Many MTG Player's ask: Is the reserved list a load of bull?

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Post by Krishnath » 1 month ago

user_938036 wrote:
1 month ago
Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
robertleva wrote:
1 month ago
So then either they know they can make money and CHOOSE to keep the policy for reasons beyond money, or they are so out of touch that is doesn't really matter what we want.
The problem is that it is Corporate that makes the decision, and corporate is always slow to change. This is true for all corporations, if something is already profitable they don't want to rock the boat, so to speak, even if rocking the boat would lead to even more money for them. It's stagnation.
The problem is its hard or even impossible to prove that getting rid of the reserved list will lead to an increase in profit.

If they removed it and put desired cards in a masters set and sold it at $15 how is that any different from what they are currently doing without removing the reserved list.

Its not like they have tons of masters sets unsold or that they would print and thus sell tons more without the reserved list. They already limit how much premium product they sell so the idea of "here are some cards that would sell packs" is met with "ok, throw it in the pile with the rest".

There is literally no incentive to abolish the reserved list.
I can't speak for elsewhere in the world, but historically, Masters sets have been slow to sell out, I still see Double Masters available many places over here. Some of the masters sets actually sold so poorly the LGS's over here had to reduce their sell price significantly before they sold out, and it took months. There is a big difference between that and selling out before a set is released. Also, most masters sets were considerably cheaper than $15.
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Post by toctheyounger » 1 month ago

Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
user_938036 wrote:
1 month ago
Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago

The problem is that it is Corporate that makes the decision, and corporate is always slow to change. This is true for all corporations, if something is already profitable they don't want to rock the boat, so to speak, even if rocking the boat would lead to even more money for them. It's stagnation.
The problem is its hard or even impossible to prove that getting rid of the reserved list will lead to an increase in profit.

If they removed it and put desired cards in a masters set and sold it at $15 how is that any different from what they are currently doing without removing the reserved list.

Its not like they have tons of masters sets unsold or that they would print and thus sell tons more without the reserved list. They already limit how much premium product they sell so the idea of "here are some cards that would sell packs" is met with "ok, throw it in the pile with the rest".

There is literally no incentive to abolish the reserved list.
I can't speak for elsewhere in the world, but historically, Masters sets have been slow to sell out, I still see Double Masters available many places over here. Some of the masters sets actually sold so poorly the LGS's over here had to reduce their sell price significantly before they sold out, and it took months. There is a big difference between that and selling out before a set is released. Also, most masters sets were considerably cheaper than $15.
Yup here in NZ it's a mixed bag. There's a few whales about that'll buy a box or two but mostly masters sets don't sell out. One of my LGSes is currently running deals on them to move stock.

Between that and a cascading run of supply issues for the last 4-5 sets released its been a mess for my part of the world. But yeah, even with a limited print run, they clearly just don't have the formula quite right.

For myself there's tons I'd have liked to crack from double masters. But there's also more than enough dollar rates that it was nowhere near worth the expense.
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Post by Krishnath » 1 month ago

toctheyounger wrote:
1 month ago
Yup here in NZ it's a mixed bag. There's a few whales about that'll buy a box or two but mostly masters sets don't sell out. One of my LGSes is currently running deals on them to move stock.

Between that and a cascading run of supply issues for the last 4-5 sets released its been a mess for my part of the world. But yeah, even with a limited print run, they clearly just don't have the formula quite right.

For myself there's tons I'd have liked to crack from double masters. But there's also more than enough dollar rates that it was nowhere near worth the expense.
I will be completely honest, the primary reason I bought a box of double masters was because I wanted copies of most, if not all the commons and uncommons of the set, and it would be cheaper for me to buy a box than buying the cards individually and get them shipped to me, I also got a nice selection of rares and mythics, all of which I would be happy to open, so it was simply cheaper for me to do so. The draft experience was a nice bonus (and the draft was fun). But that is more of an anecdote about double masters than anything.

But that is kind of my point though. If they got rid of the reserved list, made a masters set, put in the 10 OG duals as rares in it, and sold the boosters for 15 bucks each, it would literally sell out before the set was released because of it, instead of lingering for weeks to months. It would be like they were printing money. Then they could continue further down the line by making new masters sets, throw in around a dozen high value reprints from the reserved list, and rinse and repeat. There is no way that WotC would lose money by getting rid of "The official reprint policy" due to prior art and the fact that it is a *policy* and as such they can get rid of it whenever simply by making a press release about it. Any legal action against them would be dead in the water due to the prior art, and if they got rid of it, and waited a year, it wouldn't even float. WotC literally have nothing to lose by getting rid of it, and everything to gain.
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Post by robertleva » 1 month ago

Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
toctheyounger wrote:
1 month ago
Yup here in NZ it's a mixed bag. There's a few whales about that'll buy a box or two but mostly masters sets don't sell out. One of my LGSes is currently running deals on them to move stock.

Between that and a cascading run of supply issues for the last 4-5 sets released its been a mess for my part of the world. But yeah, even with a limited print run, they clearly just don't have the formula quite right.

For myself there's tons I'd have liked to crack from double masters. But there's also more than enough dollar rates that it was nowhere near worth the expense.
I will be completely honest, the primary reason I bought a box of double masters was because I wanted copies of most, if not all the commons and uncommons of the set, and it would be cheaper for me to buy a box than buying the cards individually and get them shipped to me, I also got a nice selection of rares and mythics, all of which I would be happy to open, so it was simply cheaper for me to do so. The draft experience was a nice bonus (and the draft was fun). But that is more of an anecdote about double masters than anything.

But that is kind of my point though. If they got rid of the reserved list, made a masters set, put in the 10 OG duals as rares in it, and sold the boosters for 15 bucks each, it would literally sell out before the set was released because of it, instead of lingering for weeks to months. It would be like they were printing money. Then they could continue further down the line by making new masters sets, throw in around a dozen high value reprints from the reserved list, and rinse and repeat. There is no way that WotC would lose money by getting rid of "The official reprint policy" due to prior art and the fact that it is a *policy* and as such they can get rid of it whenever simply by making a press release about it. Any legal action against them would be dead in the water due to the prior art, and if they got rid of it, and waited a year, it wouldn't even float. WotC literally have nothing to lose by getting rid of it, and everything to gain.
Again, they likely know this are choosing to not do it for reasons beyond money. Maybe they feel the optics would be bad. Who knows what kind of ape logic makes them do the things they do.
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Post by Krishnath » 1 month ago

robertleva wrote:
1 month ago
Again, they likely know this are choosing to not do it for reasons beyond money. Maybe they feel the optics would be bad. Who knows what kind of ape logic makes them do the things they do.
Unfortunately Corporate don't know anything, if they did, they'd never have signed off on D&D 4E, the edition that almost killed the IP.
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Post by user_938036 » 1 month ago

Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
I can't speak for elsewhere in the world, but historically, Masters sets have been slow to sell out, I still see Double Masters available many places over here. Some of the masters sets actually sold so poorly the LGS's over here had to reduce their sell price significantly before they sold out, and it took months. There is a big difference between that and selling out before a set is released. Also, most masters sets were considerably cheaper than $15.
As far as I can find any evidence the only masters set to ever not do well and it still did fine was masters 25. If you see lots of masters sets sitting around in places you need to know that as far as wizards is concerned those were already sold, its the secondary seller that is waiting to move the product.

As for the significance of selling out before its shipped vs selling out over a few weeks. I don't know how significant that is or if it would actually happen. If someone could prove that, that specific market difference is significant then it would be a reason for Wizards to make a move but I suspect it isn't.

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Post by Card Slinger J » 1 month ago

I feel as though the Reserve List more or less prevents Wizards of the Coast from getting away with certain types of power creep design that would be too detrimental to MTG overall however there doesn't seem to be any real proof that it would curtail that in the happenstance that they do get rid of the Reserve List. Companion wasn't even a concept from past design off the Reserve List so what could be worse to where emergency bannings and restrictions wouldn't be enough to save the game in that kind of worst case scenario? It's definitely something to think about.

Reserve List Masters would feel too much like Wizards of the Coast trying to cash out of the MTG IP before Hasbro sold them off to a different company unless they decided to work alone again. It would be a worst case scenario in the happenstance that they completely run out of reprint equity from the game's Secondary Market to where they're absolutely desperate to turn a profit off the reprinted Reserve List cards to jump ship and move on with their lives. Perhaps the reason why they're pushing out so many Paper Magic products lately is because they're trying to rely less on In-Person Events to increase sales for Hasbro.

They've been doing this even before the pandemic where Hasbro doesn't like the LGS business model and are persuading Wizards of the Coast to move away from it to reach out to the kind of audience that plays traditional board games like Monopoly and Scrabble. The people who used to work for Wizards of the Coast who embraced the LGS business model as much as Mark Rosewater has have either retired or they don't work for the company anymore. Hasbro only cares about becoming the next Milton Bradley rather than understanding the importance of a physical location to play MTG.
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Post by motleyslayer » 1 month ago

I don't want to imagine what Magic would be like if Hasbro/WotC decided they didn't wanna do business through the LGS model anymore. They would probably have to rethink a lot of their organized play model, as a lot of Magic is played at an LGS. Not to mention how much product/supplies are bought through the LGS. I guess I could be vastly underestimating the amount of product bought from big box stores/other non LGS avenues as well as the people that just play kitchen table Magic and never play at an LGS.

I don't know how much of an impact the reserved list has on power creep. Power creep is probably a lot to do with different design philosophies, especially lately

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Post by Ardeyn » 1 month ago

Actually I don't think, anyone needs reserved list cards to play / enjoy Magic. Especially in a casual setting such as Commander.
The ABU Duals are mostly vanity. You can have a really good mana base and be "competitive" without them. Sure, there are some more unique effects like Lion's Eye Diamond that make or break a combo, but that's hardly a necessity to playing or enjoying the game. Surely, you can find another combo / deck that equally fascinates you.
Thus, for casual / Commander play I don't see why anything would need to change. I personally don't care either way.

It's a bit different for the competitive formats Legacy and Vintage, where this kind of power difference actually matters. But none is entitled to play these in any way.
I guess, these formats will just fade away and be supplanted by a No RL Eternal format in time.
Really, WotC don't have anything to lose in this regard. They will sell new cards / (high demand) Reprints for new formats that they can shape to their liking and capitalize on.

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Post by Card Slinger J » 1 month ago

Would an argument for expanding the Reserve List in order to save Local Game Stores be a valid one? Think about it. If you had a much better chance of saving your business through flipping card singles that would be worth more on the Reserve List compared to not being on the list, would you take that chance knowing that cards which have only received one printing would never be reprinted in a functionally identical form? Of course you also increase the risk of the game no longer being as accessible as it is today as you'd end up relying less on newer sealed products as you'd be making more money on card singles.

As much as I'd hate to admit it, yeah I do think the risk would be worth the reward. At the end of the day LGSs make more money off of cards that are currently losing them money within the Secondary Market, players would still have a physical location to hang out with their friends to play Paper Magic, and Wizards of the Coast would probably profit off of their Secret Lair drops more than they already are which would kind of be a double-edged sword in this type of hypothetical scenario. I just don't see how this would be a lose-lose situation. Sure EDH / Commander might become more expensive as an end result but what else?
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Post by Krishnath » 1 month ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
1 month ago
Would an argument for expanding the Reserve List in order to save Local Game Stores be a valid one? Think about it. If you had a much better chance of saving your business through flipping card singles that would be worth more on the Reserve List compared to not being on the list, would you take that chance knowing that cards which have only received one printing would never be reprinted in a functionally identical form? Of course you also increase the risk of the game no longer being as accessible as it is today as you'd end up relying less on newer sealed products as you'd be making more money on card singles.

As much as I'd hate to admit it, yeah I do think the risk would be worth the reward. At the end of the day LGSs make more money off of cards that are currently losing them money within the Secondary Market, players would still have a physical location to hang out with their friends to play Paper Magic, and Wizards of the Coast would probably profit off of their Secret Lair drops more than they already are which would kind of be a double-edged sword in this type of hypothetical scenario. I just don't see how this would be a lose-lose situation. Sure EDH / Commander might become more expensive as an end result but what else?
You are starting to sound somewhat like a certain someone over on youtube. The reserved list should not be expanded, ever. It harms the eternal formats by its mere existence, and making it even more restrictive will harm the game even further.
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Post by toctheyounger » 1 month ago

Ardeyn wrote:
1 month ago
The ABU Duals are mostly vanity. You can have a really good mana base and be "competitive" without them. Sure, there are some more unique effects like Lion's Eye Diamond that make or break a combo, but that's hardly a necessity to playing or enjoying the game. Surely, you can find another combo / deck that equally fascinates you.
Thus, for casual / Commander play I don't see why anything would need to change. I personally don't care either way.
I don't believe they are just vanity. They are mostly comparable to shocks, which is fine except when someone runs shocks and ABUR's and you don't. It's fighting uphill to win instead of a level playing field and that's tough. They make shocks demonstrably better too.

Aside from the duals, there's plenty of utility in the RL I'd love to have access to for mutliple decks. Mishra's Workshop, Bazaar of Baghdad, Diamond Valley, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Gaea's Cradle, Serra's Sanctum...and that's just lands.

Like, I get it, we've got plenty of options these days, but that doesn't discount that it sucks being on the have not side of this discussion purely because you were too young to buy when the game was in its fledgling years, especially when these are played against you regularly, and they're very, very good and are simply not available to you.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 1 month ago

Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
Card Slinger J wrote:
1 month ago
Would an argument for expanding the Reserve List in order to save Local Game Stores be a valid one? Think about it. If you had a much better chance of saving your business through flipping card singles that would be worth more on the Reserve List compared to not being on the list, would you take that chance knowing that cards which have only received one printing would never be reprinted in a functionally identical form? Of course you also increase the risk of the game no longer being as accessible as it is today as you'd end up relying less on newer sealed products as you'd be making more money on card singles.

As much as I'd hate to admit it, yeah I do think the risk would be worth the reward. At the end of the day LGSs make more money off of cards that are currently losing them money within the Secondary Market, players would still have a physical location to hang out with their friends to play Paper Magic, and Wizards of the Coast would probably profit off of their Secret Lair drops more than they already are which would kind of be a double-edged sword in this type of hypothetical scenario. I just don't see how this would be a lose-lose situation. Sure EDH / Commander might become more expensive as an end result but what else?
You are starting to sound somewhat like a certain someone over on youtube. The reserved list should not be expanded, ever. It harms the eternal formats by its mere existence, and making it even more restrictive will harm the game even further.
Why are you accusing me of plagiarism all the sudden? Ironically enough If it hadn't been for the Reserve List we probably would've never had been introduced to MTG. Then again maybe MTG should've faded into obscurity in the mid-late 90s much like it's competition because the market itself is too crowded for them to even co-exist in the first place though they probably didn't expect Yu-Gi-Oh! and Pokémon to create the kind of resurgence for the Paper Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game genre that it did in the late 90s early 2000s. When the Singles Market became a much bigger deal than sealed product over time Local Game Stores are now more than ever having to jump through hoops to help satisfy consumer demand without having to pay into a lottery system with more time constraints. As an end result it's causing these potential customers to purchase elsewhere simply because these stores are making less money on niche products that don't fly off the shelves as much.

If MTG is old enough to be an antique collectible from a bygone era then what does that say about Paper Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games as a whole in 2020? What does that say about all the cardboard wasted on this genre when the companies behind these games are only looking for short-term gains instead of actually putting in the work to compete against MTG? They've already done all they could over the last couple decades so unless your card game is either Yu-Gi-Oh! or Pokémon, you're not getting a piece of the pie. You can't have multiple Secondary Markets per Paper Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game and not expect some kind of retraction with how much of these products in terms of buying / selling Singles that Local Game Stores are able to handle. The amount of inventory they're able to carry is dependent on the stores' overhead and geography. They have to expand their business portfolio to accommodate products needed to stay in business.
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Post by Krishnath » 1 month ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
1 month ago
Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
Card Slinger J wrote:
1 month ago
Would an argument for expanding the Reserve List in order to save Local Game Stores be a valid one? Think about it. If you had a much better chance of saving your business through flipping card singles that would be worth more on the Reserve List compared to not being on the list, would you take that chance knowing that cards which have only received one printing would never be reprinted in a functionally identical form? Of course you also increase the risk of the game no longer being as accessible as it is today as you'd end up relying less on newer sealed products as you'd be making more money on card singles.

As much as I'd hate to admit it, yeah I do think the risk would be worth the reward. At the end of the day LGSs make more money off of cards that are currently losing them money within the Secondary Market, players would still have a physical location to hang out with their friends to play Paper Magic, and Wizards of the Coast would probably profit off of their Secret Lair drops more than they already are which would kind of be a double-edged sword in this type of hypothetical scenario. I just don't see how this would be a lose-lose situation. Sure EDH / Commander might become more expensive as an end result but what else?
You are starting to sound somewhat like a certain someone over on youtube. The reserved list should not be expanded, ever. It harms the eternal formats by its mere existence, and making it even more restrictive will harm the game even further.
Why are you accusing me of plagiarism all the sudden? Ironically enough If it hadn't been for the Reserve List we probably would've never had been introduced to MTG. Then again maybe MTG should've faded into obscurity in the mid-late 90s much like it's competition because the market itself is too crowded for them to even co-exist in the first place though they probably didn't expect Yu-Gi-Oh! and Pokémon to create the kind of resurgence for the Paper Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game genre that it did in the late 90s early 2000s. When the Singles Market became a much bigger deal than sealed product over time Local Game Stores are now more than ever having to jump through hoops to help satisfy consumer demand without having to pay into a lottery system with more time constraints. As an end result it's causing these potential customers to purchase elsewhere simply because these stores are making less money on niche products that don't fly off the shelves as much.

If MTG is old enough to be an antique collectible from a bygone era then what does that say about Paper Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games as a whole in 2020? What does that say about all the cardboard wasted on this genre when the companies behind these games are only looking for short-term gains instead of actually putting in the work to compete against MTG? They've already done all they could over the last couple decades so unless your card game is either Yu-Gi-Oh! or Pokémon, you're not getting a piece of the pie. You can't have multiple Secondary Markets per Paper Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game and not expect some kind of retraction with how much of these products in terms of buying / selling Singles that Local Game Stores are able to handle. The amount of inventory they're able to carry is dependent on the stores' overhead and geography. They have to expand their business portfolio to accommodate products needed to stay in business.
I have not accused you of plagiarism at all. I was merely saying that you started to sound like an individual on youtube who has come with the same arguments that the reserved list should be expanded, and I assume that unlike you, he has a vested interest in maintaining and expanding the reserved list because he is not a player and never has been, but a collectible speculator and resaler. He doesn't care about the longevity of the game, only about profits.

There is no logical argument for expanding or maintaining the reserved list outside of greed, and that is not a logical argument either. It's mere existence is harmful to the game overall. To build a competitive deck in the eternal formats, one would need to spend more money on cards than most people make in a month, possibly several months. It is, quite literally, insane. As long as the reserved list persists, the eternal formats are suffering from a slow and lingering death. It was never the players that pushed for the reserved list in the first place, and that is a big friggin problem, and one of the *many* reasons it should be abolished. Anyone who cares about the game, at all, should want to see it removed.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 1 month ago

Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
I have not accused you of plagiarism at all. I was merely saying that you started to sound like an individual on youtube who has come with the same arguments that the reserved list should be expanded, and I assume that unlike you, he has a vested interest in maintaining and expanding the reserved list because he is not a player and never has been, but a collectible speculator and resaler. He doesn't care about the longevity of the game, only about profits.

There is no logical argument for expanding or maintaining the reserved list outside of greed, and that is not a logical argument either. It's mere existence is harmful to the game overall. To build a competitive deck in the eternal formats, one would need to spend more money on cards than most people make in a month, possibly several months. It is, quite literally, insane. As long as the reserved list persists, the eternal formats are suffering from a slow and lingering death. It was never the players that pushed for the reserved list in the first place, and that is a big friggin problem, and one of the *many* reasons it should be abolished. Anyone who cares about the game, at all, should want to see it removed.
As someone whose been playing Paper Magic since Onslaught and 8th Edition I was against the Reserve List for a very long time but now that the Local Game Store has become increasingly reliant of it as of late after Wizards of the Coast cut all support for them to move to Digital with Direct-to-Consumer products via Secret Lair, it's no wonder how desperate these stores are for cash flow. Wizards of the Coast is unable to increase prize support for events when they can't even be held at LGSs due to the pandemic, they refuse to sell directly to Local Game Stores via bypassing distributors let alone support more formats aside from EDH / Commander because they feel there's just no money to be made, not to mention that they have no desire to create products specifically for WPN locations cause it would single out LGSs that aren't certified even though it would help send a signal to Wizards of the Coast not to support discounted big box retailers like Walmart and Target over Local Game Stores where they make less money.

The Local Game Store (LGS) needs to change from being the place to "purchase cards" to being the place to "play with your friends". Unfortunately most stores are run by people who wanted to make their hobby a profession which is why a lot of amateurs run these businesses and are incapable of adjusting to the changed environment especially after COVID. A lot of LGSs in Europe sell more sealed products than card singles. While the stores that invest in mass openings of product and selling singles do exist, the market doesn't allow too many of them to exist. Flipping sealed product is much easier than flipping singles. Price tagging each card and the work to handle all the stock and the entire time is just too valuable especially with the risk of theft and online scammers where you pay money for a product only to find that it's a counterfeit. I've actually been scammed a few times on eBay with the cards either never arriving in the mail on time or they end up being fake.
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Post by toctheyounger » 1 month ago

I'm not sure I see how LGSes are reliant on the RL, could you expand on that for me? If it's selling top tier product in singles, I don't know that that's what keeps an LGS afloat. I know my regular LGS has plenty of RL stock, but as someone who lusts after it without the means to acquire it I can tell you it doesn't move quickly or easily.

It might be aside from the wider discussion, but LGSes really need to know their clientele to stay afloat. There's one nearer to me in a central city location that displays cabinet singles - they're more or less RL stock, foiled staples and premium singles where possible. And they move that stock because they have customers with expensive tastes come in on the regular, and that's predominantly how they keep the MtG side of the business afloat. Everything else they either haven't kept or is in crates to dig for. My more regular LGS out in the suburbs is a completely different store. He has an online catalogue, stocks singles from recent standard uncommons through to a reasonable range of RL/premium stock, but it's far from a boutique store. He keeps himself afloat with an incredibly active community with regular drafts of the latest sets, Modern and Pioneer leagues, commander most days and a rock-solid reputation for reasonable prices and friendly service. Both are amazing stores in their own right, but they're both very different in terms of customer profile and units sold. And both have survived, thrived and kept afloat through the pandemic by knowing their target customers and catering to them.

It seems to me that a lot of folk who want to open an LGS don't really know what they're in for. You could probably expect to take a hobby you enjoy and easily halve that enjoyment once your doors open, and it's not as simple as just having a lot of cards. Retail very rarely is. There's an art to it, and it's not for everyone. Now in terms of the pandemic, I've said it before and it holds true, at least where I live; the majority of businesses that have capitulated due to lockdown measures have done so because their business plan was not as solid as they presumed it would be, or their timing was bad. It's tough on a lot of people, but the businesses that have done their homework and prepared to weather the storm have survived. It's just exposed businesses that were probably fairly flimsy to start with for what they were. That might seem harsh, but I've seen it with both of these stores - they both diversified their businesses during lockdown to survive, and again, both in different ways.

Relating all of that back to the RL.....I honestly don't see where the link is. We've already established that it's pretty unlikely were the RL to be abolished that it would affect pricing of RL staples in terms of a downturn, so I'm really not sure how that relates back to a grassroots store.
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Post by Krishnath » 1 month ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
1 month ago
Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
I have not accused you of plagiarism at all. I was merely saying that you started to sound like an individual on youtube who has come with the same arguments that the reserved list should be expanded, and I assume that unlike you, he has a vested interest in maintaining and expanding the reserved list because he is not a player and never has been, but a collectible speculator and resaler. He doesn't care about the longevity of the game, only about profits.

There is no logical argument for expanding or maintaining the reserved list outside of greed, and that is not a logical argument either. It's mere existence is harmful to the game overall. To build a competitive deck in the eternal formats, one would need to spend more money on cards than most people make in a month, possibly several months. It is, quite literally, insane. As long as the reserved list persists, the eternal formats are suffering from a slow and lingering death. It was never the players that pushed for the reserved list in the first place, and that is a big friggin problem, and one of the *many* reasons it should be abolished. Anyone who cares about the game, at all, should want to see it removed.
As someone whose been playing Paper Magic since Onslaught and 8th Edition I was against the Reserve List for a very long time but now that the Local Game Store has become increasingly reliant of it as of late after Wizards of the Coast cut all support for them to move to Digital with Direct-to-Consumer products via Secret Lair, it's no wonder how desperate these stores are for cash flow. Wizards of the Coast is unable to increase prize support for events when they can't even be held at LGSs due to the pandemic, they refuse to sell directly to Local Game Stores via bypassing distributors let alone support more formats aside from EDH / Commander because they feel there's just no money to be made, not to mention that they have no desire to create products specifically for WPN locations cause it would single out LGSs that aren't certified even though it would help send a signal to Wizards of the Coast not to support discounted big box retailers like Walmart and Target over Local Game Stores where they make less money.

The Local Game Store (LGS) needs to change from being the place to "purchase cards" to being the place to "play with your friends". Unfortunately most stores are run by people who wanted to make their hobby a profession which is why a lot of amateurs run these businesses and are incapable of adjusting to the changed environment especially after COVID. A lot of LGSs in Europe sell more sealed products than card singles. While the stores that invest in mass openings of product and selling singles do exist, the market doesn't allow too many of them to exist. Flipping sealed product is much easier than flipping singles. Price tagging each card and the work to handle all the stock and the entire time is just too valuable especially with the risk of theft and online scammers where you pay money for a product only to find that it's a counterfeit. I've actually been scammed a few times on eBay with the cards either never arriving in the mail on time or they end up being fake.
But that is just it, the reserved list does not help LGS's at all, the cards that are desirable on it are so rare and so desirable that nearly no one can afford to buy them. And as has been proven by the humble Shivan Dragon, a card not on the reserved list, a card who in its latest printing is nearly worthless, is still worth SEVERAL THOUSAND DOLLARS in it's OG printing. Which blows the main argument used by collectors out of the water, namely that reprinting cards from the reserved list would devalue the original printings.

No one who cares about the game at all should argue for the the expansion of the reserved list, and indeed should have an interest in getting rid of it. A reprint of the original duals, but in the new frame and with new art would actually *help* the secondary market because everyone who wants to play the eternal formats would want them, not to mention just about every commander player.

A new printing of cards from the reserved list would also put a massive dent in the counterfit market.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 1 month ago

toctheyounger wrote:
1 month ago
I'm not sure I see how LGSes are reliant on the RL, could you expand on that for me? If it's selling top tier product in singles, I don't know that that's what keeps an LGS afloat. I know my regular LGS has plenty of RL stock, but as someone who lusts after it without the means to acquire it I can tell you it doesn't move quickly or easily.
I think it's more along the lines of LGSs being too reliant on people within their local communities who own Reserve List cards that are willing to sell to the store so they can buy them back later as long as they're able to afford it. One of my friends did this awhile back where he sold a $200+ Lion's Eye Diamond at the LGS near my house though he might of sold a playset for $800 and bought the cards back later taking advantage of the Secondary Market. Some of my other friends did this same method with non-Reserve List cards except they sometimes ended up getting bought out by other customers especially with reprints being made for them.

At the other LGS I go to on Saturdays I've rarely ever seen this take place anymore especially since they no longer have older Paper Magic cards in their retail area showcase due to the ongoing pandemic. They figured the newer cards would have a lower risk of contracting COVID-19 than older cards which surprisingly hasn't stopped them from receiving Buylist orders from customers who're needing the store credit to support the store. They still sell older Paper Magic singles, they just won't display them due to COVID-19 protocols. Not sure If the other LGS I go to is like that since I haven't been down there for 6 months.
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Post by motleyslayer » 1 month ago

The main store I go to is pretty reluctant to buy a lot of reserved list cards such as duals and whatnot. This is because it's so hard to move them in a smaller area, even if you have an online store to post on. The store that will buy higher end cards does so because the owner and one of his employees will often work at GPs/Magic Fests so it's easier to move them

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Post by Card Slinger J » 1 month ago

motleyslayer wrote:
1 month ago
The main store I go to is pretty reluctant to buy a lot of reserved list cards such as duals and whatnot. This is because it's so hard to move them in a smaller area, even if you have an online store to post on. The store that will buy higher end cards does so because the owner and one of his employees will often work at GPs/Magic Fests so it's easier to move them
That's because people who attend these big events hosted by ChannelFireball and Star City Games are self-made millionaires who followed the same model Rudy from Alpha Investments made to profit off of the Reserve List in order to afford buying more of them as opposed to customers at Local Game Stores who make less money by working paycheck-to-paycheck where buying higher end Reserve List cards are nowhere within their monetary budget.

No one is going to save their hard earned money to buy expensive Reserve List cards when they can get more for less through non-Reserve List cards that Local Game Stores provide. Who'd be crazy enough to buy a $1,000+ Reserve List single on an eBay auction just to find out that it was a Chinese counterfeit? The pandemic has made it even more difficult to obtain Reserve List cards unless you're lucky enough to run into someone at an LGS that has them for trade / sell.
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Post by Krishnath » 1 week ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
1 month ago
That's because people who attend these big events hosted by ChannelFireball and Star City Games are self-made millionaires who followed the same model Rudy from Alpha Investments made to profit off of the Reserve List in order to afford buying more of them as opposed to customers at Local Game Stores who make less money by working paycheck-to-paycheck where buying higher end Reserve List cards are nowhere within their monetary budget.
Ding! And that is one of the reasons why it needs to be abolished, the majority of the people who are vested in it continuing to exist (or in at least Rudy's case want it to be expanded) are only in it for the money. They are not in it for the health of the game, at all. They want to make money, which is understandable, but they want to do it at the expense of the game they claim to support.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 1 week ago

They may be only in it for the money however I'd like to think that it inspired these people to own and operate their own LGSs but not the Rudy from Alpha Investments business model that doesn't provide In-Store Play. I get why Rudy's model is more convenient as someone who owns and operates their own retail business without any co-workers while at the same time defeats the purpose of why people rely on a physical location to play Paper Magic: The Social Aspect.

I get the argument for why some LGS owners want to increase their profit margins by replacing play space for merchandise when it's really dependent on how big their business portfolio is. Unfortunately Paper Magic doesn't make as much money for an LGS as Lego toys and Funko Pops do which seems to be the biggest collectible fad since Beanie Babies back in the late 90's. I used to collect Beanie Babies before coming to the conclusion that it was all a scam the entire time.
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Post by Krishnath » 1 week ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
1 week ago
I get the argument for why some LGS owners want to increase their profit margins by replacing play space for merchandise when it's really dependent on how big their business portfolio is. Unfortunately Paper Magic doesn't make as much money for an LGS as Lego toys and Funko Pops do which seems to be the biggest collectible fad since Beanie Babies back in the late 90's. I used to collect Beanie Babies before coming to the conclusion that it was all a scam the entire time.
The reserved list doesn't increase their profit margins as very few people can actually afford the desirable cards from it due to the insane prices of them, so it is an incredible risk for any secondary market seller of MTG cards to acquire one of those cards as it is a significant investment with little to no guarantee that they can resell it. It is literally near impossible for an LGS to make money of cards on the reserved list.

As for Funko Pops, I am of the belief that they will eventually fall out of favor, just like the Beanie Babies did.
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