Theros Beyond Death preview

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Post by Dusk » 2 months ago

http://epicstream.com/news/JakeVyper/El ... eath-Promo
Have not seen anything about this here, but from the article it does confirm what many have hoped
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Elspeth returns
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Post by Krishnath » 2 months ago

Unlike the author of the article, I doubt Kytheon will return as a planeswalker. I think his place will be taken by a resurrected Elspeth. I do think he'll play a role in the story however.
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Post by Dusk » 2 months ago

I'd prefer Kytheon/Gideon stay dead. He's earned his peace. Him returning would cheapen his sacrifice at the end of War of the Spark.
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Post by The N82O Molecule » 2 months ago

well hide your kids hide your wife

did she get a hair cut but not fix her armor?

looks like her war of the spark picture is spot on

colors then?

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Post by ilovesaprolings » 2 months ago

Dusk wrote:
2 months ago
I'd prefer Kytheon/Gideon stay dead. He's earned his peace. Him returning would cheapen his sacrifice at the end of War of the Spark.
What if Gideon becomes a god?

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Post by SecretInfiltrator » 2 months ago

ilovesaprolings wrote:
2 months ago
What if Gideon becomes a god?
It has been speculated before that Kytheon is a god's bastard (if something like that exists in Theros; I don't recall any confirmation in the cards), and it has equally been speculated that Heliod might see himself gifted a Deicide. With these two things in mind, Gideon could easily be set up to inherit the spot of white God, protector etc. Though based on what we know about how Gods work on Theros that would require a bit of a PR campaign on behalf of the guy who did most of his heroics off-plane. Also a spot in the pantheon can be left abandoned for a while, so there are many possible outcomes.

I personally hope Gideon can retire in peace. He's had his big sacrifice and is reunited with his regulars. His arc came to a neat conclusion and becoming a God seems like an indefinitely prolonged duty that really cheapens his happy end - a lot more than a short cameo to help someone (probably Ajani from what we know so far) to navigate the Underworld and give them his regards, maybe have a chance to say: "No, I'm fine. Take that Elspeth-woman with you, if you must, but I am where I want to be."

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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 2 months ago

Well, the problem with that is, we know they've set up Heliod as the big bad of Theros. Someone has to replace him.

Hoping also for an Aphrodite rg god.

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Post by The Fluff » 2 months ago

so this is why some of the cards in Eld feel like devotion support..
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Post by Judge Irenicus » 2 months ago

The Fluff wrote:
2 months ago
so this is why some of the cards in Eld feel like devotion support..
What if devotion comes for only one color as a returning mechanic?
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Post by NZB2323 » 2 months ago

Judge Irenicus wrote:
2 months ago
The Fluff wrote:
2 months ago
so this is why some of the cards in Eld feel like devotion support..
What if devotion comes for only one color as a returning mechanic?
I think they'll also include multicolored with Ravnica in standard.

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Post by JovialJovian » 2 months ago

The N82O Molecule wrote:
2 months ago
did she get a hair cut but not fix her armor?
Looks like her hair is up, not cut.
hyalopterouslemur wrote:
2 months ago
Well, the problem with that is, we know they've set up Heliod as the big bad of Theros. Someone has to replace him.
I propose the twist that Elspeth herself will be the big villain of the set.

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Post by Sinis » 2 months ago

JovialJovian wrote:
2 months ago
I propose the twist that Elspeth herself will be the big villain of the set.
This is much more than I would expect out of the Wizards storyline team, but, I hope this is true.

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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 2 months ago

JovialJovian wrote:
2 months ago
hyalopterouslemur wrote:
2 months ago
Well, the problem with that is, we know they've set up Heliod as the big bad of Theros. Someone has to replace him.
I propose the twist that Elspeth herself will be the big villain of the set.
Why not both? The big thing about Theros is three main villains, each with their own agenda, and it just happened Elspeth aligned with Heliod. (Bear in mind, Xenagos is right about the gods, it's just that he's basically the Joker, happy to prove his point, no matter who dies in the process.)

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Post by Jace » 2 months ago

Heliod isn't a villain from all perspectives.

In Godsend, Phenax learns of Planeswalkers from his oracle Sarpedon reading Elspeth's mind in his temple. It is implied Heliod learns of Planeswalkers sometime afterward presumably from Phenax, who isn't exactly known for his integrity.

Planeswalkers were a menace in Theros block. Xenagos ascended to godhood, manipulated Purphoros, stole Petros and disrespected Nylea, caused the slaying of Nylea's favorite creature Polukranos, and tricked Elspeth to kill Daxos, another favorite of Nylea, and Heliod's own oracle. An act ultimately blamed on her, another Planeswalker.

Kiora stole Thassa's bident at some point before Elspeth was murdered.

Ashiok created Cacophony and evaded Ephara with Phenax's assistance, and caused plane-wide nightmares.

Dack stole half his gauntlet from a gorgon and a witch on one of the Dakra isles and injured one of Thassa's krakens.

And now Ajani is sowing dissent (perhaps rightfully so) against the gods. At one point in their own temples.

All in all, Planeswalkers getting killed by a planar overlord of Theros seems reasonable given the information they have. I am not surprised to find it hostile toward invaders, same with Amonkhet at this point.

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Post by Cow31337Killer » 2 months ago

I don't know about villains, but I know that this guy right here is the absolute GOAT for Theros block:

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Post by CommanderMaster999 » 1 month ago

Not really a preview but I will say I heard a rumor that new gods are coming (actually that's a safe bet)

But one of those gods is 5-color

It I have no idea where the gentlemen who told me this got his source from

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Post by spacemonaut » 1 month ago

It's guaranteed we'll see gods and enchantment creatures again, and devotion in all colors (with Eldraine helping set up a monocolor Focus). They're all so iconic to Theros's identity that R&D knows they have to do them — not doing it would be like having Return to Ravnica without the guilds, two-color focus, etc.

Since we're visiting the Theros afterlife there's a chance we'll see a short cameo from Gideon. It would be nice to see him to confirm he definitely made it to the Theros afterlife, and to have him confirm he plans to stay. His role is over, but it would be cool to see him play a small part in the story of Elspeth's return. (it's not clear whether Heartwarming Redemption|WAR was a life-flashing-before-his-eyes vision or whether he really made it to another plane's afterlife. I believe and hope it was the latter, and the cosmological implications of that are fascinating.)

@Jace TIL! Thanks for the story. I thought Heliod was just acting because he didn't like having someone around who'd proven capable of killing a god. I mean, I'm sure that's also a large part of it, but I didn't know Xenagos and Elspeth had done all that.

@CommanderMaster999 Sets always have random crack speculation, so I'd take the unsubstantiated five color god prediction with a mountain of salt.


(edit: oops, wrong card link)
Last edited by spacemonaut 1 month ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Odin_ » 1 month ago

@spacemonaut I don't think it would be good idea to give Gideon cameo. Especially if it isn't even sure that he returned to Theros. Picture from Heartwarming Redemption doesn't look like from Underworld. Masks are missing. Yes it could be simply another mistake but this detail I find really important. Also his story is closed and AFAIK there is nothing left opened. Elspeth can be anything: main character (looking for a way out from Underworld), main goal (GW is looking for her) or main antagonist (brainwashed zombie). Another interesting question is if also Kiora comes back. That one can be interesting (although I understand that it is probably only my dream).

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Post by Serpent_Steve » 1 month ago

I am also in the camp that would prefer that Gideon is not mentioned outside of maybe a memorial service held by the Gatewatch near Akros. Although I guess I wouldn't mind having some mention of where he is in the form of a card but he shouldn't take up space in the story. It's Elspeth's tale for this set.

Also would take any mention of a 5-colour god with a mountain of salt mainly as I can't think of a domain that would be 5 colour and if there was why wouldn't anything about it have been mentioned last time we were no Theros?

The betting man on me would suggest that we are getting a God (or Goddess) of love in the colours to replace Xeangos as a deity of that ideal was mentioned by Kruphix last time.

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Post by spacemonaut » 1 month ago

Odin_ wrote:
1 month ago
spacemonaut I don't think it would be good idea to give Gideon cameo. Especially if it isn't even sure that he returned to Theros. Picture from Heartwarming Redemption doesn't look like from Underworld. Masks are missing. Yes it could be simply another mistake but this detail I find really important. Also his story is closed and AFAIK there is nothing left opened. Elspeth can be anything: main character (looking for a way out from Underworld), main goal (GW is looking for her) or main antagonist (brainwashed zombie). Another interesting question is if also Kiora comes back. That one can be interesting (although I understand that it is probably only my dream).
Here's what I speculate: If Heartwarming Redemption's scene is real, Gideon and his friends probably wound up in some equivalent of the Elysian Fields on account of their heroics, and in that place people don't have masks. The masks would be part of a more "regular" part of the underworld, or part of being Returned. Kytheon's Irregulars once protected the city of Akros after all, and we know Gideon's earned a place there ten times over.

I'd enjoy seeing Gideon appearing on a card illustrated by Seb McKinnon (who I think is the only person who could nail the somber mood I'm picturing) where he briefly plays a part in helping Elspeth restore her memories and sense of self and remove her mask, since usually there's almost nothing of you left if you try to Return (as mentioned on March of the Returned|THS). They're both there, he's capable of helping her, but he also makes it clear he's planning to remain in the underworld: his story is over, but hers isn't, and his only intention is getting her back out there. Seeing that would be pretty cathartic, I think.

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Post by worldsaverinc » 1 month ago

I am hoping to see more Hydras especially with Gargos and Thundering Snapper providing some Hydra support on the whole. I wonder if there will be a Hydra-tribal specific land as they seem to make some more of those like Tournament Grounds.

I am also hoping for an Abzan Enchantments matter commander.

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Post by Legend » 1 month ago

I predict heavy graveyard theme. Hopefully, in the form of graveyard order matters.
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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 1 month ago

Legend wrote:
1 month ago
I predict heavy graveyard theme. Hopefully, in the form of graveyard order matters.
They don't do graveyard order matters anymore. I could see a mix of enchantments and monocolor (representing the gods) and graveyard (representing the underworld). What people don't understand about the original Theros, though, is that it was primarily an aura-themed set; mechanics like devotion work better with auras than with (traditional) equipment obviously, and heroic works with auras.

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Post by Legend » 1 month ago

hyalopterouslemur wrote:
1 month ago
...monocolor (representing the gods) and graveyard (representing the underworld). What people don't understand about the original Theros, though, is that it was primarily an aura-themed set; mechanics like devotion work better with auras than with (traditional) equipment obviously, and heroic works with auras.
I suspect cycles like Linden, the Steadfast Queen and Fireborn Knight are intended to aid devotion.
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Post by Raptorchan » 1 month ago

Legend wrote:
1 month ago
hyalopterouslemur wrote:
1 month ago
...monocolor (representing the gods) and graveyard (representing the underworld). What people don't understand about the original Theros, though, is that it was primarily an aura-themed set; mechanics like devotion work better with auras than with (traditional) equipment obviously, and heroic works with auras.
I suspect cycles like Linden, the Steadfast Queen and Fireborn Knight are intended to aid devotion.
People thought the same about Dominaria AAA cycle, but this time you may be right.
Also AABB Ravnica creatures.
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