5 new secrets lairs coming Valentine’s Day (2/14]

[CommanderMaster999]

https://dotesports.com/mtg/news/new-mtg ... ampionship


Seriously? What are they doing they going way to fast with these since it's a colorecters item thing

Anyway I think we may have found are answer to where oubliette might be reprinted like mark said

[Atraxian]

They don't just want your money, they want ALL of it and this won't end...
I'm pretty confident that a few months from now the Secret Lairs will become a "Look, 4 garbage cards and 1 chase reprint! Now give us 60$, you know, we have to inflate our quarterly revenue in some way."

[folding_music]

a valentine's themed Secret Lair set that'd suit me would be all three Kiora planeswalkers and a Breeding Pool. giggle. I love her. the rapidity of these releases feels desperate in some ways, though - it's hard to stay confident in what magic's doing when they're pivoting noticeably towards Arena and treating the real-world cards a bit like box-set and collector fodder.

[CommanderMaster999]

a valentine's themed Secret Lair set that'd suit me would be all three Kiora planeswalkers and a Breeding Pool. giggle. I love her. the rapidity of these releases feels desperate in some ways, though - it's hard to stay confident in what magic's doing when they're pivoting noticeably towards Arena and treating the real-world cards a bit like box-set and collector fodder.

Will you guys ever get this right

Arena will never kill paper magic it's still over popular it's popular among. Kitchen tables and yes game stores not making as much but you can't bond with anybody on the computer besides you guys always never remember arena doesn't support the most important formants of magic which are more popular

Modern
Pioneer
Commander
Legacy
Vintage

(Basicly the eternal formats)

So you can forget about seeing all the cards no longer standard legal in arena

[RxPhantom]

Secret Lairs can f**k off. Support your LGS instead.

[netn10]

Vote with your money.

[ilovesaprolings]

Vote with your money.

No democracy. Whales' vote count more than your.

[Max Rebo]

Since June 8, 2018 (20 months ago) and upcoming...........

Battlebond
M19
Commander 2018
Guilds of Ravnica
Ultimate Masters
Ravnica Allegiance
War of the Spark
Modern Horizons 1
Commander 2019
Throne of Eldraine
7 Secret Lairs
Theros Beyond
Secret Lair Rats
5 Secret Lairs
Unsanctioned
Ikoria
Ikoria Commander
Zendikar Rising
Zendikar Commander 2020
Commander Collection : G
Commander Legends
Commander Legends Commander Deck
...and dont forget the Collectors Edition Booster Packs, Mythic Edition Sets, Game Night, Box Sets, Challenger Decks, Theme Boosters with exclusive cards and I'm sure I'm missing some more stuff.
Bannings on op cards, new formats........

I am a older person with disposable income thats is entrenched in the game since '94 and buys A LOT of Magic cards for a casual kitchen table player, I mean multiple boxes, random packs (We like cracking packs, not buying singles), whale stuff etc from every set.
I can't keep up, my wallet can't keep up.
I will still play, but I walk by the Card section without feeling bad pretty easy these days.

[CalebLost]

Since June 8, 2018 (20 months ago) and upcoming...........

Battlebond
M19
Commander 2018
Guilds of Ravnica
Ultimate Masters
Ravnica Allegiance
War of the Spark
Modern Horizons 1
Commander 2019
Throne of Eldraine
7 Secret Lairs
Theros Beyond
Secret Lair Rats
5 Secret Lairs
Unsanctioned
Ikoria
Ikoria Commander
Zendikar Rising
Zendikar Commander 2020
Commander Collection : G
Commander Legends
Commander Legends Commander Deck
...and dont forget the Collectors Edition Booster Packs, Mythic Edition Sets, Game Night, Box Sets, Challenger Decks, Theme Boosters with exclusive cards and I'm sure I'm missing some more stuff.
Bannings on op cards, new formats........

I am a older person with disposable income thats is entrenched in the game since '94 and buys A LOT of Magic cards for a casual kitchen table player, I mean multiple boxes, random packs (We like cracking packs, not buying singles), whale stuff etc from every set.
I can't keep up, my wallet can't keep up.
I will still play, but I walk by the Card section without feeling bad pretty easy these days.

As Maro says often (and I think the same way): Not everything is for everyone.

I'm (like you) an older player with income that plays since 94 that likes to crack packs, BUT I skipped some products that were not entirely in my taste so that I can focus on something I like more.
I skipped Rat Lair, of the original 7 Lairs I got only 2 (buying the bundle with some friends to split the fees), got only 1 Commander deck for 2019 and 1 Brawl for Eldraine and since the creation of Collector Boosters I switched to them instead of booster boxes for standard sets (I play only brawl/commander and I like collecting/foils so I prefer quality over quantity).

Wotc "over-release" of products is not a bad thing because gives the players more choice, the only downside is that players that were used to just "buy everything that comes out" now need (if they want) to step back a little and focus on the products that they feel more directly marketed for them. As I said I skipped some product in the last year and used the money on something I liked more (as I said, collector boosters are a wonder for me, lots of foil, alternate art, alternate frame and the likes). We just have to adapt and make some choice on what to buy.

[CommanderMaster999]

Since June 8, 2018 (20 months ago) and upcoming...........

Battlebond
M19
Commander 2018
Guilds of Ravnica
Ultimate Masters
Ravnica Allegiance
War of the Spark
Modern Horizons 1
Commander 2019
Throne of Eldraine
7 Secret Lairs
Theros Beyond
Secret Lair Rats
5 Secret Lairs
Unsanctioned
Ikoria
Ikoria Commander
Zendikar Rising
Zendikar Commander 2020
Commander Collection : G
Commander Legends
Commander Legends Commander Deck
...and dont forget the Collectors Edition Booster Packs, Mythic Edition Sets, Game Night, Box Sets, Challenger Decks, Theme Boosters with exclusive cards and I'm sure I'm missing some more stuff.
Bannings on op cards, new formats........

I am a older person with disposable income thats is entrenched in the game since '94 and buys A LOT of Magic cards for a casual kitchen table player, I mean multiple boxes, random packs (We like cracking packs, not buying singles), whale stuff etc from every set.
I can't keep up, my wallet can't keep up.
I will still play, but I walk by the Card section without feeling bad pretty easy these days.

Thats somewhat about where I am with buying stuff

I'm commander so I get the cards that will be great in the format

Sometimes commander decks depending on what's in them

Ofcoarse commander legends that might be the set that convinces me to get a booster box depending on price ofcoarse.

As Maro says often (and I think the same way): Not everything is for everyone.

I'm (like you) an older player with income that plays since 94 that likes to crack packs, BUT I skipped some products that were not entirely in my taste so that I can focus on something I like more.
I skipped Rat Lair, of the original 7 Lairs I got only 2 (buying the bundle with some friends to split the fees), got only 1 Commander deck for 2019 and 1 Brawl for Eldraine and since the creation of Collector Boosters I switched to them instead of booster boxes for standard sets (I play only brawl/commander and I like collecting/foils so I prefer quality over quantity).

Wotc "over-release" of products is not a bad thing because gives the players more choice, the only downside is that players that were used to just "buy everything that comes out" now need (if they want) to step back a little and focus on the products that they feel more directly marketed for them. As I said I skipped some product in the last year and used the money on something I liked more (as I said, collector boosters are a wonder for me, lots of foil, alternate art, alternate frame and the likes). We just have to adapt and make some choice on what to buy.

[Atraxian]

The thing that irks me the most about Secret Lairs is the blatant exploitation of freemium-game levels of microtransaction tactics, especially the "urgency" and "fear of missing out" that is created with the %$#%$#% method "one day only sale and never again".

From a consumer point of view, it would make much more sense to have an open time to order these, but only set dates for shipping throughout the year.
For example: you can order all the previous Secret Lairs if you want, but they will be shipped only once every three months.
This way they have all the time to rake in orders, ger even more orders from people who want to get some extras, manage the printing and the shipping with ease PLUS will give the customers set dates at which they can expect new Secret Lairs and plan their spending accordingly.

Alas, this is WotC we are talking about. One of the worst companies in existence.

[Krishnath]

The thing that irks me the most about Secret Lairs is the blatant exploitation of freemium-game levels of microtransaction tactics, especially the "urgency" and "fear of missing out" that is created with the %$#%$#% method "one day only sale and never again".

From a consumer point of view, it would make much more sense to have an open time to order these, but only set dates for shipping throughout the year.
For example: you can order all the previous Secret Lairs if you want, but they will be shipped only once every three months.
This way they have all the time to rake in orders, ger even more orders from people who want to get some extras, manage the printing and the shipping with ease PLUS will give the customers set dates at which they can expect new Secret Lairs and plan their spending accordingly.

Alas, this is WotC we are talking about. One of the worst companies in existence.

Nope, WotC (and their mother company Hasbro) are not even close to evil, at worst they are kinda neutral. Compare them to actually evil companies such as EA, Monsanto, Nestle, or Exxon and you'll see a massive difference in behavior. Just because a game company does something that you do not like doesn't make them evil. Neither does invoking "they changed it, now it sucks". As companies go, WotC (and Hasbro) are actually fairly benevolent in that they listen to their consumers, are fairly rapid in fixing problems, and learn from their mistakes.

As was mentioned by a previous poster, not every product is for every consumer, and WotC has a *massive* userbase. Personally I've skipped the previous Secret Lairs, but I was tempted by the "Year of the Rat", but ultimately I decided against it because the price wasn't worth what basically boiled down to alternate art for cards I already own. I have skipped other products in the past for various reasons, ranging from economic ones to simply not being interested in a product. If you dislike a product, I humbly suggest you skip it instead of complaining about it for no other reason than to do so. It is counter productive and makes you look bad in the eyes of others.

[Atraxian]

Not outright evil, but WotC is still morally bankrupt and is employing more and more anti consumeristic tactics to line their pockets (or Hasbro's pockets in this case).
The "product is not for me" excuse doesn't absolve them from using crappy marketing tactics push people into impulse-buying an overpriced product.

EDIT: there are plenty of products that aren't for me. Pretty much all sealed products apart from the Commander decks and even that is a may be, but that doesn't mean I can't voice my concerns when I see WotC doing something bad for the consumers, like dropping high price products at random and not give any time to choose if they are worth buying or not.
Or marketing a product as it was the be all end all product for iconic cards in the history of all formats then releasing crap (looking at you iconic masters) then do it AGAIN (looking at you masters25) just to end it by rising the price of the next masters product because "we want to end it with a bang"...
Or the shady things it is doing with Arena...

[Krishnath]

Not outright evil, but WotC is still morally bankrupt and is employing more and more anti consumeristic tactics to line their pockets (or Hasbro's pockets in this case).
The "product is not for me" excuse doesn't absolve them from using crappy marketing tactics push people into impulse-buying an overpriced product.

EDIT: there are plenty of products that aren't for me. Pretty much all sealed products apart from the Commander decks and even that is a may be, but that doesn't mean I can't voice my concerns when I see WotC doing something bad for the consumers, like dropping high price products at random and not give any time to choose if they are worth buying or not.
Or marketing a product as it was the be all end all product for iconic cards in the history of all formats then releasing crap (looking at you iconic masters) then do it AGAIN (looking at you masters25) just to end it by rising the price of the next masters product because "we want to end it with a bang"...
Or the shady things it is doing with Arena...

Sorry, but I don't see it. Producing products for different demographics does not make for a shady company.

Edit: As for the Iconic Masters/Masters25 debacle, by the time WotC realized they fubared with Iconic masters it was to late to do changes for Masters25, which incidentally delivered exactly what was promised, a fun draft environment featuring cards from all black border sets (and Portal3k) printed, including a number of high value reprints. The Iconic masters failure was probably what caused them to discontinue the masters sets completely.

[Serenade]

The inundation of product, like Max notes, is beating me down. There's no time to process. Now I only buy dollar rares (and commons/uncommons) for EDH. Minimal improvements, changes, and testing...otherwise I'm caught up in analysis paralysis of new generals.

[CommanderMaster999]

Today the day

When will we see what's inside these lairs

[pierreb]

Sorry, but I don't see it. Producing products for different demographics does not make for a shady company.

It's not about intended buyers, it's about the method of distribution. It's about the limited time window to create hype and demand. It is also about what could have been. It shows how Wizards wants to responds to a demand for a sealed product with desirable cards while still wanting to retain future sales based on randomized boosters of the same card. (i.e. future master set, modern horizon, etc).

The secret lair goal is clearly to extract money from whales and nothing else.

[Krishnath]

Sorry, but I don't see it. Producing products for different demographics does not make for a shady company.

It's not about intended buyers, it's about the method of distribution. It's about the limited time window to create hype and demand. It is also about what could have been. It shows how Wizards wants to responds to a demand for a sealed product with desirable cards while still wanting to retain future sales based on randomized boosters of the same card. (i.e. future master set, modern horizon, etc).

The secret lair goal is clearly to extract money from whales and nothing else.

I still don't see how making a product available, in a way that nearly everyone has access to, but for a limited time is shady. WotC learned from the "special edition" debacle, made their own site, and ensures that everyone who orders within the timeframe will get the product (thus printing to demand rather than to a limited preset number). Heck, they even allow each individual to order multiples of each. They also tell us, in advance, that it is coming, thus allowing those of us who save up to ensure we have some cash on hand in case the product is something we might be interested in. There is nothing shady about that at all.

[pierreb]

You're just paraphrasing the distribution method Wizards has put in place. You're not explaining or justifying anything. You're not addressing any point made. \_( ' ' )_/

[Krishnath]

You're just paraphrasing the distribution method Wizards has put in place. You're not explaining or justifying anything. You're not addressing any point made. \_( ' ' )_/

What point? That he is complaining just for the sake of complaining rather than coming with valid criticisms? As I mentioned earlier, not every product made by WotC (and their parent company Hasbro) is for every consumer. This product is clearly not meant for him, and as such he is complaining about it not being for him and accusing WotC for being an evil company, when they are anything but that. I then pointed out some actually evil companies for comparison which he completely glossed over and doubled down on his complaining about the Secret Lairs. He has not made a valid point yet, and I doubt he will.

And I reiterate: Not every product is for every player. I have skipped many products over the years because they simply are not for me, nor do I have any interest in them. But complaining just for the sake of complaining doesn't solve anything.

[Dusk]

Secret Lair: Theros Stargazing (5 drops of three cards each, Gods from the original pantheon, all constellation frame foil)
Volume 1: Heliod, God of the Sun, Iroas, God of Victory, Karametra, God of Harvests
Volume 2: Thassa, God of the Sea, Ephara, God of the Polis, Kruphix, God of Horizons
Volume 3: Erebos, God of the Dead, Athreos, God of Passage, Phenax, God of Deception
Volume 4: Purphoros, God of the Forge, Mogis, God of Slaughter, Keranos, God of Storms
Volume 5: Nylea, God of the Hunt, Xenagos, God of Revels, Pharika, God of Affliction

[Arkmer]

If they weren't foil, I'd be in for a single bundle. The arts are great, but I've seen too many people with bent up drops already.

[Max Rebo]

Yup, those are bad. Not even that great of art. Love how you don't even get to see the cards until you wait in the que, then you have only 10 minutes to order. :laughing:

[folding_music]

I feel like I've never actually read Phenax until now :3 what are people's thoughts on Phenax vs Oona as commanders?
the cards look gnice n sparkly but I don't buy this sort of thing.

[RxPhantom]

Yup, those are bad. Not even that great of art. Love how you don't even get to see the cards until you wait in the que, then you have only 10 minutes to order. :laughing:

I'm currently experiencing the queue. How stupid. I just want to see what I refuse to pay for, and I can't even do that. Screw these stupid things.

Now I'm actually looking at the available drops, and I still can't get a good look at most of them. Even though I staunchly oppose these things, it's convenient that none of them have been remotely tempting for the asking price.