.

[RainyDay]

Well, I was getting one of these. Thought it was a nice idea to support the LGS. Unfortunately, it looks like my local store will be getting drastically fewer copies than they were expecting, less than 5, I believe. Now, most people who preordered at my store aren't getting one.

[CommanderMaster999]

Well, I was getting one of these. Thought it was a nice idea to support the LGS. Unfortunately, it looks like my local store will be getting drastically fewer copies than they were expecting, less than 5, I believe. Now, most people who preordered at my store aren't getting one.

I wouldn't do that anyway

It's like $400 dollars for the ultimate masters